M+ reward suggestion

[Av3rag3 Jo3]

Currently M+ feels unrewarding and there are a lot of discussions about it. It seems Blizzard hit the sweetspot with pvp.

So hereby my suggestion for a different reward structure for m+.

Only m0 drops gear. The gear you get is at rank 1 and ilvl 184.

M+ gives you a currency to upgrade rank 1 mythic dungeon gear. The higher m+ you do the more currency you get. A run in time will give more currency than a run out of time. Furthermore the currency is based on the dungeon timer. Dungeons with longer timers reward more currency. This way all dungeons keep their value for M+.

Like with pvp your skill (rating/highest m+) will decide to which rank you can upgrade gear. For example you have a trinket from Halls of Atonement. You can upgrade that trinket to a rank related to the highest Halls of Atonement you cleared in time. The item rank is related to the dungeon where the item is found. So people can’t buy a boost from the easiest dungeon and upgrade all there gear to max level.

Use the following ranks.
Rank 1 - M0 - ilvl 184
Rank 2 - M2 - ilvl 186
Rank 3 - M3 - ilvl 188
Rank 4 - M4 - ilvl 192 (bigger jump due to finishing with affix)
Rank 5 - M5 - ilvl 194
Rank 6 - M6 - ilvl 196
Rank 7 - M7 - ilvl 200 (bigger jump due to finising with two affixes)
Rank 8 - M8 - ilvl 202
Rank 9 - M9 - ilvl 204
Rank 10 - M10 - ilvl 210 (bigger jump due to finising with the seasonal affixes)
Rank 11 - M11 - ilvl 212
Rank 12 - M12 - ilvl 214
Rank 13 - M13 - ilvl 216
Rank 14 - M14 - ilvl 218
Rank 15 - M15 - ilvl 220
Rank 16 - M16 - ilvl 222
Rank 17 - M17 - ilvl 224
Rank 18 - M18 - ilvl 226
Rank 19 - M19 - ilvl 229 (only for weapons)
Rank 20 - M20 - ilvl 233 (only for weapons)

Futhermore the vault rewards should have the same rank as the dungeon you finished. So if your highest 4 runs are 10, 9, 9 and 8. The first option should be a rank 10 item (so ilvl 210) and the second option should be a rank 8 item (so ilvl 202). Futhermore the loot tables used should contain only dungeons you finished at that rank. If you finished only Sangiun Depths on m10 than you first option will be from Sangiun Depths. If you finished 5 dungeons on 8 or higher, than the second option will be from those dungeons. The loot table is not weekly based but all time.

A nice to have would be if you don’t have an option you want, that you can get 50% of the currency that it would take to upgrade to the rank of option 1.

Last I would really like it if the anima amount you get at the end of the dungeon would be related to the level of the m+ so m10 gives more anima than m2.

I hope Blizzard do something soon and not wait till patch 9.1. At the moment at lot of people I play with including myself are losing the motivation to do mythic+ while we had fun at the beginning of the season.

[Sialina]

210 for rank 10 is way way way too much, nearly anyone can do 10 in their sleep. m+ 15 could be 213 ilvl, or perhaps m+ 16, then perhaps 220 at 18 or so. Remember, this is repeatable content, and only requires 5 people, it needs to be harder than the raid since the raid requires 10+ people.

[Relapses]

I'd rather not gear up via shopping list simulator a la WotLK.

Also, these item levels are ridiculous. It'd outright end Mythic raiding if it were possible to get 233s from +20s.

[Lolites]

i dont think this is good solution...
people would buy the boost to get high rank and run low keys to get easy currency and gear, or even if not getting boosted people would run high dungeons once and done, no point in doing it again if you can get currency easier
obviously people who enjoy pushing high keys are different, but casuals would definitely find the way of least resistance, which with this system means more low level dungeons

[ldev]

Mythic is already a free loot piñata. Complete M14, don't fucking even time it - free ilvl226 gear. Are you kidding me?

And now you wanna give spammable rewards?

Wtf is wrong with dungeon facerollers? How can they cry that dungeons are unrewarding, when literally majority of my gear is from dungeon vaults, because loot drops in raids once every two weeks and ilvl from raiding vault is shit.

[Biomega]

How can they cry that dungeons are unrewarding, when literally majority of my gear is from dungeon vaults, because loot drops in raids once every two weeks and ilvl from raiding vault is shit.

That's the thing, though - they are complaining BECAUSE the majority of gear is from the VAULT, not from actual dungeons. And let's be clear, raids not dropping shit is also something people complain about it's not isolated to dungeons.

While nobody (or very few people) wants to completely replace raiding with dungeons, it does feel kinda shitty when you're doing 5 dungeons and get 0 item drops. And it also feels shitty if you clear 10/10 raid and get 0 drops; or even just 1.

We all understand that they're doing it to extend content, but it just feels so damn unrewarding atm it's really bumming people out.

[Av3rag3 Jo3]

Have you done m+ and pvp recently. Gearing via RBG isn't that hard either and will get you 220 at 2400 rating. Why should m+ be much harder than pvp. Futhermore finishing +7 with a pug is already a challenge. Doing +10 while sleeping is impossible. At least for the majority of players. If you look at the % of the player base who completed all dungeons at +20. That isn't a large group.

[Sialina]

Have you done m+ and pvp recently. Gearing via RBG isn't that hard either and will get you 220 at 2400 rating. Why should m+ be much harder than pvp. Futhermore finishing +7 with a pug is already a challenge. Doing +10 while sleeping is impossible. At least for the majority of players. If you look at the % of the player base who completed all dungeons at +20. That isn't a large group.

But you suggested m+ 15 giving 220 loot, and as someone with 2200+ RBG rating and tons and tons of dungeons done at 15, yea, 15 is very very easy compared to 2200. Also, again, m+ is repeatable, I do agree that at 18 or so rewarding 220 is quite ok, but you can't go higher, then that is the only way to gear for mythic. 18 is also a lot harder than heroic raiding. But you have 5 people and you can run it as much as you want.

[klaps_05]

What i would like to also see is instead of a static amount of keys done for full vault, make it scale with keys.

For example, if u want 3 choices, you can do 10x +14 keys like now.
If you do a +16, that should count as 2x +14 keys. A +20 should count as 5x +14 key.

[thunderdragon2]

I'd rather not gear up via shopping list simulator a la WotLK.

Also, these item levels are ridiculous. It'd outright end Mythic raiding if it were possible to get 233s from +20s.

agreed id rater see a boost to the number of drops than to the item level m+ was to lucrative in bfa that's why it was toned down

[ldev]

That's the thing, though - they are complaining BECAUSE the majority of gear is from the VAULT, not from actual dungeons. And let's be clear, raids not dropping shit is also something people complain about it's not isolated to dungeons.

While nobody (or very few people) wants to completely replace raiding with dungeons, it does feel kinda shitty when you're doing 5 dungeons and get 0 item drops. And it also feels shitty if you clear 10/10 raid and get 0 drops; or even just 1.

We all understand that they're doing it to extend content, but it just feels so damn unrewarding atm it's really bumming people out.

Well if Mythic drops gear, and Raids don't, what's the point of raids? What's the point of having 20 people practicing together as a group, when you can PuG a foking dungeon all week and be geared in week and in 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 you won't even need to learn new tactics, because, it's the same fucking dungeons.

[Biomega]

Well if Mythic drops gear, and Raids don't, what's the point of raids? What's the point of having 20 people practicing together as a group, when you can PuG a foking dungeon all week and be geared in week and in 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 you won't even need to learn new tactics, because, it's the same fucking dungeons.

Because a) that's how some people prefer their content, not everyone likes big groups; and b) raid gear can still be better without gimping drops to oblivion, it worked in Legion and it worked in BFA.

[Kaver]

I'd rather not gear up via shopping list simulator a la WotLK.

Also, these item levels are ridiculous. It'd outright end Mythic raiding if it were possible to get 233s from +20s.

But it’s possible to get 233 from top end PvP and that doesn’t end raiding. All the top raiders already have access to that PvP gear. And the amount of players who are able to do +20 keys is still really low. I don’t see why the PvP and M+ couldn’t be similar.

[thunderdragon2]

Because a) that's how some people prefer their content, not everyone likes big groups; and b) raid gear can still be better without gimping drops to oblivion, it worked in Legion and it worked in BFA.

and i for 1 hate time content only reason i'm doing m+ is the vault, i only do 4 a week trying to pug 4 9-12 is stressful enough never mind 10

[Av3rag3 Jo3]

But you suggested m+ 15 giving 220 loot, and as someone with 2200+ RBG rating and tons and tons of dungeons done at 15, yea, 15 is very very easy compared to 2200. Also, again, m+ is repeatable, I do agree that at 18 or so rewarding 220 is quite ok, but you can't go higher, then that is the only way to gear for mythic. 18 is also a lot harder than heroic raiding. But you have 5 people and you can run it as much as you want.

But are you comparing apples with apples or oranges? Are you doing RBG with a similar team as those +15? So are you doing RBG with a dedicated pvp roster and +15 with a dedicated group of dungeons spammers? Just wondering. Because the stories I hear and my own experience are completely the opposite. Especially if I compare doing RBG and M+ via the looking for group option.

In my opinion if you can get max gear via pvp, you should also be able to get max gear via m+. If you want Mythic Raiding to be special, don't give pvp the possibility to get the same ilvl. I don't mind that. But if pvp is equal to mythic raiding than so should m+.

Which ilvl for which m+ is debatable indead. Blizzard could just start with a setting and change it if needed.

Last but not least. This isn't in anyway a comment on the raid loot drops. I agree that there are improvements needed for raids, but my focus is m+.

[Biomega]

and i for 1 hate time content only reason i'm doing m+ is the vault, i only do 4 a week trying to pug 4 9-12 is stressful enough never mind 10

That's totally fine, M+ being actually rewarding doesn't translate to raids being NOT rewarding, or less rewarding. You can have one without diminishing the other.

Wasn't that supposed to be the whole idea behind M+? To give people an alternative, rather than forcing everyone into one or the other? I guess that doesn't work with their "everyone needs to do everything so they stay subbed longer" model that made me not renew my subscription.

[thunderdragon2]

But it’s possible to get 233 from top end PvP and that doesn’t end raiding. All the top raiders already have access to that PvP gear. And the amount of players who are able to do +20 keys is still really low. I don’t see why the PvP and M+ couldn’t be similar.

pvp is a separate thing altogether also it takes a while to get up to the rating for that and to buy everything atm the caps only 3500 conq that's still not enough for a whole set after buying the weapon last week especially if you are a duel wield class.

on top of that not everyone is good enough to get to the raiding required to get mythic level gear form pvp

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That's totally fine, M+ being actually rewarding doesn't translate to raids being NOT rewarding, or less rewarding. You can have one without diminishing the other.

Wasn't that supposed to be the whole idea behind M+? To give people an alternative, rather than forcing everyone into one or the other? I guess that doesn't work with their "everyone needs to do everything so they stay subbed longer" model that made me not renew my subscription.

atm it is the alternative neither raiding or m+ is very rewarding when it comes to gearing so...if they beef up 1 they need to beef up the other otherwise 1 will be obsolete

[Kaver]

pvp is a separate thing altogether also it takes a while to get up to the rating for that and to buy everything atm the caps only 3500 conq that's still not enough for a whole set after buying the weapon last week especially if you are a duel wield class.

on top of that not everyone is good enough to get to the raiding required to get mythic level gear form pvp

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atm it is the alternative neither raiding or m+ is very rewarding when it comes to gearing so...if they beef up 1 they need to beef up the other otherwise 1 will be obsolete

But you can apply the exact same system to M+. You can also apply a cap to M+. And in terms of difficulty it also takes a lot of skill to do +20 keys. Only the very best players are able to push +20 keys right now and they are only able to because they got good gear from PvP and BOEs. Every top M+ player are partly getting geared in PvP.

[Huntermyth]

holy hell, do not compare 2200 rbg rating with +15 mythic dungeons please.

unpredictable vs scripted to say the least.

former is way and i mean it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than the latter. did i say way ? good.

[Av3rag3 Jo3]

atm it is the alternative neither raiding or m+ is very rewarding when it comes to gearing so...if they beef up 1 they need to beef up the other otherwise 1 will be obsolete

I made this post just from a m+ perspective compared to pvp. I would love to see a raider doing the same from a raid perspective. I think most if not all people agree that the pvp gearing system is the best at the moment and better than it has been recently. I'm just hoping Blizzard will change m+ and raiding for raiders to a similar spot.