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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    So where's the beekeeper? Not a single reference to him since his disappearance. Wanda launched Monica from the area in a relatively "safe" manner, which makes me think she wasn't the one to get rid of him.
    Why assume anything happened to him? He was probably just integrated into the hex like everyone else in town. Rambeau was only ejected because she was breaking the illusion for Wanda. Some random agent she doesn't even interact with probably isn't causing trouble.

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Why assume anything happened to him? He was probably just integrated into the hex like everyone else in town. Rambeau was only ejected because she was breaking the illusion for Wanda. Some random agent she doesn't even interact with probably isn't causing trouble.
    We didn’t see his manner change and walk away or get sent back or show up again, he just disappeared when she said “no” without a cutaway in the coverage like when she booted Monica.

    “No More Beekeepers” inc
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-23 at 11:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Why assume anything happened to him?
    Because that would be only thing that can make the situation actually bad. So far Wanda has stolen something that probably doesn't have a legal existence, and pupetted people for a sitcom where nothing actually bad happened to them. That's barely a hostage situation for all SWORD/FBI know.

    If anything happened to this guy, it could give legitimate reasons for the SWORD to attack with full force. They've already attacked once (with the drone) but apparently without being backed by anyone (FBI wasn't aware apparently).
    It would also help Wanda realizes she's out of control, if she harmed anyone, which she didn't yet.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not sure if you’ve been paying attention, but the people in the hex are being tortured and held hostage. It’s already a pretty bad situation.
    Sure that is, never denied it was. But it's currently "not bad enough to kill an Avenger". There has been no durable casualty so far, no one died, no one was physically harmed. If someone dies from Wanda's hands, that could become really problematic, hence why I feel that this "no name guy" could be a major plot point of the next episodes.

    I mean, if that whole shit was that bad, Strange or any other Avenger would have intervened by now - even though that's probably a false argument as we can say that for nearly every solo-movie ever.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaxClap View Post
    Agatha is definitely working for someone, probably Nightmare. I think the rabbit is her husband Ralph(Mephisto?) The 2 creatures on tv are her kids.
    Lol that's Yo Gabba Gabba - not some show made up for wanda vision :P although color wise it'd work... one is a girl though

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    I don't think it's purely because of the missing mindstone that he has no memories. He should at least have what Jarvis knew and maybe even some Ultron ...err.. subroutines or something. SWORD had him for several years it seems and they dismantled him thoroughly and were already trying to bring him back online, which I'd say means they also had some kind of 'mind' implemented (like their own version of Ultron maybe), but it didn't work, as Jimmy and Monica say, until Wanda stole him. So it may even be that Wanda had to delete the new weapon-AI they gave him and then awakened him with a bit of her own mindstone-power and some of her memory of what he was like. If even that. Maybe someone else "awakened" him with her power, so Wanda would have a reason to maintain the sharade.
    The first two episodes neither Wanda nor Vision actually have any memories of what happened before they arrived. They develop some kind of independent thought and the power to manipulate the Hex/the mindcontrol (Wanda the Hex, Vision the mindcontrol) at roughly the same time. First time something like that happens is in the first episode at dinner, where both of them realize something is wrong when Visions boss is choking and both are hesitant to do something about it, until they decide their 'agreed upon' secrecy is less important than the man's life. I think that was a test by whoever created the Hex. And I don't think that was Wanda. I think Wanda walked into a trap and then let herself get carried away, because it meant a 'way out' of her desperation. Or, my other theory about it, the Hex is a wormhole created by some kind of being when reality became unstable after Thanos destroyed the stones, Wanda walked in and first tried to contain it... and then basically was trapped (again because it was her way out).
    Both from the outside and from the inside there's forces trying to make Wanda a murderer in her weakened state of mind. It's almost a classical scheme the devil would pull to bring down an originally innocent soul. Or how a Sith would bring a Jedi to the Dark Side
    It has been shown that Wanda is quite aware of everything that has happened. Or else Monica mentioning Ultron wouldn't have set her off like that. Wanda is just choosing to pretend nothing is wrong. Same thing in the first episode when Mr. Hart insisted on knowing where the came from. She made him choke then had Vision save him.

    In Infinity War Bruce Banner flat out stated that the mind stone is what made Vision "Vision", with bits of Jarvis/Banner/Tony traits mixed in. That is why they had Shuri working so hard to try and reroute all the connections so they could safely remove the stone so they could preserve his "awareness". At this point it doesn't matter too much though. He is getting the information he needs 2nd hand from Darcy to understand Wanda's state of mind.

  7. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We have an Avenger intervening. Her name is Monica.
    By that logic Coulson was an Avenger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    By that logic Coulson was an Avenger.
    Agents of SHIELD season 1 spoiler alert: Fury calls him exactly that at the end of the last episode of season 1.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Krunxx View Post
    It has been shown that Wanda is quite aware of everything that has happened. Or else Monica mentioning Ultron wouldn't have set her off like that. Wanda is just choosing to pretend nothing is wrong. Same thing in the first episode when Mr. Hart insisted on knowing where the came from. She made him choke then had Vision save him.

    In Infinity War Bruce Banner flat out stated that the mind stone is what made Vision "Vision", with bits of Jarvis/Banner/Tony traits mixed in. That is why they had Shuri working so hard to try and reroute all the connections so they could safely remove the stone so they could preserve his "awareness". At this point it doesn't matter too much though. He is getting the information he needs 2nd hand from Darcy to understand Wanda's state of mind.
    My interpretation was that Wanda became aware of her past, when she remembered Pietro while looking at the twins. Monica becomes aware of the 'real world' and the past at the same moment and thus mentions Ultron. Wanda is shocked to see her own powers manifesting after she blasts Monica out, because that is the first time her magic actually looks like her own and not like some sitcom magic special effect.

    And the thing about Vision being who he is without the mindstone is exactly what I mean. He should not have 'no memories', but without the mindstone he may well be a lot more like Ultron, which was Ultron's plan. Vision was supposed to be Ultron's 'final form' and then got more Jarvis (iirc) and the mindstone, which made him Vision instead. And once he gets his lesson in his personal history he even chooses to return to Wanda and help her, which is why I don't think he would have opposed Wanda more if he had his memories before that, quite the contrary. His memory loss was what enabled Agatha to gaslight him (by glitching out Herb and telling Vision her sob-story at the edge of town) into opposing Wanda and trying to escape the Hex.

  10. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not really. Did you miss the part where Monica has her Photon powers now?
    1) powers don’t = avenger

    2) they didn’t call in Monica the super powered member of sword, they called in normal, barely back 2 weeks agent of sword Monica.

    3) she’s not even working under sword anymore as she’s working against the head of it.

    But to the original question, I doubt Hayward wants to involve the avengers unless he has to for fear they’ll find out what he was doing to visions body.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Agents of SHIELD season 1 spoiler alert: Fury calls him exactly that at the end of the last episode of season 1.
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu, and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-23 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  11. #591
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    And the thing about Vision being who he is without the mindstone is exactly what I mean. He should not have 'no memories', but without the mindstone he may well be a lot more like Ultron, which was Ultron's plan. Vision was supposed to be Ultron's 'final form' and then got more Jarvis (iirc) and the mindstone, which made him Vision instead.
    Vision was an empty husk. The plan was for ultron to upload his consciousness to him. Later tony and Bruce began to upload the original ultron plans tweaked with jarvis in the hopes of adding a morality, but Thor popped it halfway, so he’s neither.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    From a writers POV there isn’t a need to bring in an established Avenger and Agent Hayward is adverse to people with powers. So you’ve got 3 Avengers inside the Hex(one newly born) and an asshole outside who wants to make Ultron 2.0. Now, that’s not to say other Avengers won’t be dealing with the fallout. Obviously Doctor Strange 2 will be continuing Wanda’s story and this miniseries leads directly into that.
    That’s not your discussion, you said they called in the superpowered avenger Monica to handle things, which 2 of 3 of those weren’t true, and one just happened 7 weeks in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Vision was an empty husk. The plan was for ultron to upload his consciousness to him. Later tony and Bruce began to upload the original ultron plans tweaked with jarvis in the hopes of adding a morality, but Thor popped it halfway, so he’s neither.

    <snip>
    Ah yea, that's what it was. I still think that taking away the mindstone should not erase what was there before, which is, as you wrote, original Ultron with more Jarvis. I think those memories should still be there and they aren't, because SWORD removed them. They don't actually want Jarvis in it, morality would be an impediment for a weapon they want to deploy whenever whereever they like. And if they actually were already trying to bring him back online, they must already have implemented their own AI. Wanda may have erased that, or at least tried to.

    But we'll see what it really is, I hope this Friday. I'm already biting my nails, because I'm so curious!

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu,
    I guess you don't figure the Netflix shows to be part of the MCU either then.

    and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    Errrr, yeah? That happened to him from being brought back, which Fury did because he considered Coulson an Avenger at the time of his death.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not really. Did you miss the part where Monica has her Photon powers now?
    Monica is not an Avenger. Powers don't make you an Avenger. It just makes you someone with powers.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  15. #595
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    No I didn’t. I said they, the writers, already have an Avenger on scene helping deal with the problem. You inferred the rest. And, again, the guy in charge hates people with powers... soooooo, yeah.
    Maybe that’s what you meant but
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We have an Avenger intervening. Her name is Monica.
    In no way comes off as “the writers have someone on scene fulfilling that role.”

    Which still wouldn’t be the same because the point was Hayward recognizing he’s in over his head. Though I already answered that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    I guess you don't figure the Netflix shows to be part of the MCU either then.



    Errrr, yeah? That happened to him from being brought back, which Fury did because he considered Coulson an Avenger at the time of his death.
    No, they’re not. Feige and everyone from the mcu would agree with me. I don’t need to go into the real life reasons for this do I? It’s not coincidence nothing from those shows were mentioned in the mcu.
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-02-23 at 02:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  16. #596
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Get back to me after Captain Marvel 2 and tell me she’s not an Avenger in this phase of the MCU.
    You keep mentioning stuff from the end point backwards. We’re talking about things as they were when they happened.

    Was tony an avenger in I’m 1 because he became one at the end of the phase? Were the maximoffs the heroes in the beginning of AoU because they were redeemed by the end?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Get back to me after Captain Marvel 2 and tell me she’s not an Avenger in this phase of the MCU.
    She's not an Avenger in Wandavision.

    After Captain Marvel 2 she may be an Avenger....but right now...she isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, he was. And the Maximoff’s weren’t bad guys in AoU at any point in time. Just ask Cap.
    He didn't say anything about them being "bad guys". He asked if they were Avengers. And for most of the movie... they aren't.

    And Tony wasn't an Avenger in IM1. He also wasn't an Avenger in IM2. Thor Odinson isn't an Avenger in Thor 1. Steve Rogers is not an Avenger in CA1. Carol Danvers isn't an Avenger in CM. Because there were no Avengers in the time frames those movies are set.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2021-02-23 at 03:01 PM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  18. #598
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, he was. From the writer’s PoV. Which is where I’m looking at it from. Just like Captain America was an Avenger in WW2 before the Avengers were even a thing.
    Stop trying to use avenger for a blanket statement of powerful hero. Avenger is just the team formed and at one point there were even two teams of Avengers. It doesn't really mean much at all. Avengers are not automatically super powerful nor does anything about your power change between being an Avenger and just being a Super Hero/Villan.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    She's not an Avenger in Wandavision.

    After Captain Marvel 2 she may be an Avenger....but right now...she isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He didn't say anything about them being "bad guys". He asked if they were Avengers. And for most of the movie... they aren't.

    And Tony wasn't an Avenger in IM1. He also wasn't an Avenger in IM2. Thor Odinson isn't an Avenger in Thor 1. Steve Rogers is not an Avenger in CA1. Carol Danvers isn't an Avenger in CM. Because there were no Avengers in the time frames those movies are set.
    I can agree with most of this minus the Steve Rogers part. His first movie is literally titled Captain America: The First Avenger.

  20. #600
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We have an Avenger intervening. Her name is Monica.
    She's not an Avenger. Yet. She's literally just realized she has powers. "Avenger" is the label for a membership in a particular semi-governmental defense initiative, not "any random person who has powers".

    When someone taps her on the shoulder and asks if she's heard about the Avenger Initiative, and she smiles, then we can consider her an Avenger. Not before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    Agents of shield isn’t even mcu, and takes place after his death, so... I’m talking before he was given alien blood which affected his physiology.
    It shares characters, particularly Coulson. It was used to deliberately set up the Hydra reveal in Winter Soldier. It went into a lot of detail about the Kree in later seasons, which we've delved even further into with Captain Marvel.

    The line between AoS and the MCU is entirely down to the showrunners, really.

    A better way of phrasing it is to use the Marvel canonical universe labelling. AoS isn't "the MCU", because the C in there is "cinematic", and AoS is on TV. So it's the "MTU", kind of thing. But both the MCU and MTU are part of the same Earth-199999 universe. Much the same way that a regular Fantastic Four comic and a Moon Knight comic might both take place in Earth-616 continuity, even if neither references the other and they have wildly different tones and graphical styles and so on.

    AoS and the MCU are part of the same continuity. Canonically. We could argue if that maybe changed in the very last seasons, between the time jumps and all that; that may have shunted AoS out of Earth-199999 into a new separate universe, but until that first break in Season 5? Seasons 1-4? Absolutely continuous with the MCU universe, without real question.


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