[TV] WandaVision

[Nerraw]

Apparently the writer/director loved the mandarin twist in iron man 3....

Hes one of those "playing with expectations" type

Let us pray he never works with rian Johnson. The internet would collapse from the disapointment

I laughed my ass off with the Iron Man 3 thing.

[TrollHunter3000]

I think you're just trying too hard to defend your idea here.

Strange couldn't have told half the Avengers because he never even saw them between the time that he looked ahead and the time he was snapped away.

He didn't tell the ones that were there, because the fight started before he could anyway.

He wouldn't tell them too many specifics anyway, because of "if I tell you, it won't happen".

Bottom line being that "Strange knew it wouldn't work!" can only really explain away a very small handful of actions. It's definitely not a catch-all for, "Why didn't X do Y?"

I don't think he's arguing that they didn't try something else because Strange knew it wouldn't work. They certainly could have tried many other things and it would have been one of the 14000605 alternate timelines Strange saw. We just happen to see the one where things worked out opposed to one of the ones where things didn't work out. So, if someone asks "why didn't they just do X?" Well, they likely did in another possible timeline but it failed.

I do wish they chose a better number though honestly. Mathematically speaking, if Strange saw all possible timelines then we can actually factor that number to 5*5*17*9689. This suggests there is at most only 4 pivotal moments that lead up to this moment where they win with each of these moments having some number of outcomes equal to the product of a combination of these numbers. For instance, if we roll a 6 sided die and flip a coin then we have 2*6=12 possible outcomes that are decided from two events. Of course, there many events that have no real impact for this moment but they definitely could have chosen a more mathematically logical value such as product of a few dozen smaller primes.

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Do you think the ending was supposed to parallel when Thanos secluded himself after doing the snap?

Now I'm wondering if some super hero like Captain Marvel will find Wanda and kill her for what she did to the people of Westview.

weird take

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Potential spoiler for upcoming stuff:
Apparently the actors who played Wanda’s kids are currently in London... which coincidentally is where Doctor Strange 2 is currently being filmed.

why you stalking kids bruh

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I thought the season was great but got worse as the mystery was kinda resolving and the last episode felt like a dud because aside from the 90% action, they didn't really do anything super interesting with the plot either.

Biggest failure to me was how they handled Quicksilver. I'm not mad about it because they didn't go the fan theory route or whatever, but they could have made so many interesting things with that (hence the fan theories to begin with) and they decided that the most satisfying resolution to Fox-Quicksilver in the MCU was a boner joke. I hope whoever came up with that got fired.

I also think it's pretty fucked like Wanda barely even questioned why the fuck her brother looked completely different. Even if he ended up being Quicksilver from Fox alternate dimension that's still a dumb as fuck plot hole. I do think it could still go that route though. Maybe he did somehow end up coming from a different dimension and Shield/Sword knew that or some shit and put him in "witness protection" to keep tabs on him. Who the fuck knows anymore

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It's bit of both from me, her actress is appalling, though I'm not a fan of the character either, she is constantly portrayed as being invincible meanwhile gods such as Thor get downed by a taser. Would be nice to see her powers have limits like the other heroes, even taking a direct blast from an infinity stone barely phased her (while a combined captain and Thor struggled to attack normal Thanos)

I mean, she she got her power from an infinity stone so

[Syegfryed]

The only thing i didn't like the show was the Raplh Bohner/pietro thing, was just a gag from the villain, i rly, rly, wished it was her brother, cause i damn hate the one from avengers, rly, dying by bullets was the lamest thing ever, and the one from X-man is just better, would be soo good to introduce the x-man in the MCU somehow, with i dunno, even a peitro from a different timeline would be enough to me.

[s_bushido]

would be soo good to introduce the x-man in the MCU somehow

While I agree that the Pietro thing turned out to be disappointing, I don't think it would be a good idea for them to just import the existing X-Men movie universe into the MCU. There's just too much baggage and mediocre nonsense there for it to be interesting. I'd much rather they do it themselves (and do it properly)...though I'm not opposed to using the multiverse idea to give the old stuff nods or easter eggs.

[Syegfryed]

While I agree that the Pietro thing turned out to be disappointing, I don't think it would be a good idea for them to just import the existing X-Men movie universe into the MCU. There's just too much baggage and mediocre nonsense there for it to be interesting. I'd much rather they do it themselves (and do it properly)...though I'm not opposed to using the multiverse idea to give the old stuff nods or easter eggs.

there is much baggage and mediocre nonsense, but there is some good things, like Pietro itself.

I don't think they should import the x-men movies, into the MCU, but bringing the characters, into the universe, then, making their own movies as part of the MCU, with the idea of multiverse is an excellent idea.

Just say like this Pietro came from a multiverse where his Wanda died instead, and now they kind of a broken relationship of brother and sister.

Like, i don't know if they will do it, but if the next spider man movie does not have the other spider mans will be a lot disappointing, and that could solidify the concept of multiverse and multiple characters in the MCU easily

[formerShandalay]

While I agree that the Pietro thing turned out to be disappointing, I don't think it would be a good idea for them to just import the existing X-Men movie universe into the MCU. There's just too much baggage and mediocre nonsense there for it to be interesting. I'd much rather they do it themselves (and do it properly)...though I'm not opposed to using the multiverse idea to give the old stuff nods or easter eggs.

I thought he may have been put into Westview by the TVA (as that is going to come into play with Loki) as Peter from the multiverse. Like that they'd not have to really acknowledge the X-men films at all and still have Evan Peter's Peter Maximoff in the MCU.

Although now I still think he's going to be a version of Wonderman and Ralph Boner was his witness-protection alias. He chose it himself, because he thought it was funny at the time... judging from the headshot he was still very young when he had to take on that role
I simply do not think that 'just another guy from the neighbourhood' would go with Monica, Darcy and the twins to investigate Agatha's horror-basement after having been a mindslave for the witch that set up said basement and having been blasted by Wanda and punched by Monica. That seems a lot more ballsy than the rest of Westview.

[Ophenia]

Just say like this Pietro came from a multiverse where his Wanda died instead, and now they kind of a broken relationship of brother and sister.

The main problem with that, is that timelines are all fucked up. It would be "straight" multiverse but also time travel bullshit, as X-Men's Quicksilver is a lot older than MCU's Wanda. DOFP happens in 1973. Quicksilver in 2023 would be 60 years old, at least.

[Nerraw]

The main problem with that, is that timelines are all fucked up. It would be "straight" multiverse but also time travel bullshit, as X-Men's Quicksilver is a lot older than MCU's Wanda. DOFP happens in 1973. Quicksilver in 2023 would be 60 years old, at least.

Well, that kind of time-traveling was confirmed with Endgame. So that exists in the MCU already at least.

[rhorle]

The main problem with that, is that timelines are all fucked up. It would be "straight" multiverse but also time travel bullshit, as X-Men's Quicksilver is a lot older than MCU's Wanda. DOFP happens in 1973. Quicksilver in 2023 would be 60 years old, at least.

The two timelines don't have to match up or happen at the same time. Their 1973 could be happening at the same as the MCU 2023. Days of Future Past also involved time travel. So it could be time travel, it could be "stuck outside of time", some how stopped aging, or any number of other comic book explanations.

[solinari6]

So I was stoned when I watched this, and I must have missed something .... can someone explain where Albino Vision came from?

[KingSapmi]

So I was stoned when I watched this, and I must have missed something .... can someone explain where Albino Vision came from?

He's the original "corpse" of Vision that was killed by Thanos during Infinity War. S.W.O.R.D. brought his corpse to Wanda's funky magical energy and he popped alive that way. The Vision inside Wanda's "hex" is simply a creation by her, made from memory of Vision. So basically, white Albino Vision is the real Vision.

[solinari6]

He's the original "corpse" of Vision that was killed by Thanos during Infinity War. S.W.O.R.D. brought his corpse to Wanda's funky magical energy and he popped alive that way. The Vision inside Wanda's "hex" is simply a creation by her, made from memory of Vision. So basically, white Albino Vision is the real Vision.

ah, ok, that makes sense

[Endus]

He's the original "corpse" of Vision that was killed by Thanos during Infinity War. S.W.O.R.D. brought his corpse to Wanda's funky magical energy and he popped alive that way. The Vision inside Wanda's "hex" is simply a creation by her, made from memory of Vision. So basically, white Albino Vision is the real Vision.

This is actually one of the best/smartest bits of the finale. The whole Ship of Theseus thing. And I mean "smart" in an "accurate rendition of fairly complex philosophy of identity" sense, not just "good narrative" sense.

As they broke it down, imagine a museum that has the Ship of Theseus on display, but the Ship is falling apart and decaying. As it decays, the museum replaces boards that fall apart. Over time, every board is eventually replaced. Is it still the Ship of Theseus? If yes, does identity have nothing to do with its original parts? If no, can we say which board was the critical one that meant the Ship was no longer the Ship of Theseus, but something else? If we restored the original boards and re-assembled them, is that the Ship of Theseus, even though there's another one in the museum that's always been seen as the Ship? These aren't questions that expect answers, which is why White Vision answers them with a paradox; the "new" Ship both is and is not the Ship of Theseus.

This is the entire point of the scene. Wanda's vision is a simulacrum, built anew in the image of the original. He's not the "real Vision". White Vision is made up of the refurbished "boards" of the original Vision. But doesn't carry any continuity with that individual, lacking any memories or personality carryover. He's also not the "real vision". Two Visions, both realizing that neither of them is the "real Vision". This is a problem for White Vision, since it's essentially a computer with a simple command; "Kill the Vision". No Vision, no target. This is (probably) what makes it open to Wanda's Vision's argument about memory being the source of identity proper; in the Ship analogy, this would be that each new board added to repair the original becomes a part of the Ship of Theseus by doing so, and any part removed ceases to be, and the continuity of the ship itself is tied to the continuity of that structure, rather than the originality of any parts.

And that's when Wanda's Vision unlocks those trapped memories, and what used to be White Vision leaves.

And I say "what used to be" for a very clear reason; the eyes. We see White Vision's eyes become human again before he leaves. What we have now is a body that has continuity with being Vision, and a mind that has all of Vision's memories. This is Vision. The original. The actual. This isn't a recreation; he's the real thing. The white color probably won't last long; we saw Vision changing his look/color/suit pretty much within 30 seconds of being "born". Why'd he leave rather than helping Wanda? If I had to venture a guess, one of two reasons that could both be true; the first is that the memories had just been unlocked; it would take some time to put them in order and make sense of himself again. It'll take some time (probably not more than a day or two) to fully come back to himself, if this is the case, though there may also be some adjustments made or some acknowledgements to things like "remembering that one used to love someone is not the same as being in love with them" to create drama with Wanda. The second, that "kill the Vision" command might still be active. Bugging out to deal with the forced-suicidal-ideation thing kinda makes sense.

A lot of this philosophy went by SUPER fast in the show, so I thought it might be helpful to see some of it written out.

[Syegfryed]

The main problem with that, is that timelines are all fucked up. It would be "straight" multiverse but also time travel bullshit, as X-Men's Quicksilver is a lot older than MCU's Wanda. DOFP happens in 1973. Quicksilver in 2023 would be 60 years old, at least.

i don't have any problem with that rly, it would be even funnier seeing how they react different

[eschatological]

The main problem with that, is that timelines are all fucked up. It would be "straight" multiverse but also time travel bullshit, as X-Men's Quicksilver is a lot older than MCU's Wanda. DOFP happens in 1973. Quicksilver in 2023 would be 60 years old, at least.

I didn't watch Dark Phoenix or Apocalypse, but wasn't Quicksilver in those movies too? Did those take place in the 70s?

I remember at the end of DOFP, Logan is "teleported" back to the present where Scott and Storm and Jean Grey are alive again, but my understanding was that he was back in normal time.

[rhorle]

I didn't watch Dark Phoenix or Apocalypse, but wasn't Quicksilver in those movies too? Did those take place in the 70s?

Apocalypse took place in 1983. Dark Phoenix took place in 1992. Both had Quicksilver in them.

[eschatological]

Apocalypse took place in 1983. Dark Phoenix took place in 1992. Both had Quicksilver in them.

Did they do anything to visibly age him? I've seen the Mansion scene on YouTube, he looks fairly the same age, but that might be because Evan Peters wasn't a teenager, but playing one in DOFP.

[cyberglum]

Did they do anything to visibly age him? I've seen the Mansion scene on YouTube, he looks fairly the same age, but that might be because Evan Peters wasn't a teenager, but playing one in DOFP.

They've admitted the ages of the characters in the recent movies doesn't make any sense. Nicholas Hoult's Hank McCoy doesn't seem to visibily age between 1962 (First Class) and 1992 (Dark Phoenix).

[Jotaux]

Did they do anything to visibly age him? I've seen the Mansion scene on YouTube, he looks fairly the same age, but that might be because Evan Peters wasn't a teenager, but playing one in DOFP.

The aging in the xmen movies is crazy, Look at Fasbender, he turns into Ian McKellen in 8 years from Dark Pheonix to the first Xmen film.

[Kallisto]

The aging in the xmen movies is crazy, Look at Fasbender, he turns into Ian McKellen in 8 years from Dark Pheonix to the first Xmen film.

Hell we can just remember xmen 3 and look at the scene where Eric and Charles talked to a young Jean. Even with the digital deaging McKellen and Stewart still looked older then than the actors in Apocalypse or Dark Phoenix.