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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    1. Amazing opener. Just stating someone is lying on a subjective matter automatically made your opinion seem much more true and imprortsnt. Good job, you already proofed your point.

    2. No one talked about ceiling, Op asked for casual pvp, and yes there you can 1 2 3 people with a rogue. Yes op will probably lose to 2,5k player, but again that wasnt his question.

    3. Druid has the highest skill ceiling , and that will probably always stay that way

    4. If you think sub is harder then frost dk you never played both actively. But thats my opinion yours may be different, however specially in casual bg playing rogue is so much easier as you can solo carry almost everything because people dont know how to react to rogue opener / cc chains
    QUESTION: Is the Rogue the easiest class to kill incompetent people on?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Can a caveman: stealth and open with a cheapshot, shadow dance, some shadowstrikes, Eviscerate , shadow dance, do more SS, Eviscerate again? (This is what you meant by 1,2,3 I assume)
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Will that kill a lot of people out in open world pvp?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Will that work in arena below the 1k rating?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Is rogue the easiest class to take to 1400+ and be good?
    ANSWER: Absolutely not.

  2. #82
    There’s nothing worse than people that speak with conviction on something they clearly know nothing about.

    I’m sorry, but there’s a reason good players can make literally any spec work in arena (up to glad) while certain people here are hardstuck at 1400/1600/1800.

    Even being a multi glad (season week 2, peaked at top 90 EU), I don’t feel that my opinions on balance really matter compared to the real top dogs. I’m still total trash in a lot of peoples eyes, yet people here speak as if they KNOW what specs are amazing and they KNOW what specs are total faceroll to play.

    The only time the ease of a spec matters is when you’re playing at a rating where the ‘difficult’ specs don’t know how to play. Everything requires a high level of skill when you’re against good enough opponents.

    Cept tanks.
    Last edited by DechCJC; 2021-01-21 at 03:02 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by maulgryve View Post
    QUESTION: Is the Rogue the easiest class to kill incompetent people on?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Can a caveman: stealth and open with a cheapshot, shadow dance, some shadowstrikes, Eviscerate , shadow dance, do more SS, Eviscerate again? (This is what you meant by 1,2,3 I assume)
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Will that kill a lot of people out in open world pvp?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Will that work in arena below the 1k rating?
    ANSWER: Yes.

    QUESTION: Is rogue the easiest class to take to 1400+ and be good?
    ANSWER: Absolutely not.
    Question : Did op ask for non competitive pvp?

    Answer: yes


    Its not only about sub rogue being easy, but also it feels rewarding to play and improve on. While on frost dk you are basically just learn to position and when to burst and when to move how as you dont have any tools on the level of a rogue to get better with. And if it was legion season 1 i would say f dk is easier, but with the current lack of viability and need for other classes to help unlock their potential, rogue is far easier to play on its own as its is self sufficiant

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Solero View Post
    LOL frost dk hard. Lmao.

    Play bm hunter or frost dk if you want it easy.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Youre flat out lying.

    Rogue has the highest ceiling ingame. Sub requires much more to play on a good level than any other class atm. While it does seem easy to people because they can kill you in a stun, i welcome you to play sub at 2.5k arena right now. Having warriors and monks and ret doing 3x your damage because rogues looking for restealths everytime.

    Dont play sub if you want it very easy because it isnt. Most people that saying they are easy, are malding baddies. If you get good as rogue, its very rewarding.

    Nope, I rolled Rogue. Never played it, ever. Started instantly smashing people. Rogue feels like cheating. Especially in world Pvp can never ever lose except to Ferals. I really found Rogue vs Rogue very fun as it like submarine warfare. Nothing hard about Rogue.

    After playing Enhancement, Rogue is like entering a cheat code.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draylock View Post
    As Ret you have your bubble as an on-demand pause button, that allows you to do whatever you want. You have Blessing of Freedom that allows you to completely forget about slows. You have BoP that allows you to protect a teammate from a good chunk of damage. You have a baseline 5 sec stun AND get more cc with talents.

    As FDK you also need to be aware of when and where to use your AMZ (and if Blizz ever fix the Dome of the Ancient Shadow - even more so). You also need to mind your resources to keep chains on targets. You also need to set up your Chains.

    I don't see how one is easier than the other.
    As Ret in arena using your bubble is the worst feeling ever. Whenever I use bubble I feel like my team has lost as now I'm going to get trained into the ground. There is a reason no Ret teams made it to the finals in either NA or EU.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Nope, I rolled Rogue. Never played it, ever. Started instantly smashing people. Rogue feels like cheating. Especially in world Pvp can never ever lose except to Ferals. I really found Rogue vs Rogue very fun as it like submarine warfare. Nothing hard about Rogue.

    After playing Enhancement, Rogue is like entering a cheat code.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As Ret in arena using your bubble is the worst feeling ever. Whenever I use bubble I feel like my team has lost as now I'm going to get trained into the ground. There is a reason no Ret teams made it to the finals in either NA or EU.
    Gotta love the "but at 2,5k Rogue is hard!!!" people, even though OP just wanted something to start PvP on. Below 1k rating, where you can literally macro a one-shot button on a rogue.

    But the same kinda applies to your argument. At low rating a paladin using bubble almost guarantees you at least 3 seconds of wasted gcds into that bubble, while you have full and complete freedom over your actions.

  6. #86
    fury war is hot garbage so its not easy to perform well because the whole spec is trash. frost dk is extremly setup based otherwise you do no dmg. ret pally is fine

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NoXaL99 View Post
    Can we get your armory and your current rating? Cause saying arms is an easy spec just makes everything you say kinda irrelevant. So where's your big rating ?
    i was about to say this too. arms warrior has a very high skillcap at least in arenas. you need to read the game and position yourself right so you can use the intervene reflect or banner for your team. its maybe easy to learn the rotation but if you end up being an arms warrior who only deals alot of dmg, then you are trash. arms has alot of utility that isn easy to use and requires good game knowledge and reflexes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I PVP'd a little in Legion, but really haven't done a lot of PVP since Cataclysm or MoP.

    Looking for some opinions on whats the top 3 easiest specs to play right now. Just looking to do non-rated, casual PVP. Melee preferred.
    i'll try to give you a detailed list for a non rated casual environment aka random battlegrounds or even world pvp:

    Melees:
    S Tier:
    Ret - high damage, bubble, short cds, good selfheal, tankiness only with prot pally legendary and prot conduit, can be kited, easy rotation, can hit on range with some spells, kyrian covenant can oneshot ppl (4 judgements in opponents face for 5-8k), can play with short stun, repentance or aoe blinding light. good utility for group members with sac, sanc and bop

    Windwalker - highest burst in the game with xuen legendary, alot of mobility, great toolkit with disarm, portal, fury fists dodge, ring of piece, aoe stun and paralyse - can easy be killed in stuns or without karma/wall, is squishy in general i would say because karma isnt as strong as it was in bfa, also pally meta is generally not good for ww because they can bubble or bop karma off and then you are dead.

    A-Tier:
    Arms - good/high damage, high utility toolkit for group members (hp shout, intervene (reflect(, mass spell reflect with legendary), aoe fear, stormbolt for target lockdown, 3 of the 4 covenants work fine (venthyr, kyrian and nightfae)

    DK - both dks work fine in bgs i guess, you have the same covenant on both specs so switching for some variety is fine, frost is big into other melees and no one can outdamage frost in a melee cleave setup because of chill streak, also nice control with the aoe blind, unholy i dont see very often because frost is just stronger and easier to play i would say. you have good self heal with death strike IF you can connect, anti magic zone for group support, mass grip covenant (necro) is just annoying for the enemies and quite strong, also range kick, asphyxiate and ams for survival. you can do funny plays with dark simulacrum where you steal the next spell of the enemy. dk is totally fine but i would recommend frost.

    sub rogue: alot of cc, squishy, nice burst and short cds on dance (1min), also you can get hp back very fast while in stealth, stealth classes can carry flag bgs or things like arathi basin with sneaky kills on flag carrier or some sneaky taps on bases. sub rogue is also a very good dueler but defensive is limited to evasion and cloak with some high cds which makes kiting the key if its getting dangerous for you. rogue in general has a high skillcap to perform well but as i mentioned - stealth classes are fine and you have the advantage of choosing your opponent and not the other way round.

    B-Tier:
    enhance: good damage if able to connect, 3 min big burst with ascendence, one min big burst with windfury legendary, good heal but can oom quick, can be kitet very easy, alot of utility with totems (grounding, tremor, healing stream, earthbind), ascendance paired with windfury totem is just game over for anyone without defensive and it makes so much fun to see people getting shredded by some nice stormstrike proccs, only 1 defensive outside of the offhealing which cant be used in stuns, enhance is basically a dead man if kited because you dont get procs for self heal unless your wolves are helping you. rotation is very easy

    feral: stealth class again, alot of self heal, can clone, bash, maim or rake stun targets, 3 min cd for berserker, if you play convoke its easy to oneshot someone without trinket in a bash or a maim which feels nice, fun to play but less impact then a rogue i would say, can kite pretty good and disengage combat with sprint/bear sprint/roots + self heal. high burst potential with convoke and moderate dmg while no cd's are available. not a bad pick tho.

    DH - high burst potential with covenant ability "the hunt", can crit for 16-22k, good mobili
    ty, squishy while out of demon form and if you dont have the darkness legendary, ohterwise a very fun class but it is just not as good as it was during legion and bfa because you lost the blade dance dodge ability, range kick, single target stun, aoe stun and an incap - the rotation is also very easy to learn


    Survival - cant say anything here but that survival is pretty weak
    combat rogue - literally no one plays this
    assa rogue - idk, noone plays this, could be fun with big envenom oneshots
    fury war - stop it


    i wrote it in like 5 mins without rereading every sentence and just wrote what came into my mind, dont be harsh with grammar pls
    Last edited by crazyswayzee; 2021-01-22 at 10:45 AM.

  7. #87
    @crazyswayzee

    Buddy you just repeated what I said. Dealing damage with arms is easy and they are tanky ? YES, that’s what I said.

    Everyone knows that every class is harder to play at 2,5

    But op asked for CASUAL. And in Casual arms is a 123 spec who is currently also top tier and so is sun rogue.

    No one denies they have a higher ceiling then dk or ret >.>

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Nope, I rolled Rogue. Never played it, ever. Started instantly smashing people. Rogue feels like cheating. Especially in world Pvp can never ever lose except to Ferals. I really found Rogue vs Rogue very fun as it like submarine warfare. Nothing hard about Rogue.

    After playing Enhancement, Rogue is like entering a cheat code.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As Ret in arena using your bubble is the worst feeling ever. Whenever I use bubble I feel like my team has lost as now I'm going to get trained into the ground. There is a reason no Ret teams made it to the finals in either NA or EU.
    Rogue skillcap is miles above enhancement or ret. I don't think you even understand the concept since you think killing afk people in greens in world pvp matters. In world pvp the person who gets the jump wins, assuming everything else equal. Rogues always get the jump. HARD TO GRASP I KNOW.

    Rogues have nothing passive, that's why they're harder to push with. If you fuck up you can't just press a button to clear a stun and make yourself immune to everything, if you get caught in a stun without pre-feint or trinket you are dead. To score a kill you can't hope to get lucky procs or damage from a pet, you have to chain your abilities correctly without a gap in stunlock. You also need to cross-CC, since any disruption ruins your burst. You're on a timer, you can't outlast anyone and win by default, so the onus is on the rogue's team to setup a play. Most melee classes on the other hand are the opposite, they just train someone down until the healer is out of mana, it's brainless.

    This is why people offering boosting services will often decline rogues, mages, and sometimes druids. Because those 3 have higher skillcaps and it's hard to carry them if they are played by bad players. On the other hand it is fucking easy to carry a paladin, and certain other classes that have lots of passive damage and noob-friendly defensives.

    Just really gets on my tits when blatant shitters (no offence) act like world pvp or low rated pvp has any bearing on pvp balance.
    Last edited by intenz; 2021-01-22 at 08:06 PM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    Rogue skillcap is miles above enhancement or ret. I don't think you even understand the concept since you think killing afk people in greens in world pvp matters. In world pvp the person who gets the jump wins, assuming everything else equal. Rogues always get the jump. HARD TO GRASP I KNOW.

    Rogues have nothing passive, that's why they're harder to push with. If you fuck up you can't just press a button to clear a stun and make yourself immune to everything, if you get caught in a stun without pre-feint or trinket you are dead. To score a kill you can't hope to get lucky procs or damage from a pet, you have to chain your abilities correctly without a gap in stunlock. You also need to cross-CC, since any disruption ruins your burst. You're on a timer, you can't outlast anyone and win by default, so the onus is on the rogue's team to setup a play. Most melee classes on the other hand are the opposite, they just train someone down until the healer is out of mana, it's brainless.

    This is why people offering boosting services will often decline rogues, mages, and sometimes druids. Because those 3 have higher skillcaps and it's hard to carry them if they are played by bad players. On the other hand it is fucking easy to carry a paladin, and certain other classes that have lots of passive damage and noob-friendly defensives.

    Just really gets on my tits when blatant shitters (no offence) act like world pvp or low rated pvp has any bearing on pvp balance.
    1. stop stroking the ego of rogues. They haven’t been the way you describe it since wod.

    In wod rogues started the famous one button strategy skilling spree + kidney

    The Legion we had the beautiful assasination rogues just using artifact proccs with posion to burst with 2 buttons while sub was cc spam for dummys in rbg

    BFA was literally assasination the Most overturned 3 button specc which Tunnels people like a warrior

    And now in SL you have 100 to 0 1 2 3 sub rogue burst

    2. THE . OP. ASKED . FOR . CASUAL AND NOT 2500+
    Last edited by ArenaDk; 2021-01-23 at 03:58 PM.

  10. #90
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    I think Frost DK and DH are good to go.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    And now in SL you have 100 to 0 1 2 3 sub rogue burst
    Can you tell me what the 1 2 3 is so that I can 100-0 people? Please and thank you.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by maulgryve View Post
    Can you tell me what the 1 2 3 is so that I can 100-0 people? Please and thank you.
    Clearly that guy has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to Sub rogues. It's way more than 1 2 3 100-0. You know that, I know that, he doesn't.

    No matter how you try to explain to him, it will never work. He already has opinions in his heads and not me, not you, not any body can convince him that he's wrong, it won't happen. I've seen him in a couple of PvP posts over the years, he got banned from the forums multiple times for his disrespectful comments and attitude. Trying to have a conversation with him is like talking to a wall, and with everything he post, you can clearly see that he's probably not even above 1600.

    Don't waste your time.

    If your question was genuine and you really want to improve as a sub rogue, look for PvP ressource from people that are actually competent at what they are doing. I would highly recommend Pikaboo, Whazz or Nahj. I personally prefer Pikaboo but the other 2 have great experience in the PvP arena. Also, Skill-Caped is also a very good place to look for resource but I think most of it is subscription based.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by maulgryve View Post
    Can you tell me what the 1 2 3 is so that I can 100-0 people? Please and thank you.
    Gimme a bit. Will have to check how everything is called in English ones Iam home, and then I can give you the 1 2 3 run down.

    And buddy , you can insult me all day. You are a stranger on the internet. I don’t care.

  14. #94
    If you aint pushing REALLY high pvp rating, it doesnt matter. Find a class & spec YOU enjoy and play with that. You gotta have fun with it.

    Right now im playing my warrior alot. Apparantly Arms is much better than Fury, but I dont give a shit. I dislike Arms playstyle, and really enjoy Fury.

    I aint pushing anything high rated, so it doesnt matter. I have fun with it.

  15. #95
    God this thread is a mess.

    If you want an objectively easy class to PvP on I think the only real answers are BM Hunter and Frost DK. Pretty much every other class is going to require a lot more focus/effort/setup.

    If you want something that's easy at around 1k rating literally any big burst class is all you need. Sub Rogue, Fire Mage, or Ret Paladin in particular are good choices because at that rating your opponents don't really know what's happening so you can click your burst CD and kill them instantly. They're harder classes to play if the games don't end instantly, but at that rating they will end instantly so it doesn't really matter.

    In reality no class is actually easy in PvP though, at least not if you want to get to a decent level.

  16. #96
    Healer = Holy Pally
    Melee Dps = Havoc
    Ranged = Destro

  17. #97
    Not the best specc, but its a decent way to get introduced to Rogue; Assassination.
    The specc plays well, decent dmg and CC. Not the huge burst Sub has, but by far a more forgiving specc to play with (you can make more mistakes and still be useful).
    And even tho you're not the "big DPS" champ, you can help with flags and general CC of healers etc with Kidney, Smokebomb, Blind, Sap etc.
    Just a thought

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I PVP'd a little in Legion, but really haven't done a lot of PVP since Cataclysm or MoP.

    Looking for some opinions on whats the top 3 easiest specs to play right now. Just looking to do non-rated, casual PVP. Melee preferred.
    Ret Paladins are fun, easy to learn, difficult to master. But very good against bads...


  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyswayzee View Post
    i'll try to give you a detailed list for a non rated casual environment aka random battlegrounds or even world pvp:

    Melees:
    S Tier:
    Ret - high damage, bubble, short cds, good selfheal, tankiness only with prot pally legendary and prot conduit, can be kited, easy rotation, can hit on range with some spells, kyrian covenant can oneshot ppl
    Ret is anything but tanky tho (the uptime is due to WoG healing, not tankyness). Also I have yet to one-shot people with equal gear with DT. Deffo not S Tier, more like A (as pretty much confirmed by majority of good arena players and worthwhile streamers/Youtubers.
    -K

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    Rogue skillcap is miles above enhancement or ret. I don't think you even understand the concept since you think killing afk people in greens in world pvp matters. In world pvp the person who gets the jump wins, assuming everything else equal. Rogues always get the jump. HARD TO GRASP I KNOW.

    Rogues have nothing passive, that's why they're harder to push with. If you fuck up you can't just press a button to clear a stun and make yourself immune to everything, if you get caught in a stun without pre-feint or trinket you are dead. To score a kill you can't hope to get lucky procs or damage from a pet, you have to chain your abilities correctly without a gap in stunlock. You also need to cross-CC, since any disruption ruins your burst. You're on a timer, you can't outlast anyone and win by default, so the onus is on the rogue's team to setup a play. Most melee classes on the other hand are the opposite, they just train someone down until the healer is out of mana, it's brainless.

    This is why people offering boosting services will often decline rogues, mages, and sometimes druids. Because those 3 have higher skillcaps and it's hard to carry them if they are played by bad players. On the other hand it is fucking easy to carry a paladin, and certain other classes that have lots of passive damage and noob-friendly defensives.

    Just really gets on my tits when blatant shitters (no offence) act like world pvp or low rated pvp has any bearing on pvp balance.
    Rogue is easy because I can counter anything you can possibly do. You pop wings? I blind and restealth. Reopen and kill you (Ret example). You now bubble, I vanish and reopen when bubble expires. Rogue kit is absurd.

    I wasnt killing afk players, stop being a donkey.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyswayzee View Post
    fury war is hot garbage so its not easy to perform well because the whole spec is trash. frost dk is extremly setup based otherwise you do no dmg. ret pally is fine

    - - - Updated - - -



    i was about to say this too. arms warrior has a very high skillcap at least in arenas. you need to read the game and position yourself right so you can use the intervene reflect or banner for your team. its maybe easy to learn the rotation but if you end up being an arms warrior who only deals alot of dmg, then you are trash. arms has alot of utility that isn easy to use and requires good game knowledge and reflexes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    i'll try to give you a detailed list for a non rated casual environment aka random battlegrounds or even world pvp:

    Melees:
    S Tier:
    Ret - high damage, bubble, short cds, good selfheal, tankiness only with prot pally legendary and prot conduit, can be kited, easy rotation, can hit on range with some spells, kyrian covenant can oneshot ppl (4 judgements in opponents face for 5-8k), can play with short stun, repentance or aoe blinding light. good utility for group members with sac, sanc and bop

    Windwalker - highest burst in the game with xuen legendary, alot of mobility, great toolkit with disarm, portal, fury fists dodge, ring of piece, aoe stun and paralyse - can easy be killed in stuns or without karma/wall, is squishy in general i would say because karma isnt as strong as it was in bfa, also pally meta is generally not good for ww because they can bubble or bop karma off and then you are dead.

    A-Tier:
    Arms - good/high damage, high utility toolkit for group members (hp shout, intervene (reflect(, mass spell reflect with legendary), aoe fear, stormbolt for target lockdown, 3 of the 4 covenants work fine (venthyr, kyrian and nightfae)

    DK - both dks work fine in bgs i guess, you have the same covenant on both specs so switching for some variety is fine, frost is big into other melees and no one can outdamage frost in a melee cleave setup because of chill streak, also nice control with the aoe blind, unholy i dont see very often because frost is just stronger and easier to play i would say. you have good self heal with death strike IF you can connect, anti magic zone for group support, mass grip covenant (necro) is just annoying for the enemies and quite strong, also range kick, asphyxiate and ams for survival. you can do funny plays with dark simulacrum where you steal the next spell of the enemy. dk is totally fine but i would recommend frost.

    sub rogue: alot of cc, squishy, nice burst and short cds on dance (1min), also you can get hp back very fast while in stealth, stealth classes can carry flag bgs or things like arathi basin with sneaky kills on flag carrier or some sneaky taps on bases. sub rogue is also a very good dueler but defensive is limited to evasion and cloak with some high cds which makes kiting the key if its getting dangerous for you. rogue in general has a high skillcap to perform well but as i mentioned - stealth classes are fine and you have the advantage of choosing your opponent and not the other way round.

    B-Tier:
    enhance: good damage if able to connect, 3 min big burst with ascendence, one min big burst with windfury legendary, good heal but can oom quick, can be kitet very easy, alot of utility with totems (grounding, tremor, healing stream, earthbind), ascendance paired with windfury totem is just game over for anyone without defensive and it makes so much fun to see people getting shredded by some nice stormstrike proccs, only 1 defensive outside of the offhealing which cant be used in stuns, enhance is basically a dead man if kited because you dont get procs for self heal unless your wolves are helping you. rotation is very easy

    feral: stealth class again, alot of self heal, can clone, bash, maim or rake stun targets, 3 min cd for berserker, if you play convoke its easy to oneshot someone without trinket in a bash or a maim which feels nice, fun to play but less impact then a rogue i would say, can kite pretty good and disengage combat with sprint/bear sprint/roots + self heal. high burst potential with convoke and moderate dmg while no cd's are available. not a bad pick tho.

    DH - high burst potential with covenant ability "the hunt", can crit for 16-22k, good mobili
    ty, squishy while out of demon form and if you dont have the darkness legendary, ohterwise a very fun class but it is just not as good as it was during legion and bfa because you lost the blade dance dodge ability, range kick, single target stun, aoe stun and an incap - the rotation is also very easy to learn


    Survival - cant say anything here but that survival is pretty weak
    combat rogue - literally no one plays this
    assa rogue - idk, noone plays this, could be fun with big envenom oneshots
    fury war - stop it


    i wrote it in like 5 mins without rereading every sentence and just wrote what came into my mind, dont be harsh with grammar pls
    I disagree with Warrior "A-tier". Its "S" imo. Simply judging by Arms kit its beyond insane which is awesome. Arms kit kit should crap all over RMX.

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