Will TBC be better than Classic?

[Kralljin]

If your opinion of the recent expansion is based solely on the beta then you can't really form a proper opinion because you haven't played on live.. The beta was not at all the final representation.

A (late) Beta generally gives you a good idea of the coming content, especially if said content is questing which is basically the groundwork of any expansion.

Mind you, we're not talking here about endgame related stuff, we're talking about fucking questing, content that is usually the first thing finished for an expansion in terms of gameplay.

Are you purposely being obtuse? My point was gear doesn't really matter for the majority of Classic's end game. Sure gear can boost your performance but it's 100% not needed. The only person grasping at straws is you right now.

Considering that i seemingly have to explain to a person who has been posting on this site nearly a decade that some people enjoy progression for its own sake in an MMORPG, then i think i'm not the one who's being obtuse.

Why do you think people farmed Ny'alotha until the release of SL?
Because they needed the gear to quest in SL?

[Tsyplenk]

A (late) Beta generally gives you a good idea of the coming content, especially if said content is questing which is basically the groundwork of any expansion.

Mind you, we're not talking here about endgame related stuff, we're talking about fucking questing, content that is usually the first thing finished for an expansion in terms of gameplay.

Considering that i seemingly have to explain to a person who has been posting on this site nearly a decade that some people enjoy progression for its own sake in an MMORPG, then i think i'm not the one who's being obtuse.

Why do you think people farmed Ny'alotha until the release of SL?
Because they needed the gear to quest in SL?

Wouldn't bother mate, he's clearly foaming at the mouth so hard with his undying hate for Classic that any logical sentiment goes straight out the window.

[deenman]

Hi, can you explain what you mean by this? was T5 buggy on release which is what made it difficult?

kael was unkilable,so attunements couldnt be completed,but this likely wont be the case in classic,and black temple is gated only by the attunement,so people will do it and completly skip to t6

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So games should be difficult not because of the game, but because of unintended bugs and glitches?

Lol.

its a #nochanges things,they say they want no changes,but clearly they do

[Joycemiester]

My point and I'm sure you got it was that classic was released with a lot of buffs to players and nerfs to pve npcs and encounters.
Let's start TBC without that. Fix the bugs fine but do not make it easier.

You are very correct about classic, nerfs and how TBC preferably should be handled.
But the chance of this happening is extremely slim.

Most likely we get the Classic treatment, with TBC releasing at 2.4.3 core, with all nerfs and only content gated.
Maybe T5 raids won't even be available at release, as it was in retail TBC.... (This is the best and only likely change to happen)

Looking to classic, will answer most questions on how Blizzard will handle this Classic-TBC, they will never put more resources into this project than needed.

Blizzard were giving the community what they wanted in a classic release but they (blizzard) were cynical about it and I agree they put as little resource into it as they could get away with.
After seeing that the longevity of classic surpassed what they would have expected they should now make the changes you and I would like to see. Infact I'd buff npcs and raid encounters for the modern day. Infact I'd buff npcs and raid encounters for the modern day
I'm not sure I'll bother raiding if it's released as 2.4.

its a #nochanges things,they say they want no changes,but clearly they do

No changes went too far in classic. The no change was originally for me and many about keeping the quality of life changes out of classic that were brought to the modern game. They overlooked how changed the game would be compared to their memories when playing it from release in patch 1.12.
No changes did in fact change the game to a watered down version, some people liked it of course.

[Sinyc]

Just an honest question.

I feel like classic was good for what it was, I played and leveled 2 toons to 60.
I subsequently quit after the "pvp leaders" on my realm wouldn't let me push brackets and subsequently kept getting my account temp banned(By the time the GM overturned the ban it killed my push for that week) So I quit.
Anyway that is another story.

Back on topic, I feel like TBC was cleaner and more fun than Classic.

I think there was enough to do to keep people busy, and I feel like the gear made sense. Meaning that they have stats that you can push for that make sense. (Uncrushable, hit cap, so on and so forth)

Do you think that TBC will be better than classic and will have a playerbase that sticks around a little bit more?

It definitely can be better, but Blizzard will have to make some subtle changes. For example Blood Elf Pallys. Unless Blizzard doesn't care about the current imbalance on many classic servers.

But in general TBC was WAYYYYYYYY better than Vanilla. Not perfect, but the base game of TBC was better. So even if they did nothing to TBC, it would be better than Classic on day one.

[stivah]

Every xpac has a definite flaws in pvp. TBC has its own gaps in pvp either.

Rogues in TBC were pretty tough. Particularly with warglaives and PvE items were legit unbeatable.
Warlocks mostly used siphon life/soul link build. Were really strong on bgs and arenas.
Warriors still cannot possibly beat mages. As they couldn't in classic. (ofc l mean that players have approx same skill on their class)
All healers incredibly hard to beat. Especially Rdru. iirc if you're a rdru you can just run around pillars on arena and spam lifebloom and you won't be killed unless you oom.
Not to mention pvp+pve items combination that would give you a decent boost in pvp as well.
In arena you can crack high rating if you play one of the top comps.
Yes, in tbc you won't get poly for 30 sec but l am not sure pvp was "way better" tho.

[Demithio]

TBC was a massive improvement over vanilla. However it did lose some magic that vanilla had, mainly in the dungeon and world department. TBC had great dungeons, but they weren't quite the massive labyrinths of vanilla. There were really no dungeons in TBC that matched places like strathholme, dire maul, BRS etc. A few odds and ends were lost in the form of minor items as I recall. The theme also changed quite drastically, but it was very well received and it had a way of tying back in the old world (ala karazhan etc). Everything else though was a huge improvement, raids were the best Blizzard has ever done. It was still very much in the vanilla vein, but with very large improvements in gameplay and class ability. It was a magical expansion, and some of the best memories come out of TBC.

I will resub when and if TBC ever goes live.

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Yes, it will be better. But not for casual guilds.

There are guilds now that still are struggling on naxx. Now imagine throwing in multiple new raids right off the bat on top of dungeons when tbc comes out and they will never be caught up

TBC raiding wasn't for lightweights. However, my (mid pack to upper) guild did fine in TBC. No we couldn't do every single bit of raid content, but most of it, and what we did get we had a blast getting (a mix of T5 / T6).

[Kathandira]

TBC was a massive improvement over vanilla. However it did lose some magic that vanilla had, mainly in the dungeon and world department. TBC had great dungeons, but they weren't quite the massive labyrinths of vanilla. There were really no dungeons in TBC that matched places like strathholme, dire maul, BRS etc. A few odds and ends were lost in the form of minor items as I recall. The theme also changed quite drastically, but it was very well received and it had a way of tying back in the old world (ala karazhan etc). Everything else though was a huge improvement, raids were the best Blizzard has ever done. It was still very much in the vanilla vein, but with very large improvements in gameplay and class ability. It was a magical expansion, and some of the best memories come out of TBC.

I will resub when and if TBC ever goes live.

Additionally in regards to dungeons. The cool thing about Vanilla dungeons is that they had a place in the world, and sometimes needed to be discovered. In TBC, they are grouped together in dungeon hubs. I wish they were a bit more spread out.

That is basically the only "complaint" I have, if you can even call it that lol.

[roboscorcher]

TBC regular server will be 'OK'. Similar to every other expansion launch where you go up another 10 levels.

If there are TBC FRESH servers, those could be a lot of fun. Servers where everyone starts from level 1, no transfers allowed. That would be fun.


Side note: I quit classic for Shadowlands, but I do look forward to having the server community back. Playing with randoms 24/7 is like doing 1night stands instead of being in a relationship. It's fun and varied and easier to get stuff done, but there's no lasting connections.

[Diabloish]

TBC regular server will be 'OK'. Similar to every other expansion launch where you go up another 10 levels.

If there are TBC FRESH servers, those could be a lot of fun. Servers where everyone starts from level 1, no transfers allowed. That would be fun.


Side note: I quit classic for Shadowlands, but I do look forward to having the server community back. Playing with randoms 24/7 is like doing 1night stands instead of being in a relationship. It's fun and varied and easier to get stuff done, but there's no lasting connections.

I know a lot of people hate this option, but honestly if they were going to open up fresh servers I would 100% be behind and would play a server with level 58 templates. The only reason I think this would be good is because what turns a lot of people off to classic in general is the 1-58 grind.

I honestly don’t see any downside to this tbh and I think it would not only bring in a lot more people but let them stay because they actually can play the expansion they wish to play without all that filler content they passed on in classic anyway.

[Fkiolaris]

Additionally in regards to dungeons. The cool thing about Vanilla dungeons is that they had a place in the world, and sometimes needed to be discovered. In TBC, they are grouped together in dungeon hubs. I wish they were a bit more spread out.

That is basically the only "complaint" I have, if you can even call it that lol.

I am not entirely sure it's a TBC thing tbh. I mean think of Vanilla and the Dire Maul dungeons, all the instances in Blackrock Mountains, the Scarlet Monastery dungeons etc. Sure, there were also solo ones scattered around, but instance clusters were in the game from the beginning.

[EtRnitY]

No world buff meta.
Every classes played in raid.
Good and chalenging pvp system and rewards for pvpers. (Classic pvp system was lame/boring and not worth).
With pve and pvp insignas and reputations there is always something to do rather than sitting in capitals waiting for WB.

Only bad thing about TBC is that world pvp is really bad. Flying mount ganks on leveling people are even more lame than flightmasters camping in classic.
With heroic dungeons, raid attunements, arenas, BGs, there is no reason for doing world pvp in TBC, it's not chalenging\rewarding and a waste of time.

[Thundering]

In some ways TBC is better and in some ways it is worse.

+
Class designs are better, but still could be have been better.

Heroic dungeons put in 1 more layer of fun.

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Factions balance is even worse than in classic Horde is just way better due to racial and better paladins. The pve=Alliance favor and pvp=Horde favor is gone and it becomes Horde for both.
Since faction balance is very important this is what generally kills the game for many people.

Dungeons are smaller and boring they dont require as much knowledge to do well.

40 man raids are gone (just bad for the people who want to do them, classic had both 10, 25 and 40man raids)

The world is alot smaller

Class balance is worse due to warlock, shamans and hunters are just too good.

[Kathandira]

I am not entirely sure it's a TBC thing tbh. I mean think of Vanilla and the Dire Maul dungeons, all the instances in Blackrock Mountains, the Scarlet Monastery dungeons etc. Sure, there were also solo ones scattered around, but instance clusters were in the game from the beginning.

That is a good point. Vanilla had a mix of hubs, and isolated dungeons.

[Bigcountry11782]

oh without a doubt it will be. TBC was an upgrade to basically everything from vanilla.

[Kathandira]

oh without a doubt it will be. TBC was an upgrade to basically everything from vanilla.

It's funny actually, when classic was first announced, we saw the battle between No Changes, and Classic+ frame of minds. TBC can be seen as Classic+ in a way. It added a lot of QOL changes, especially in terms of class balance.

[Hofsa]

kael was unkilable,so attunements couldnt be completed,but this likely wont be the case in classic,and black temple is gated only by the attunement,so people will do it and completly skip to t6

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Kael and Vashj only dropped 1 attument quest item per kill at that time tho, so it would have taken 25 weeks for all to get attuned if they were killable, think this lasted maybe 1 or 2 weeks after they were fixed aswell.

[anon5123]

TBC is a direct improvement of vanilla in almost every aspect, yes.

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It's funny actually, when classic was first announced, we saw the battle between No Changes, and Classic+ frame of minds. TBC can be seen as Classic+ in a way. It added a lot of QOL changes, especially in terms of class balance.

Which is what I've been saying for a while, yes. Why would we ever need a "classic+" when that is essentially what TBC is?

[Altariaz]

Just an honest question.

I feel like classic was good for what it was, I played and leveled 2 toons to 60.
I subsequently quit after the "pvp leaders" on my realm wouldn't let me push brackets and subsequently kept getting my account temp banned(By the time the GM overturned the ban it killed my push for that week) So I quit.
Anyway that is another story.

Back on topic, I feel like TBC was cleaner and more fun than Classic.

I think there was enough to do to keep people busy, and I feel like the gear made sense. Meaning that they have stats that you can push for that make sense. (Uncrushable, hit cap, so on and so forth)

Do you think that TBC will be better than classic and will have a playerbase that sticks around a little bit more?

To be fair, you can't beat Classic (which is the closest thing we have to the greatest videogame ever, Vanilla WoW). TBC will be great though. It was a top expansion. No matter how TBC is rolled out, the option to play Classic at any time must be retained.

[Demithio]

Additionally in regards to dungeons. The cool thing about Vanilla dungeons is that they had a place in the world, and sometimes needed to be discovered. In TBC, they are grouped together in dungeon hubs. I wish they were a bit more spread out.

That is basically the only "complaint" I have, if you can even call it that lol.

Yes, I have to agree. TBC started the "compartmentalized" dungeon locations (for the lack of a better word), whereas vanilla dungeons were more "organic". However, the two highly varied, vast, continents of vanilla helped with this a great deal. Dungeons for vanilla, raids for TBC.

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To be fair, you can't beat Classic (which is the closest thing we have to the greatest videogame ever, Vanilla WoW). TBC will be great though. It was a top expansion. No matter how TBC is rolled out, the option to play Classic at any time must be retained.

Vanilla was alive and well during TBC, due to new races and alts. I don't seeing it being different this time around. I recall leveling alt(s) during TBC, and the (nearly) full vanilla experience was there. The only things missing were the special quests like the .5 armor quest chain (still there but pointless) and vanilla events. Vanilla raids of course, were also pointless. All the dungeon crawling and questing were still present. As far as having separate classic and tbc servers, that may be questionable.