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  1. #161
    There's always some degree of grind, yes. That doesn't make it fun, unless you like grinding. "It's always been this way" doesn't excuse poor design.

    The problem is these systems aren't supposed to be fun-- they are thinly disguised retention mechanisms. That's their design goal and they effectively do that. So this comes down to intention rather than implementation. The devs want it this way because WoW is a subscription title and they need some sort of infinite or high-capped progression to keep players engaged.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2021-01-18 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Simply put, I don't enjoy grinding for AP. Doing every WQ? Hell with that!

    If you do enjoy it, that's great for you. It does not invalidate my experience.

    @crusadernero: Yes, this is an obvious retention mechanism and to be fair, again, unlike previous expansions it's all optional and that's a huge improvement. Blizzard is learning! But it could be better-- let the gameplay stand on its own without these artificial gates requiring what I, and many other players, consider to be un-fun grinding.
    Thats very true. We arent required to do this in order to progress our character, and thats a very good thing. That said, they should make sure that players get to actually take part in this and actually make use of the buildings instead of just dropping it.

    Theres something there for Blizzard to capitalize on. Like with class halls, mage tower, torghast++, its nice having something else do do on your own. Sadly the prices are to steep

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    @rhorle: We fundamentally disagree on this.
    So why won't you answer why it is bad that you have to play parts of the game in order to get rewarded? It isn't a matter of fundamentally disagreeing it is a matter of you wanting everything with out having to do anything.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #164
    I understand if they want the sanctum features to be unlocked gradually throughout the expansion, but why are the cosmetic things so fucking expensive?

    "Here, for 5k anima you can upgrade a sanctum feature to rank 2 OR you can buy a bulb with a moth on it!"

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    ask yourself - how would it hurt the game if getting more anima was in place? How would it hurt the game if more people would interact and use these buildings each covenant has? THis is just another attempt to get people playing and playing, farming and farming for miniscule rewards.
    How much more anima do you want? I am sitting at 7k and I still haven't done the weekly dungeon or PvP quests and those reward 250 anima each. You can't complain that there is no anima while also saying you don't want to do anything in order to anima. Doing a half dozen WQ a day in order to get anima is not a grind.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why won't you answer why it is bad that you have to play parts of the game in order to get rewarded? It isn't a matter of fundamentally disagreeing it is a matter of you wanting everything with out having to do anything.
    This right here is a standard crappy MMO forum response. Don't attack the poster with garbage like "you want everything for free, learn2play". Post like an adult. Engage in conversation, don't jump in guns blazing.

    I went into a fair bit of detail in my posts in this thread-- respond to that instead. Or don't, I can't imagine anyone will actually listen on the internet, shrug.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I admit it isnt a make it or break it issue but has anyone else found it a struggle to simply escape together enough anima to upgrade your covenant much less buy any of the cosmetics?

    I admit the content I enjoy doesn't overly reward anima but it does strike me as odd just how hard to come by it is.
    What you mean rare? I get 35 anima from every M+ and raid boss. Fuck it is the only thing i get.

  8. #168
    Some of the cool looking cosmetic Renown gear is like 5,000 Anima, for each piece. So just the helm + shoulders together is like 10,000 anima. How the hell do you save up for all that?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    There's always some degree of grind, yes. That doesn't make it fun, unless you like grinding. "It's always been this way" doesn't excuse poor design.

    The problem is these systems aren't supposed to be fun-- they are thinly disguised retention mechanisms. That's their design goal and they effectively do that. So this comes down to intention rather than implementation. The devs want it this way because WoW is a subscription title and they need some sort of infinite or high-capped progression to keep players engaged.
    with exception of single covenant building (court/garden/stitchers/whatever kyrians have) there is no content locked behind anima, and for this single building you will be actualy more gated with souls, everything else is completely optional, so if you dont want to grind just dont, you will literaly miss nothing important, just cosmetics...

  10. #170
    Yes we covered that. All this stuff is indeed completely optional, and that's a great improvement.

  11. #171
    If all you're doing is instanced content then it's rare otherwise no it's not at all

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Some of the cool looking cosmetic Renown gear is like 5,000 Anima, for each piece. So just the helm + shoulders together is like 10,000 anima. How the hell do you save up for all that?
    do you remember garrison/war/order hall resources? at first we were strugling to get some, on the end of expansions we had tens of thousands and nothing to do with them... i expect this to be very similar

  13. #173
    He didn't say it was rare, he said it was "hard to come by", meaning it takes a lot of grinding to actually buy anything when a boss rewards 35 anima and cloak transmogs cost 5000.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    He didn't say it was rare, he said it was "hard to come by", meaning it takes a lot of grinding to actually buy anything when a boss rewards 35 anima and cloak transmogs cost 5000.
    Getting anima from a boss reward is not the primary source. Just do the world quests each day and you will have way more then doing a boss. Lol. You are complaining that a 100% optional thing is a grind by ignoring all the parts where you don't even have to grind to get a lot of anima. Weird right? Almost like you have an agenda and only can see what supports that agenda.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #175
    "You have an agenda and only can see what supports that agenda" is the sort of crappy MMO forum post I made my heartfelt plea for you to avoid, rhorle. I'm super duper surprised you didn't see the light. I'm going to stop responding to you now.

    Regarding previous expansions, they were all extremely easy to get in comparison to anima. Garrison resources regenerated passively, order hall resources dropped by the hundreds from WQs and emissaries awarded 1000, and war resources nobody cared about because they were only used for the mission table which didn't reward meaningful gold in BFA (thankfully).

  16. #176
    maybe devs thought players would grind it as much as artifact power, but theres no need to.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why is it bad that you have to actually play parts of the game?
    The issue is the effort vs reward ratio is off, not that its wrong to have to play the game.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Regarding previous expansions, they were all extremely easy to get in comparison to anima. Garrison resources regenerated passively, order hall resources dropped by the hundreds from WQs and emissaries awarded 1000, and war resources nobody cared about because they were only used for the mission table which didn't reward meaningful gold in BFA (thankfully).
    So why is anima such an issue to you when it is largely on the same level as war resources? You do sound like you're far more interested in being mad at something than making any actual attempt at discussion.

    Getting enough anima to support adventures is trivial. Everything else doesn't provide any meaningful power gains and is thus completely optional.

    Order hall resources weren't that plentiful in early Legion, either. Once everybody had all the important tasks finished, it just kept piling up. Anima will be the same.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The issue is the effort vs reward ratio is off, not that its wrong to have to play the game.
    An hour or so of world quests each day to get around 1k a day is off? What more do you want with out having to play the game?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    with exception of single covenant building (court/garden/stitchers/whatever kyrians have) there is no content locked behind anima, and for this single building you will be actualy more gated with souls, everything else is completely optional, so if you dont want to grind just dont, you will literaly miss nothing important, just cosmetics...
    Except the souls gate takes 10min a week and you gain more souls per trip every few weeks. If you spend 10 minutes collecting Anima every week you will not be buying that covenant building this year.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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