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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Okay. In 3 weeks you can get 21k anima which is enough for two level 3 upgrades. It will take you 4 weeks to get enough souls to buy those two upgrades since they require 22 souls each. That is 44 souls and last week we upgraded the soul keeper to 15 souls. So 15x3 is 45. You'll have 3 souls left over this week. In 3 weeks you will also get another soul keeper upgrade that increase the amount starting on the 4th week. Assuming it is 20 per week from that point it will take 7 weeks to get enough souls for level 3, 4 and 5 of the Covenant mini-game. It will take you 5 weeks (rounding up) to get the required anima. So gaining 7k a week you will have enough anima for all upgrades before you have the required souls.

    The current amount of anima you can gain isn't the problem or a problem. If the covenant features are that important to you then you will be willing to play 1 hour a day to get them. If you are not willing to play 1 hour a day then why do you care so much about unlocking covenant features that basically unlock world quests for you to waste time with?

    7k a week also isn't the most you can get in a week. That ignores the weeklies and there are people who have been Anima capped already which is 35k. That is a true grind and 7k a week is far from a grind. This week you can get 1,350 anima just from the 2 dungeon and 2 pvp quests but that requires rated battle grounds so most won't be doing it I think. But it does award 250x3.
    You keep talking about how much you can get per week/day without address the fact that people are talking to you about not wanting to grind WQ's every day for weeks.

    Yes you can get decent Anima income, if you grind yourself into boredom and burnout. That's the whole complaint, we don't want to grind daily's every day for weeks to unlock basic convenant features and buy a cosmetic item because its mind numbingly boring and after 2 expansions of mindlessly boring grind people are sick and tired of it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You're skipping treasures and rares, aren't you? The kill 2 competitors in the arena one is worth 105 on its own. I had my weekly 1k from Ardenweald, Bastion, and Maldraxxus without even visiting Revendreth with the world boss and elite WQ in the same area worth a total of 500.
    Well yes, I was talking about WQs, not treasures and rares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You keep talking about how much you can get per week/day without address the fact that people are talking to you about not wanting to grind WQ's every day for weeks.
    This. Double down by the fact that I am already playing a decent amount the things I enjoy playing (dugeons, raids, torghast, weeklies) that should be giving me a reasonable amount of anima, but often just give me barely enough for the weekly 1k quest.

    Anima was sold to us as a "no infinite grind" currency, that you could acquire enough of by doing whatever you want. By that definition, the amount you get from dungeons, raids and Torghast should be at least somewhat similar to what you get from WQs.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Lora View Post
    there is an anima drought going on so
    Soon there will be a player drought so.

    Gating anima income buff behind renown would have been the easiest and most elegant solution, just like souls are gated behind renown, rather than patches. Castle Nathria done, Denathrius is dealt with? -> which renown level is that? -> more anima comes in every so often. Makes sense.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-01-21 at 11:06 AM.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Soon there will be a player drought so.

    Gating anima income buff behind renown would have been the easiest and most elegant solution, just like souls are gated behind renown, rather than patches. Castle Nathria done, Denathrius is dealt with? -> which renown level is that? -> more anima comes in every so often. Makes sense.
    I mean if we strictly go by the lore then there should only be anima left in places where the jailer's forces intrude or in places where he and his allies (mostly Denathrius) have hoarded it. Since no souls get into the shadowlands anima should become even more scarce besides the aforementioned sources, yet miraculously we still find alot of it each day for grinding mind-numbingly boring WQs. So the whole lore angle is complete and utter bullshit in the first place.

    Walking past these giant anima containers and just letting them sit there while filled to the brim is already kicking the lore and visual story telling with feet. Not to mention how the random covenant trainees from the callings put down containers full of it as well, just so that we can detonate them; rare resource for sure. Then there is the fact that CN of all places drops by far the most pathetic amount of anima of all possible sources, short of getting nothing at all (unless you run it multiple times, then that is the case as well), despite being lorewise one of the most abundand anima sources left. So I personally think that approach doesn't hold much water to begin with.

    All that aside, as you said and even Blizzard admitted with the maw, it's still a game and should be fun. Currently the grind to unlock things to do is everything but. Especially since you know they will add catch-up for these things later. It becomes less and less appealing to start playing the game from the beginning tbh, since all the artificial gating disrupts any natural flow. In legion I was giving them the benefit of doubt as they clearly needed to learn how to finetune their alternate proression systems first. But after corruption in late BFA it's clear that all this has method.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2021-01-21 at 11:23 AM.
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    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I mean if we strictly go by the lore then there should only be anima left in places where the jailer's forces intrude or in places where he and his allies (mostly Denathrius) have hoarded it. Since no souls get into the shadowlands anima should become even more scarce besides the aforementioned sources, yet miraculously we still find alot of it each day for grinding mind-numbingly boring WQs. So the whole lore angle is complete and utter bullshit in the first place.

    Walking past these giant anima containers and just letting them sit there while filled to the brim is already kicking the lore and visual story telling with feet. Not to mention how the random covenant trainees from the callings put down containers full of it as well, just so that we can detonate them; rare resource for sure. Then there is the fact that CN of all places drops by far the most pathetic amount of anima of all possible sources, short of getting nothing at all (unless you run it multiple times, then that is the case as well), despite being lorewise one of the most abundand anima sources left. So I personally think that approach doesn't hold much water to begin with.

    All that aside, as you said and even Blizzard admitted with the maw, it's still a game and should be fun. Currently the grind to unlock things to do is everything but. Especially since you know they will add these things later. It becomes less and less appealing to start playing the game from the beginning tbh, since all the artificial gating disrupts any natural flow.
    Agreed.

    For the bold part: I'll be honest, I was "tricked" with people saying how amazing and different this expansion will be compared to BfA and Legion, so I jumped right in from the start. Was a huge mistake. I don't mind ALL of the gatings, renown gating fine, campaign gating fine, covenant gear upgrade gating fine, but what they are doing with anima is just horrendous.

  6. #306
    It is very smart to design something as the center of the expansion while players don't have the resource to unlock it.

    All those features will never be experienced so players can't complain how bad they are.

    Blizzard loves player drought.
    Last edited by ashblond; 2021-01-21 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    All the anima quests, genious.

    Must we really pretend we aren't talking about anima?

    And yes, it sounds like a horrendous task. Lets not forget these are not the kill 1 mob WQs we had. These take a long time and you will have to take your ground mount and flight path through the zones.
    Honestly the weekly 1k is enough torture.
    Jesus has blizzard spoiled people or what

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You keep talking about how much you can get per week/day without address the fact that people are talking to you about not wanting to grind WQ's every day for weeks.

    Yes you can get decent Anima income, if you grind yourself into boredom and burnout. That's the whole complaint, we don't want to grind daily's every day for weeks to unlock basic convenant features and buy a cosmetic item because its mind numbingly boring and after 2 expansions of mindlessly boring grind people are sick and tired of it.
    And i'm sick and tired about people calling anything requiring a modicum of effort a "grind" and wanting everything to be a participation prize. If what little play is required to get the necessary anima is to much for you, then the content isn't meant for you. You cannot make everything available to everybody.

    It's not like you necessarily have to do it at fastest rate possible, either. You'll just have to live with getting the rewards later in that case. You're constructing an issue that does not exist here, and the only person you have to blame for playing more than you want to is yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Jesus has blizzard spoiled people or what
    Yes, although they realised their error. Their main problem now is everybody whining about them trying to fix it.

  9. #309
    Well I am in the middle of the pack here I suppose. I agree, that people shouldn't expect rewards for 'not doing content'. And that Covenants are mostly optional, QOL, flavor things.
    But then again, only WQs = content?
    I mean, quite a portion of players have their jobs and personal life already, and probably can't afford to play more than 2-3h a day while keeping a somewhat healthy life-balance. So this average player will have to choose what content is he/she supposed to do to 1) have fun, 2) feel rewarded, 3) feel any kind of progress.
    And then comes the effort:gain:fun ratio. Subjective for everyone, of course, but still:
    Raids:
    Effort: on average 2-3h 2-3x a week
    Rewards: RNG based loot drops. 35 anima per boss (max. 385 per difficulty, max. 1155 not counting LFR); weekly lockout; Great Vault RNG fiesta
    Fun: Subjective, but overall 'endgame' content so considered universally most interesting
    M+:
    Effort: on average 30-45 mind per run of 10+ (might not be accurate on that, but I suppose somewhat close to that)
    Rewards: RNG based loot drops. 35 anima per run; farmable; Great Vault RNG fiesta
    Fun: Subjective, for me it's fun as it doesn't require huge undertaking and organization like raids, and doing it with good mates is great
    PVP (not done pretty much any so going to mostly assume based on what others said so far):
    Effort: Arena I guess 2-10 mins max per run, BG I guess 20-40 mins depending which one
    Rewards: Honor, Conquest. Probably some anima per run; farmable; Great Vault RNG fiesta; other stuff like mounts etc.
    Fun: Wasn't my cup of tea but considering it this expac, probably is fun
    WQs:
    Effort: Claimed to be up to 1h daily (anima only)
    Rewards: On average 600-800 anima daily (with some bonus up sometimes)
    Fun: Subjective, for me - not at all

    So an average casual player, can achieve weekly:
    1. Up to ~800-1000 anima from raid (probably won't clear all 3 difficulties in 3 days just yet; not considering LFR)
    2. Around 1300 anima from M+ if not raiding and ONLY doing M+
    3. Probably get also something around this worth of anima if doing ONLY PVP
    OR/AND
    4. Get around 7k anima if doing 1h anima WQs daily

    See the issue? Balancing seems out of place, and an average "casual", who would raid twice a week, do maybe 4 M+ for GV, try some PVP and get Torghast runs sorted if needed, would be left with something like 4k anima weekly tops, with maybe some spare time to run a few WQs or run legacy content, farm herbs, do social stuff.

    And then comes the guy/gal who feel like 1h of daily grind of WQs is nothing and if someone doesn't want if = he wants a reward without work. I get that, if you invest time you can get more anima. So wouldn't all be happier if you could invest the same time you invest now BUT ALSO get more anima from other content like raids, M+, PVP? So you would be gaining eg. 7k from WQs and another 7k from other content weekly? You would still be long ahead with unlocking everything if you choose so (hell let blizzard change the cap from 35k to 100k), but other players with more limited time won't feel like they are forced to do WQs INSTEAD of other content to be able to unlock anything at all. Because that feels like the waste of time.
    If 1 WQ is 35-140 anima, for as some claim 2 mins, let one M+ be 100-200 anima depending on level. Let one raid boss drop 100-200 anima depending on difficulty.
    Let people choose the content based on fun, not based on "I want that unlocked, so I have to do it no matter I hate it". If The rewards were MEANT to be earned with WQs, they would be awarded this way directly, or anima wouldn't be awarded anywhere outside WQs.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by volstadt View Post
    Rewards: RNG based loot drops. 35 anima per boss (max. 385 per difficulty, max. 1155 not counting LFR); weekly lockout; Great Vault RNG fiesta
    Unless they changed it recently, then no, you only get 35 anima per boss kill, no matter what difficulty, per week. At least in the past that ment a whopping 350 anima/week.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  11. #311
    not having any anima issues here, but probably because I do the PvP quests/dailies.

  12. #312
    I think they want that extra time played early on in the xpak.

    Also, because I believe we will get some relief in the form of flying mounts soon.

    Flying mounts will be enormously game-changing in these zones. The lack of a bird-whistle this xpak has truly reduced quality of life, but I also believe that is by design. I think they want flying mounts to be a gigantic functional organic gameplay upgrade that can prevent the need for some of the more obvious catch-up mechanisms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Well, we're coming up on 2 months into the expansion and I still haven't gone past level 2 on my covenant, so I'm missing out on a ton of content. That content is admittedly optional in terms of player power, but I would like to see it. Just not enough to grind anima. Also there are tons of cosmetics with each one costing thousands of anima which I'll probably never buy unless anima rewards are pretty drastically increased. It's a shame that covenant advancement, the expansion's biggest feature, is gated behind a grueling AP grind.

    Again this is still a huge improvement over past expansions because it's all optional, no player power. And it's a fantastic improvement that anima has a hard cap after which you literally don't care about it at all. These are good things. But it could be better.
    Yeah, I've also refused to grind for any currency this xpak. I haven't played as much as usual either. Sometimes if I feel something is just too much, I won't do it at all. I don't think it has directly reduced my power(well maybe a little) but it has demotivated me to play other parts of the game, which definitely hurts my player power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Jesus has blizzard spoiled people or what
    I think other games have spoiled people. Just having an arbitrary/generic grind isn't good enough anymore in a game. The grind itself has to be fun. Other games have figured out ways to accomplish this...even some other Blizzard games.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You keep talking about how much you can get per week/day without address the fact that people are talking to you about not wanting to grind WQ's every day for weeks.
    Because it isn't grinding in order to get it? And if people don't want to play a little bit of the game in order to get rewards then why do they care about the Sanctum upgrades? Because the entire reward from them are cosmetics or things to do in the world. If you find the game mind numbingly boring then maybe quit? Because it sounds like it isn't for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by volstadt View Post
    If 1 WQ is 35-140 anima, for as some claim 2 mins, let one M+ be 100-200 anima depending on level. Let one raid boss drop 100-200 anima depending on difficulty. Let people choose the content based on fun, not based on "I want that unlocked, so I have to do it no matter I hate it". If The rewards were MEANT to be earned with WQs, they would be awarded this way directly, or anima wouldn't be awarded anywhere outside WQs.
    But if you don't find world content fun why do you want to unlock more world content in the Sanctum upgrades? Because that is what you are working to unlock. Cosmetics and World content. It also isn't a 600-800 anima from World Quests. There is 1,050 up right now. That amount might vary by around 105 anima because one of the WQ is from the Anima Conductor. The rest are region wide and it is typical for the day. You can also do the Maldraxxus arena each day for 105 anima.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Yes you can get decent Anima income, if you grind yourself into boredom and burnout. That's the whole complaint, we don't want to grind daily's every day for weeks to unlock basic convenant features and buy a cosmetic item because its mind numbingly boring and after 2 expansions of mindlessly boring grind people are sick and tired of it.
    Exactly right. Grinding isn't fun for me. If it is for you, have at it.

    I'm skipping those systems entirely-- if anima gain isn't greatly increased, this expansion will end in 2 years and I still won't have my covenant upgraded.

    It's great that all that stuff isn't linked to player power so they don't feel mandatory. It's perfectly fine to skip them, it won't actually hurt you. Good stuff. But you know, it still sucks that I won't see a major part of the expansion.

    I have no way to prove it, but my feeling is a most people aren't willing to grind their fingers down to the bone for cosmetic crap. I bet Blizzard's metrics show that the vast majority of players are pulling in roughly 1500 anima per week.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2021-01-21 at 05:22 PM.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    It's great that all that stuff isn't linked to player power so they don't feel mandatory. It's perfectly fine to skip them, it won't actually hurt you. Good stuff. But you know, it still sucks that I won't see a major part of the expansion.
    If you find the choices you make suck then make a different choice. Stop trying to play a victim. It also isn't perfectly fine if you also think it sucks at the same time. You don't have to grind your fingers down to the bone. In an hour of play today I deposited 1,230 anima. I did one pet battle WQ, 9 Anima WQ, Two crafting WQ, 1 epic gear WQ so I can DE the crystal, and the Maldraxxus arena daily.

    In an hour. Started in Oribos and used my HS twice because the third time I still had 4 mins left for the last zone of WQ. An hour of play give or take based on your own personal speed is not grinding to the bone. How hard did you hyperbole when there actually were mind numbing grinds in the game?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    Game Devs: There's a great anima drought. As we fight back the forces of the jailer, you restore balance to the Shadowlands and make it not drought.
    Players: wHy SO wiTtlE ANimAs?!
    Players: We raided the place that was hoarding the Anima before it was sent to Jailer and defeated the guy responsible for it. Also, this place had so much of the stuff that it attracted a huge devourer that we have killed. Another boss was throwing anima bottles around like candy. They were draining Kael'thas of it. And yet, everything drops 35 anima.
    Intrinsc: DoeSN't MaTTer, ThErE iS a GReat ANima DroUght.

    Players: Also, if there really is so little anima, why does everything cost so much? Thousands and thousands to change armor color? Shouldn't vendors be grateful for much less? Or is it merely a pocket change for them - in which case, it's not much of a drought, is it?
    Intrinsc: I'm going to pretend stick to my "lore" explanation even though it doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2021-01-22 at 12:43 AM.

  17. #317
    Last week I finished the Covenant campaign stories, unlocked the last tier of Covenant gear upgrades, and upgraded the few pieces of the Covenant set I'm wearing and after that I had 157 anima left. I have unlocked the four Covenant features only to the first level. It seems impossible that I would ever acquire the 80,000 or whatever it will take to upgrade everything all the way, so I simply gave up on the whole process lol.

  18. #318
    My mind wandered into the headspace of this topic again today and since it's still going I'll share the perspective I've adopted regarding the logistical anima drought (not the lore-based one).

    I'm not doing any more 4-digit investitures of anima until I see if the rate is going to increase. I put a LOT of faith into the inevitable long game of WoW, seeing tier sets as "that thing I'll get in 2-4 years, looking forward to it," not going into alts until the catch-up systems are in place, and so on.

    That's where we are now, really: Waiting to see how deep the catch-up game is. The pre-flight game is meant for the average player to have one main and to consume all the daily/weekly bursts of content before they reset at their next interval. As soon as they have a second season, and a second tier, they can give catch-up gear that puts an alt easily at the end of the access level of the first tier, and I have a strong feeling that's going to come in the form of more anima and an assumption that anyone new has a fully maxed out covenant set within a week or two or somesuch, to then proceed to the 9.1 phase.

    Or they'll come up with another way to get a quick ilvl 200ish on your alts (or the patient main or mains that didn't go in deep on the launch quarter).

    The only time it is truly worth it to grind anything is in the expansion tail, when the expansion is fully unfolded and you'll most likely get the most mileage out of said grind.

    So, no, fully maxed out covenant sanctums aren't really intended this quarter. Can we get them? Sure. They're absolutely, objectively not worth it. Anima is best taken in at the trickle of the weekly quest, the mission table, and whatever you actually enjoy doing. If that results in "nothing," what are you doing playing?

    Now if you're ambitious and want, say, gladiator or that M+ mount... honestly I'm not the person to ask because I can't relate, and I see those lures as not speaking to me: I don't have a team to do team content, I have no place looking at team content rewards. I can get into groups, but I don't have a team. There's a difference.

    So yeah, this quarter's valid anima expenditures IMO are maybe lvl 1-2 of everything from your sanctum, and your armor set if you haven't upgraded beyond it. I for one am not spending 5 digits of any currency on anything while we get said currency in increments of 2-3 digits. There'll be a buff to anima accessibility, even if it's just flight and an understanding that everything in the open world is a given.

    The real wrenching catch-up will be at 9.2, when the covenant sets at their max rank aren't relevant even as a starting point any more. For BFA that was benthics. It'll be interesting to see what we get in shadowlands.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2021-01-22 at 01:20 AM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Players: We raided the place that was hoarding the Anima before it was sent to Jailer and defeated the guy responsible for it. Also, this place had so much of the stuff that it attracted a huge devourer that we have killed. Another boss was throwing anima bottles around like candy. They were draining Kael'thas of it. And yet, everything drops 35 anima.
    Intrinsc: DoeSN't MaTTer, ThErE iS a GReat ANima DroUght.

    Players: Also, if there really is so little anima, why does everything cost so much? Thousands and thousands to change armor color? Shouldn't vendors be grateful for much less? Or is it merely a pocket change for them - in which case, it's not much of a drought, is it?
    Intrinsc: I'm going to pretend stick to my "lore" explanation even though it doesn't make sense.
    To be fair, while we the players kill bosses and do stuff within days/weeks of them being released, the story normally does not move along until the next patch. As far as the game world is concerned Denatrius is alive and well hold up inside the castle until 9.1
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    To be fair, while we the players kill bosses and do stuff within days/weeks of them being released, the story normally does not move along until the next patch. As far as the game world is concerned Denatrius is alive and well hold up inside the castle until 9.1
    Actually, according to the story he's beaten already. However, the mistake comes from assuming the anima is now freely available to us.

    You're all acting like those anima containers are just free for us to take, rather than being needed by the Covenants to keep things from falling apart. Literally.

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