[TV] WandaVision

[Nerraw]

What I meant is that she has the exact same face at 20 (Cap 1) than 30 years later (Endgame).

I need to rewatch Endgame, but I remember her looking at least somewhat aged up for that.

[Stardrift]

None of the roles were given because of the color of their skin or their gender though. Nor are the roles in the show all about the color of their skin. You are the one that keeps making a big deal about that topic but seem to be self aware enough to not actually commit to the bullshit race arguments you keep trying to make.

- - - Updated - - -



Lol. What are you even talking about? Characters of color can only have a non-white enemy other wise it is racist? That is just dumb. Marvel hasn't even done "only white villans" so I'm not every sure where you think you are getting a atom of legitimacy to that type of argument.

Sounds like you're entirely aware of it, you just enjoy it because you're a self loathing whitey

Infracted.

[Nerraw]

Aged up for 1949?

What? She's in 1970 when Cap and Tony visit the SHIELD base to get the Tesseract and more Pym particles.

[Koriani]

Tv shows, comics, movies - all sorts of entertainment media 'skips over' timelines and aging characters whenever its convenient. There's already xmen/mutants who age differently (even without infinity stones and multi-verse logic) so it would be nothing IMO for them to ret-con a character's abilities to include "slow aging" if they so desired. I mean hell, we're talking about buying into multiverses here so why the idea of someone's age not matching the right universe's timeline as what people get stuck on (?) - makes no sense to me. It doesn't even require them to spend more than a vague sentence of someone commenting, "Mutants age weird" to explain it all for every single character. This is not an issue as far as the writers are concerned, I'm sure.

Just throwing this theory out there - not saying I even believe it - but it is another theory as to the whole Wanda is/isn't in charge of "The Hex" stuff and may also be an explanation for some of this.

The idea that not only is Wanda "not the only one in control" (which I agree with also) but she's also not even fully aware of what's going on herself. Now - keeping in mind the devolving of the entire "Hex" setup for the people 'inside the hex' from episode 1 to 5 - but what if that's also what's going on with Wanda. That while she is responsible for *some* of what's going on, she was also (at least some of the time) just as "blind" as Vision to this not being actual reality. That she was more "lost" herself in the alternate-hex-reality and, as the episodes have continued, is now more and more waking up. Kinda like Vision 'waking up' more and more as the episodes continue, she just started the process a few episodes ahead of him.

I'm not saying she's not a 'part' of creating that reality, as yes she clearly is. But that she believes she's more aware and more in charge of it all than she really is. That whatever OTHER is out there also (at least partially) controlling the reality of the Hex - they also (at least temporarily) convinced Wanda of that reality as well. She started 'breaking out' faster (or perhaps becoming more overtly conscious instead of unconscious), but, at least for awhile, bought 100% into it the same as Vision in the first couple of episodes.

I hope I explained that right.

I just keep going back to the feel that when "real reality" first started breaking through, Wanda didn't just act or look like it frustrated her and she needed to fix it - she looked and acted genuinely confused. Not "How the Hell..." but "What the Hell..." is going on. Yes, because at least some of this is her creation, she is able to 'fix' it each time so that its back to what she supposedly wants - but what if she's brainwashed (so to speak) to believe this is what she wants; when it really isn't.

As others have mentioned - she didn't remember the SWORD logo. Not just "I see that and I need to hide it!" But more of the "this is familiar but I don't know why..." Upon figuring it out she reverts to the expected, "get out", but doesn't seem phased by her initial confusion and non-recognition. Same with her brother. She isn't going to recast her brother as a different person. She didn't recast a Dead Vision. But neither would anyone just accept some random stranger as "their brother." Have to wait and see if she really does act 'convinced' this is Peitro vs. suspicious, but at least initially, there was no recognition.

It felt with the radio (to me) she wasn't reacting in a "oh the outside world is breaking through and I need to snap my fingers and fix it quick!" it was more of a, "What could that possibly be?" expression of confusion that took her longer than it should to 'fix' it. If you already know you're in an alternate reality of your own creation and you know you're trying to block the outside world, seems to me you'd not wait for multiple static words to break through but you'd *immediately* address it. If someone's sitting at your dinner table repeating phrases like a stuck AI - you wouldn't wait 6 phrases before fixing it - unless you honestly didn't know wth was going on to begin with.

Again, loose theory - but some of these details make sense from that PoV. Each time the world has gone wonky (before episode 5) she spends a few seconds being confused as to what is going on; as if she herself is waking up from a dream (caused by someone else), before fixing the issue and putting her reality back in place.

Brainwashing isn't the right term or anything, but its hard for me to find that right word. We're talking about someone who, at least on the conscious level, thinks she's 100% in control and this is her wish and her reality. But its possible that the Matrix is Inside Another Matrix so to speak. That what she thinks is her conscious decision - actually isn't. That yes, she intended to get Vision and 'bring him back' but turning Westview into a 50s sitcom for her to live in (or whatever) isn't what she intended at all - but now *believes* is what she intended.

eh, maybe that makes sense or not. Its hard to explain that unconscious/conscious meta-inside-a-meta with all this. But TLDR - maybe Vision isn't the only one 'waking up' in this reality.

[Ophenia]

And what if all this shit is happening because of the Infinity Stones "reduced to atoms" in this timeline ?
Maybe the stones are trying to reform themselves, and who's a better catalyst than someone whose powers were born by one of them ?

I mean, at some points in the Serie, Wanda is clearly rewinding time. It didn't feel like she rewrote reality (especially without her hands glowing red as usual when she uses her powers), but more like a straight rewind of time, that only the time stone could do.

That could also explain Vision re-becoming sentient even after being physically dead. The Mind Stone reforming in his ex-host and re-grewing sentience.

Dunno, just a wild theory thrown in here

[Frozenbeef]

Wonder if captain marvel will come slam into the hex and fix it like every other marvel problem lately.

[Anastacy]

Wonder if captain marvel will come slam into the hex and fix it like every other marvel problem lately.

Happens twice in 2 movies out of 22 (one being her own), and that’s “every other Marvel problem”?

[ohwell]

And what if all this shit is happening because of the Infinity Stones "reduced to atoms" in this timeline ?
Maybe the stones are trying to reform themselves, and who's a better catalyst than someone whose powers were born by one of them ?

I mean, at some points in the Serie, Wanda is clearly rewinding time. It didn't feel like she rewrote reality (especially without her hands glowing red as usual when she uses her powers), but more like a straight rewind of time, that only the time stone could do.

That could also explain Vision re-becoming sentient even after being physically dead. The Mind Stone reforming in his ex-host and re-grewing sentience.

Dunno, just a wild theory thrown in here

Is she actually rewinding time as they actually somewhat explain that in the current episode as just being another take. So while it appears to be time going back, Agnes states that it isn't as she implied they've done multiple takes before.

[Anastacy]

In how many movies was she from those 22?

What does that matter?

She’s nigh indestructible, has an energy aura, and can fly. Why wouldn’t she crash into space ships to destroy them?

How many times is Hulk gonna punch something to solve a problem? Thor shoot some lightning? Captain America throw his shield? Black Widow do her spinny kick move where she grabs someone’s neck with her legs and knocks them to the ground (does that move have an official name?)?

[Frozenbeef]

Happens twice in 2 movies out of 22 (one being her own), and that’s “every other Marvel problem”?

Technically 2-4 times in the same movie (released less than a year after she was introduced, I'm sure if she was introduced earlier then avengers/Ultron/guardians/thor would have been resolved by her) where the story otherwise wouldn't progress/ they would lose.

Saving Ironman/ Nebula stranded in space (space is a large place)
Giving them enough of a power boost to assault Thanos post snap.
One hitting one of the most powerful ships in the universe.
Overpowering Thanos while he has all the infinity stones.

Compare that to Thor/Captain America combined losing to him with 0 infinity stones, the hulk literally being too scared to appear for an entire movie, guardians, doctor strange, ironman, nebula and Spiderman team up (pre all infinity stones)

Everything else is a team effort, meanwhile captain Marvel could pretty much solo endgame.

[Ophenia]

Is she actually rewinding time as they actually somewhat explain that in the current episode as just being another take. So while it appears to be time going back, Agnes states that it isn't as she implied they've done multiple takes before.

Yeah that's unclear. The beekeeper scene clearly looked like rewinding in time, but as it's on the sitcom, maybe it's just a visual effect that covered Wanda's re-writing this scene off using her powers.

But as I said it was more a wild theory which have very few bases, so I don't think they'll pull that anyway.

[blankfaced]

She's not rewinding time, she's bringing into existence an alternate reality where what ever she wants to happen is happening. Whether that's what she knows is happening, or that's how they'll explain it is another. But it looks like they're going the route of her being able to shape and alter reality to her will. And not just creepy telepath/telekinetic with pretty red light shows around it all.

[ProphetFlume]

Yeah that's unclear. The beekeeper scene clearly looked like rewinding in time, but as it's on the sitcom, maybe it's just a visual effect that covered Wanda's re-writing this scene off using her powers.

But as I said it was more a wild theory which have very few bases, so I don't think they'll pull that anyway.

Did we ever find out what happened to the beekeeper after she bounced him?

[Nerraw]

Did we ever find out what happened to the beekeeper after she bounced him?

Nope! Which is definitely going to have significance soon.

[Ophenia]

Nope! Which is definitely going to have significance soon.

Yup, could be a major plot point if her reality-twisting powers erased him from existence

She's not rewinding time, she's bringing into existence an alternate reality where what ever she wants to happen is happening.

I agree with that, but yet the sitcom shows the transition. I have trouble understanding what this sitcom does here at all to be fair. If she brings another reality every time something does not go "her way", she sure brings the sitcom-stuff with her

All the other "cuts" in the sitcom were abrupt cuts / back to previous scene, except this one which was smooth. For all other cuts, the "problematic part" was also cut and not shown (e.g. most of the scene with Rambeau), but the beekeper part and Wanda saying "No" remained, for some reason.

[Volardelis]

Saving Ironman/ Nebula stranded in space (space is a large place)
Giving them enough of a power boost to assault Thanos post snap.
One hitting one of the most powerful ships in the universe.
Overpowering Thanos while he has all the infinity stones.

To be fair, for "giving them enough of a power boost to assault thanos", we learn soon afterwards that Thanos had destroyed the stones and wouldn't have given much of a fight. Since we are shown that snapping his fingers twice, and one of them being to destroy the stones, did massive damage to him. Besides, he had completed his mission and to his knowledge there was no way to reverse it without the time stone. So why even put up a fight to begin with? If anything Thanos was happy to die knowing that he won.

For the "overpowering thanos while he had all the infinity stones" it was clearly established in Infinity War that Thanos needs to close his fist to use the stones outside of the snap. The cloak of Levitation was able to keep his hand from closing into a fist for some time. Even Captain America was able to at the end of Infinity War (which stunned Thanos for a bit). This is something that Carol does when Thanos has the gauntlet equipped. Which is why Thanos removes the power stone and uses it on her. Thanos can't overpower someone with all the stones if he can't use all the stones.

For the first one, given that Carol (in the MCU) got her power from the space stone, she can probably fly at or faster than the speed of light (which does explain why she hasn't visually aged in 30 or so years). This is something that is shown at the end of her standalone movie where she flies alongside the Skull ship that had been upgraded with the lightspeed engine. So all she had to was fly to Titan and scan the local area. Tony says in his 'dying message' that they could only fly the ship for about 48 hours. It is not that farfetched that she found them so quickly.

Finally for the 3rd one. A nuke destroyed Thanos' first ship at the end of the Avengers. So it isn't that farfetched that someone moving at the speed of light and with superhuman strength (that they got from an infinity stone) can easily tear down the ship that 2014 Thanos had in Endgame. Carol doing exactly that in her standalone movie to the Kree ships is also a reference to the comics.

[blankfaced]

Yup, could be a major plot point if her reality-twisting powers erased him from existence



I agree with that, but yet the sitcom shows the transition. I have trouble understanding what this sitcom does here at all to be fair. If she brings another reality every time something does not go "her way", she sure brings the sitcom-stuff with her

All the other "cuts" in the sitcom were abrupt cuts / back to previous scene, except this one which was smooth. For all other cuts, the "problematic part" was also cut and not shown (e.g. most of the scene with Rambeau), but the beekeper part and Wanda saying "No" remained, for some reason.

I guess i just don't look too hard at it because flickers like that remind me of daydreaming, but her daydreams are so powerful she alters reality around her without her even knowing it's happening. And daydreams are far from perfect. They sometimes flicker or jump like an old TV show would.

[Endus]

To be fair, for "giving them enough of a power boost to assault thanos", we learn soon afterwards that Thanos had destroyed the stones and wouldn't have given much of a fight given that snapping in his fingers twice, and one of them being to destroy the stones did massive damage to him. Besides, he had completed his mission and to his knowledge there was no way to reverse it without the time stone. So why even put up a fight to begin with? If anything Thanos was happy to die knowing that he won.

For the "overpowering thanos while he had all the infinity stones" it was clearly established in Infinity War that Thanos needs to close his fist to use the stones outside of the snap. The cloak of Levitation was able to keep his hand from closing into a fist for some time. Even Captain America was able to at the end of Infinity War (which stunned Thanos for a bit). This is something that Carol does when Thanos has the gauntlet equipped. Which is why Thanos removes the power stone and uses it on her. Thanos can't overpower someone with all the stones if he can't use all the stones.

For the first one, given that Carol (in the MCU) got her power from the space stone, she can probably fly at or faster than the speed of light (which does explain why she hasn't visually aged in 30 or so years). This is something that is shown at the end of her standalone movie where she flies alongside the Skull ship that had been upgraded with the lightspeed engine. So all she had to was fly to Titan and scan the local area. Tony says in his 'dying message' that they could only fly the ship for about 48 hours. It is not that farfetched that she found them so quickly.

Finally for the 3rd one. A nuke destroyed Thanos' first ship at the end of the Avengers. So it isn't that farfetched that someone moving at the speed of light and with superhuman strength (that they got from an infinity stone) can easily tear down the ship that 2014 Thanos had in Endgame. Carol doing exactly that in her standalone movie to the Kree ships is also a reference to the comics.

It's also kind of pathetic as a complaint, frankly.

How much crazy shit has Thor done? Has anyone argued he's "too powerful"? He got closer to killing Thanos than Carol ever did; that was the entire point of the "you should have gone for the head" line. Thor hadn't been brutal and ruthless enough, and that meant Thanos won, but it was not a lack of power, and Thanos admitted that Thor could've killed him there.

But Carol shows up and has enough power to stand toe-to-toe with anyone other hero in the MCU, and that's somehow suddenly a problem?

She punches Thanos a couple times while he's got the Gauntlet on, and somehow that's "too OP", whereas Thor slams a motherfuckin' axe into Thanos' shoulder, and that's not?

And to bring this back around; since Thanos can't use the Stones if he can't close his fist with the Gauntlet in that fight with Carol, they come off as being on fairly equal ground. She punches him a couple times, he doesn't care. He headbutts her, she glares at him. He tries to snap, she keeps his hand open, barely. He yanks the Power Stone out and punches her away. It was a fairly even fight until he used the Stone.

Now, watch Wanda's fight with Thanos in the same movie. He doesn't have the Gauntlet at the time, but that brings us back to the same power level as with Carol. Thanos tries to hit her once, with his big-ass dumb sword thing, and she just soaks the hit with her magic and smirks at him, and then starts to literally tear him physically apart with her magic. He doesn't have a chance against her. He's so scared by Wanda and what she can do he orders his entire fleet to shell the battlefield, slaughtering his own armies, just to get her off him. He's panicking. He didn't panic when facing Carol.

Not only is Carol not "too OP" unless you've got a problem with girls being strong, I wouldn't even say she's the strongest girl as presented in Endgame. I know the show producers have said she's the strongest, but I don't care about what went on behind the scenes or in the makers' heads, I care about what's in the actual canonical film.

And that was just a straight-out punch-up. Which isn't even Wanda's strength. It's her mind manipulation that really makes her scary.

[SavoirFaire]

And what if all this shit is happening because of the Infinity Stones "reduced to atoms" in this timeline ?
Maybe the stones are trying to reform themselves, and who's a better catalyst than someone whose powers were born by one of them ?

As much as I love the Mephisto and Mojo theories, this seems more plausible. This hex is messing with time, the mind, and reality. Perhaps the soul with the twins. Power and space would be harder to see on this scale. My guess is we reveal big bad tomorrow, next week is a rewind bringing it all together, then battle and resolution.

[Ophenia]

As much as I love the Mephisto and Mojo theories, this seems more plausible. This hex is messing with time, the mind, and reality. Perhaps the soul with the twins. Power and space would be harder to see on this scale. My guess is we reveal big bad tomorrow, next week is a rewind bringing it all together, then battle and resolution.

There's also all those "6" hints everywhere (and the Hex to begin with).
For the "Space" thing, well people are going teleported in/out, you don't "see" them through the wall so they're probably elsewhere.
And for the Soul, could be linked to what the neighbors were about to tell Vision when Wanda had her twins. They wanted to tell something to Vision, and ended mysteriously their sentence by "because we're all..." (don't know if that's what they said in English, I'm watching in French). "Because we're all dead" ?

No idea really, but we'll enter in the "reveal" phase this week or next one, so we'll get answers !