Will TBC be better than Classic?

[Hofsa]

kael was unkilable,so attunements couldnt be completed,but this likely wont be the case in classic,and black temple is gated only by the attunement,so people will do it and completly skip to t6

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Kael and Vashj only dropped 1 attument quest item per kill at that time tho, so it would have taken 25 weeks for all to get attuned if they were killable, think this lasted maybe 1 or 2 weeks after they were fixed aswell.

[anon5123]

TBC is a direct improvement of vanilla in almost every aspect, yes.

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It's funny actually, when classic was first announced, we saw the battle between No Changes, and Classic+ frame of minds. TBC can be seen as Classic+ in a way. It added a lot of QOL changes, especially in terms of class balance.

Which is what I've been saying for a while, yes. Why would we ever need a "classic+" when that is essentially what TBC is?

[Altariaz]

Just an honest question.

I feel like classic was good for what it was, I played and leveled 2 toons to 60.
I subsequently quit after the "pvp leaders" on my realm wouldn't let me push brackets and subsequently kept getting my account temp banned(By the time the GM overturned the ban it killed my push for that week) So I quit.
Anyway that is another story.

Back on topic, I feel like TBC was cleaner and more fun than Classic.

I think there was enough to do to keep people busy, and I feel like the gear made sense. Meaning that they have stats that you can push for that make sense. (Uncrushable, hit cap, so on and so forth)

Do you think that TBC will be better than classic and will have a playerbase that sticks around a little bit more?

To be fair, you can't beat Classic (which is the closest thing we have to the greatest videogame ever, Vanilla WoW). TBC will be great though. It was a top expansion. No matter how TBC is rolled out, the option to play Classic at any time must be retained.

[Demithio]

Additionally in regards to dungeons. The cool thing about Vanilla dungeons is that they had a place in the world, and sometimes needed to be discovered. In TBC, they are grouped together in dungeon hubs. I wish they were a bit more spread out.

That is basically the only "complaint" I have, if you can even call it that lol.

Yes, I have to agree. TBC started the "compartmentalized" dungeon locations (for the lack of a better word), whereas vanilla dungeons were more "organic". However, the two highly varied, vast, continents of vanilla helped with this a great deal. Dungeons for vanilla, raids for TBC.

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To be fair, you can't beat Classic (which is the closest thing we have to the greatest videogame ever, Vanilla WoW). TBC will be great though. It was a top expansion. No matter how TBC is rolled out, the option to play Classic at any time must be retained.

Vanilla was alive and well during TBC, due to new races and alts. I don't seeing it being different this time around. I recall leveling alt(s) during TBC, and the (nearly) full vanilla experience was there. The only things missing were the special quests like the .5 armor quest chain (still there but pointless) and vanilla events. Vanilla raids of course, were also pointless. All the dungeon crawling and questing were still present. As far as having separate classic and tbc servers, that may be questionable.

[Rageadon]

TBC is a direct improvement of vanilla in almost every aspect, yes.

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Which is what I've been saying for a while, yes. Why would we ever need a "classic+" when that is essentially what TBC is?

Think it all comes down to they dont want to go to Outland and lvl to 70

[kranur]

Additionally in regards to dungeons. The cool thing about Vanilla dungeons is that they had a place in the world, and sometimes needed to be discovered. In TBC, they are grouped together in dungeon hubs. I wish they were a bit more spread out.

That is basically the only "complaint" I have, if you can even call it that lol.

You mean unlike the dungeon hubs of vanilla? There are like 5 dungeons that aren't grouped in a hub with 1-3 more.

[Puri]

TBC is a massive improvement over classic in many terms of the game, most importantly class (and spec) balance and the change of the PVP system, and that there are ways to reaonably gear up without raiding (or PVPing) - although I don't believe many people are going to casually play BC (or any "classic" xpac version).

My gripe with the coming TBC servers is that they will (most likely, obviously no one knows 100%) start with TBCs final patch changes, which means you are going to get OP aoe pala tanks which are going to trivialize many of the heroic dungeons (and several raid encounters).

[Altariaz]

Vanilla was alive and well during TBC, due to new races and alts. I don't seeing it being different this time around. I recall leveling alt(s) during TBC, and the (nearly) full vanilla experience was there. The only things missing were the special quests like the .5 armor quest chain (still there but pointless) and vanilla events. Vanilla raids of course, were also pointless. All the dungeon crawling and questing were still present. As far as having separate classic and tbc servers, that may be questionable.

No, not really.
How can you argue that "Vanilla was alive and well during TBC"? That's nonsense argument. In fact, you seem to be suggesting that on a Classic TBC server, the Classic WoW experience will remain, expect in all the the many ways that it will be different. Not a convincing argument.
When TBC hit, player focus was understandably directed to the new expansion, and that had a direct and significant impact on the old world experience. The Classic WoW experience will be fundamentally different on a Classic TBC server. Just a few examples: The TBC talent trees herald a significant change to the Classic WoW experience, horde have paladins and alliance shamans, the fact that players will go to outland at lvl 58, not 60 and that few will run dungeons to prepare for Classic raids (and that the latter won't be run, except at lvl 70 for fun), and that Shattrath will become the new main city (SW/IF will be be deserted) all underline how different the Classic WoW experience will be on a Classic TBC server. When TBC hit, the Vanilla experience was very different; similar will apply if/when Classic TBC appears.
The Classic WoW experience and Classic TBC experience cannot co-exist on a TBC server. Hence, if we want to retain the Classic WoW experience, we need dedicated Classic WoW servers; similar applies if we want to retain the Classic TBC experience if Classic WotLK becomes a prospect.

[thilicen]

TBC was the most fun I ever had with PvP, I'll play it just for that.

[Nurzei]

TBC is a massive improvement over classic in many terms of the game, most importantly class (and spec) balance and the change of the PVP system, and that there are ways to reaonably gear up without raiding (or PVPing) - although I don't believe many people are going to casually play BC (or any "classic" xpac version).

My gripe with the coming TBC servers is that they will (most likely, obviously no one knows 100%) start with TBCs final patch changes, which means you are going to get OP aoe pala tanks which are going to trivialize many of the heroic dungeons (and several raid encounters).

Maybe, but as far as I'm informed, the reason blizz chose a later vanilla patch was because they didnt have data from the earlier ones. That likely wont be an issue for TBC, so theyre free to choose whatever patch they deem the most fitting, or do whatever progression they like.

[javierdsv]

Ah that juicy restoration druid owning everything there is and flying for gold... Of course it will be better.

[Kralljin]

You mean unlike the dungeon hubs of vanilla? There are like 5 dungeons that aren't grouped in a hub with 1-3 more.

1.Deadmines
2.Wailing Caverns
3.Ragefire Chasm
4.Blackfathom deeps
5.Zul'farrak
6.Sunken Temple
7.Stratholme
8.Scholomance
9.Stockades
10.Gnomeregan
11.Uldaman
12.Shadowfang Keep
13.Maraudon

I think the only hub that really follows the "TBC Layout" is SM and DM, i think what's also important to note here is that the dungeons were in their design vastly different.
Some people might argue that BRD is also a massive hub, but i argue that it's different because the dungeons contained in there are so vastly different, BRD cannot be compared to LBRS / UBRS in terms of design, both dungeons are pretty unique in their own right.
They are in the same location, but the dungeons contained in there are very different.

Nevermind that no other place compared to Blackrock mountain exists in Classic.

Compare a dungeon like Mana Tombs to Auchenai crypts, those dungeons are very similiar in terms of layout and length, disregarding that neither contains any special reason to go in there outside of loot.

Nevermind that in TBC, every (dungeon) hub follows a very similiar formula:
2-3 dungeons + 1 Raid.
Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang Reservior, Tempest keep and Caverns time are pretty damn similiar by comparison.

The only one that breaks away as far as dungeons are concerned is Auchindoun, which has 4 dungeons but no raid and MT, which is not packed together with any other dungeon.

[Kathandira]

You mean unlike the dungeon hubs of vanilla? There are like 5 dungeons that aren't grouped in a hub with 1-3 more.

How about 11?

Ragefire Chasm
Wailing Caverns
The Deadmines
Shadowfang Keep
The Stockade
Blackfathom Deeps
Gnomeregan
Uldaman
Zul'Farrak
The Temple of Atal'Hakkar
Scholomance

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lol beat me to it. In my list I excluded DM, Strat, and BRM dungeons as there are multiple dungeons in one area. But I also agree with what you say about BRM as BRD and BRS are pretty different.

Technically, both Strats are the same dungeon since they are connected. We just use two different entrances based on the run we are looking to do.

[vashe9]

It's funny actually, when classic was first announced, we saw the battle between No Changes, and Classic+ frame of minds. TBC can be seen as Classic+ in a way. It added a lot of QOL changes, especially in terms of class balance.

And I remember back in 2005 people were saying "TBC will kill wow" "now Wow is for filthy casuals" "Vanilla was better" "Blood elfs will ruin the Horde" "Flying will kill this game and PVP" ect ect XD

Same thing every expansion it's hilarious...

[Kathandira]

And I remember back in 2005 people were saying "TBC will kill wow" "now Wow is for filthy casuals" "Vanilla was better" "Blood elfs will ruin the Horde" "Flying will kill this game and PVP" ect ect XD

Same thing every expansion it's hilarious...

More or less. Can't please all the people all the time.

[Kralljin]

And I remember back in 2005 people were saying "TBC will kill wow" "now Wow is for filthy casuals" "Vanilla was better" "Blood elfs will ruin the Horde" "Flying will kill this game and PVP" ect ect XD

Ah, yes and i remember all the complaints like "Thunderforging ruined loot".

Wait, what?
It led to Titanforging? A very unpopular system?
How can it be? I thought complainers were always wrong!

[vashe9]

Ah, yes and i remember all the complaints like "Thunderforging ruined loot".

Wait, what?
It led to Titanforging? A very unpopular system?
How can it be? I thought complainers were always wrong!

There are good and bad complaints. Do you mean that complainers are always right ?

"Flying will kill the game" ect were not true. And I remember being part of the crowd who said Raid 25 would kill the raiding "scene". That was false too, 20M raids are a LOT better than 40M raids.

Doomsayers have been predicting the "death of wow" every single expansion and so far they were all wrong...

And thunderforging was only introduced in MoP btw...

[anon5123]

How can it be? I thought complainers were always wrong!

His point is that people have been crying "WoW is dead" and "___ will kill WoW" ever since the goddamn game launched.

16 years later and WoW is still not dead.

[Kralljin]

There are good and bad complaints. Do you mean that complainers are always right ?

His point is that people have been crying "WoW is dead" and "___ will kill WoW" ever since the goddamn game launched.

No, i'm pointing out that there is some merit to certain complaints and simply because we're on the Internet where Hyperbole is omnipresent, doesn't change that.

Take your "Blood elves will ruin the horde", well, if that somebody really liked the savage image of the Horde, Blood elves were a massive departure from that, especially looking now that blood elves are one the most popular (if not the most popular) race in WoW.
So yeah, for those people, it was a huge blow.

And all the complaints about flying also seems rather ironic under the fact that there was a point in recent history where the devs actually agreed with that and wanted to remove flying from the current expansion, disregarding that pathfinder is still a controversial thing.

Doomsayers have been predicting the "death of wow" every single expansion and so far they were all wrong...

That's like toying around with a knife, somebody yelling at you "stop that, you'll kill yourself", ignore him, accidentally cut yourself and you go "well, you're wrong, it didn't kill me".

Sure, he's technically wrong, but that doesn't mean that warning you was unjustified.

And thunderforging was only introduced in MoP btw...

And what does this have to do with anything?

[Daffan]

Just an honest question.

I feel like classic was good for what it was, I played and leveled 2 toons to 60.
I subsequently quit after the "pvp leaders" on my realm wouldn't let me push brackets and subsequently kept getting my account temp banned(By the time the GM overturned the ban it killed my push for that week) So I quit.
Anyway that is another story.

Back on topic, I feel like TBC was cleaner and more fun than Classic.

I think there was enough to do to keep people busy, and I feel like the gear made sense. Meaning that they have stats that you can push for that make sense. (Uncrushable, hit cap, so on and so forth)

Do you think that TBC will be better than classic and will have a playerbase that sticks around a little bit more?

tbc is better in a lot of areas but also worse

the welfare is real bad, game will auto complete itself and now people know all the timeline release 'steps' so will meta game everything regarding IoQ, arena and heroic currency.

remember how tons of people said classic was gonna be trash because its gonna be way too easy? ok TBC is gonna be exactly like that but now welfare is everywhere so the time gating portion that classic had from tiny loot is irrelevant.