New major problem with current direction of development

[WowIsDead64]

What the fuck is this graph. Yes a m+10 is harder for PUG, than a +15 is to PUG. I agree 100%.
The issue is that the content is not harder you just choose to play with people that are not interested in learning.
You are playing with people that scream at the DPS to do more dmg because the wiped on PF 2nd boss, after dying to the explosion. But don't realize that the purple add reduces dmg taken of mobs by 75% in close proximity.

Content is not hard, just because people cba watching a 5 minute video about a dungeon.

I don't try to tell, that M+15 is easier, than M+10. I just try to say, that if you do M+15 in gear, that is proper for M+15, then overall on average whole game is easier for you. Including M+10. And that peak, you need to climb on in order to start making whole game easier for you - is M+. Everything below it just way too hard for rewards, it gives. Crappy rewards should be = crappy content.

[Raisei]

I don't try to tell, that M+15 is easier, than M+10. I just try to say, that if you do M+15 in gear, that is proper for M+15, then overall on average whole game is easier for you. Including M+10. And that peak, you need to climb on in order to start making whole game easier for you - is M+. Everything below it just way too hard for rewards, it gives. Crappy rewards should be = crappy content.

What you completely missunderstand is that not everyone wants the game to be easier. People do not push through M+ levels and gear up to make it easier, they do it to make the next higher key possible. And when they beat that key level they keep on pushing until they reach the point where neither their gear nor their skill can keep up with the Dungeons damage/mob health anymore.

People do this because it is fun to challenge yourself and see how high you can go. Gear is a necessity, but it is not the point of the activity, overcoming a challenge is.

[ellieg]

What you completely missunderstand is that not everyone wants the game to be easier. People do not push through M+ levels and gear up to make it easier, they do it to make the next higher key possible. And when they beat that key level they keep on pushing until they reach the point where neither their gear nor their skill can keep up with the Dungeons damage/mob health anymore.

People do this because it is fun to challenge yourself and see how high you can go. Gear is a necessity, but it is not the point of the activity, overcoming a challenge is.

Naw man. Everyone is like him. They do m+15 to get super geared to make farming WQ for anima as easy as possible. The entire game for him is abt gathering cosmetics lol.

[Nite92]

I don't try to tell, that M+15 is easier, than M+10. I just try to say, that if you do M+15 in gear, that is proper for M+15, then overall on average whole game is easier for you. Including M+10. And that peak, you need to climb on in order to start making whole game easier for you - is M+. Everything below it just way too hard for rewards, it gives. Crappy rewards should be = crappy content.

Holy shit, what is this crap?
NO.
Just no.

Yes after doing +15s for one month, getting +15s done is getting easier. But you could just do the same.
Progress from +5s to 15s, do +15s for a month and it is exactly as easy for you. People that are now getting gear, had to work their way up there to achieve this gear.
BTW, m+ is not the be all and end all, and you do not need it.
(Also it was really unfair that people got AQ gear, making MC so easy).

[WowIsDead64]

Overall you can't convince me, that game is ok now. Or you expect me to believe you, resub and do that anima farm? I've been playing game by myself for 2 months and tested whole content, I wanted to test. And I know for sure, that amount of anima isn't enough now, because I farmed catch-up gear on 4 characters and I definitely know, what anima income do we have now. And I know, that leveling is slow and boring without flying. I know, that renown is way too unstable, so I constantly get stuck with nothing more to do on my current character, while back in patch 6.2 I had at least 1 hour of guaranteed content every day without any gaps. And of course that some WQs are just broken and nobody is going to fix them, because who cares about outdoor content? Only M+ and raids really matter in this game.

And I also know, that 9.1 isn't going to bring any new content to me beyond flying in obsoleted content. And I wouldn't even care, but waiting for so long not to get any content at the end? It's better for flying to be enabled right now in patch 9.0.5 then. At least I would be able to play right now. Because when 9.1 will be released - it will be just too late to start playing. And if Blizzard really think, that TBC would bring me back, then they make mistake. TBC is as boring, as Vanilla was. Only WotLK Classic and WOD Classic would bring me back.

[Le Conceptuel]

Overall you can't convince me, that game is ok now. Or you expect me to believe you, resub and do that anima farm? I've been playing game by myself for 2 months and tested whole content, I wanted to test. And I know for sure, that amount of anima isn't enough now, because I farmed catch-up gear on 4 characters and I definitely know, what anima income do we have now. And I know, that leveling is slow and boring without flying. I know, that renown is way too unstable, so I constantly get stuck with nothing more to do on my current character, while back in patch 6.2 I had at least 1 hour of guaranteed content every day without any gaps. And of course that some WQs are just broken and nobody is going to fix them, because who cares about outdoor content? Only M+ and raids really matter in this game.

And I also know, that 9.1 isn't going to bring any new content to me beyond flying in obsoleted content. And I wouldn't even care, but waiting for so long not to get any content at the end? It's better for flying to be enabled right now in patch 9.0.5 then. At least I would be able to play right now. Because when 9.1 will be released - it will be just too late to start playing. And if Blizzard really think, that TBC would bring me back, then they make mistake. TBC is as boring, as Vanilla was. Only WotLK Classic and WOD Classic would bring me back.

I don't think Blizzard cares about bringing you, an irrelevant monetary datum, back to WoW. I think you're incorrect to assume anyone really cares enough to try to convince you.

[WowIsDead64]

I don't think Blizzard cares about bringing you, an irrelevant monetary datum, back to WoW. I think you're incorrect to assume anyone really cares enough to try to convince you.

This is wrong approach, because as back in old times only 10% of playerbase were doing normal raiding, I don't think, that M+ are done by, let's say, 90% of playerbase. It can be possible only if Wow has 1M players now.

Overall problems are the same, as in BFA:
1) Can't do anima grind in parallel, because it would take too much effort and I just don't think, that stupid cosmetics worth it.
2) Can't do it serially because it would take several months per character in this case and therefore I wouldn't be able to complete my goals even by the end of xpack.

1 and 2 are the same problems, as with rep grinds. Anima grind is long term grind and it's not account-wide.

3) If anima grind isn't possible - then only way to keep myself busy is leveling alts, but without flying leveling doesn't have enough quality to make this process fun enough. You should understand, that leveling is "unlimited" content and when it's slow, it takes too much time, but you want to complete it as fast as possible, so you start to do it too intensively and burn yourself out.
4) And only content, that gets some love from developers in patch 9.0.5 - are M+ and raids. M+ guys get their upgrades, they get their valor points. They get reason to play. And casual players get NOTHING, while there wouldn't be any reason to play this game any longer, when they will run out of Renown levels to grind.

So, again. SL was advertized as more alt-friendly xpack. But this alt-friendliness ends after completing covenant campaign, that takes may be two weeks and has may be 2 hours of actual game time. After that it's BFA 2.0, where you can play on one character only and all good content is beyond M+ only.

[Tiradon]

This is wrong approach, because as back in old times only 10% of playerbase were doing normal raiding, I don't think, that M+ are done by, let's say, 90% of playerbase. It can be possible only if Wow has 1M players now.

Overall problems are the same, as in BFA:
1) Can't do anima grind in parallel, because it would take too much effort and I just don't think, that stupid cosmetics worth it.
2) Can't do it serially because it would take several months per character in this case and therefore I wouldn't be able to complete my goals even by the end of xpack.

1 and 2 are the same problems, as with rep grinds. Anima grind is long term grind and it's not account-wide.

3) If anima grind isn't possible - then only way to keep myself busy is leveling alts, but without flying leveling doesn't have enough quality to make this process fun enough. You should understand, that leveling is "unlimited" content and when it's slow, it takes too much time, but you want to complete it as fast as possible, so you start to do it too intensively and burn yourself out.
4) And only content, that gets some love from developers in patch 9.0.5 - are M+ and raids. M+ guys get their upgrades, they get their valor points. They get reason to play. And casual players get NOTHING, while there wouldn't be any reason to play this game any longer, when they will run out of Renown levels to grind.

So, again. SL was advertized as more alt-friendly xpack. But this alt-friendliness ends after completing covenant campaign, that takes may be two weeks and has may be 2 hours of actual game time. After that it's BFA 2.0, where you can play on one character only and all good content is beyond M+ only.

I think every week people are less and less focused on making M+. Not just those who did KSM but also people who just pug are getting more and more frustrated with the experience itself and people leaving half way.

Personally I did KSM and just focus on doing 10/10 per week on my main and 1 or 4 on my alts

[WowIsDead64]

Updated my sig to better reflect current problems. As old BFA problems still aren't actually solved, I decided that they should stay.

[munkeyinorbit]

With a username like yours, and dozens of started threads describing how you dont like wow, id say its time for you to move onto a new game. But secretly I think you enjoy making threads like this more than you'd enjoy actually playing any games.

He doesn't actually play wow. He accidently outed himself when he showed he had no knowledge if the current game. That was a good 2 weeks where he was too embarrassed to start any new threads. I pretty much just report his posts as trolling and leave it to the authorities to deal with

[Thunderball]

I dont see any new problems. They've been stuck chasing all the different playerbases since Cata. They definitely should just cut players who dont want to play the content they want to make instead of coming up with "alternative progression" stuff.

@OP most players should have the content that is too hard for them otherwise 1) there's nothing to strive for; 2) hardcore audience is a dying breed already, they need more stuff to do, not less.

[WowIsDead64]

He doesn't actually play wow. He accidently outed himself when he showed he had no knowledge if the current game. That was a good 2 weeks where he was too embarrassed to start any new threads. I pretty much just report his posts as trolling and leave it to the authorities to deal with

Don't claim things, if you don't have proofs. I play this game for more than 10 years and there is nothing revolutionary new in this game. If I don't know something about this game, then I just isn't interested in it. Remember, that abusing report system to slander other players can cause banning yourself instead.


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I dont see any new problems. They've been stuck chasing all the different playerbases since Cata. They definitely should just cut players who dont want to play the content they want to make instead of coming up with "alternative progression" stuff.

@OP most players should have the content that is too hard for them otherwise 1) there's nothing to strive for; 2) hardcore audience is a dying breed already, they need more stuff to do, not less.

I don't have anything against having too hard content. For example I'm 100% ok about M+ and raids. I don't ask to remove them. I just don't go there, so there is no problem. Problems start, when Blizzard start to turn easy content into hard, when it's intended to be easy.

[Thunderball]

I don't have anything against having too hard content. For example I'm 100% ok about M+ and raids. I don't ask to remove them. I just don't go there, so there is no problem. Problems start, when Blizzard start to turn easy content into hard, when it's intended to be easy.

What content are you talking about?

[WowIsDead64]

What content are you talking about?

Outdoor content. For example we had flying back in old times (TBC, WotLK, Cata, MOP) and Blizzard were 100% ok about it. But now they implement "no-flying forever content", like Maw. Why? Because they don't want us to make our lives easier via flying over all that walls of elites, instead of killing them.

[munkeyinorbit]

I think the renown and potency should be account bound. Makes no sense getting an alt to max speed and then you have to farm Renown like crazy if you wanna join a raid this week or next week

Reknown has no bearing on whether you raid or not. No one cares what reknown you are because it has no real bearing in your performance. Read that last sentence very slowly and make sure I actually did say what you want to fight me about. There is a small boost if you are max reknown but hardly worth worrying about.

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Outdoor content. For example we had flying back in old times (TBC, WotLK, Cata, MOP) and Blizzard were 100% ok about it. But now they implement "no-flying forever content", like Maw. Why? Because they don't want us to make our lives easier via flying over all that walls of elites, instead of killing them.

Nice photoshop and excuse. Here's another example where you have shown that you don't actually play the game. You claim to be an expert on all things that you like and you keep making claims that you are into the outdoor areas and blizzard is wronging you by not bringing flying in early enough and for not including flying in the maw. Here is where I call your BS.

Timeless Isle from MoP has never had flying. There goes your whole argument.

[Argorwal]

Outdoor content. For example we had flying back in old times (TBC, WotLK, Cata, MOP) and Blizzard were 100% ok about it. But now they implement "no-flying forever content", like Maw. Why? Because they don't want us to make our lives easier via flying over all that walls of elites, instead of killing them.

They had "no flying forever" content in every single expansion you mentioned except Wrath because Wrath didn't even bother adding any new zones in patches.

TBC - Isle of Queldanis (butchered spelling)

Wrath - Problem solved by just not adding zones in patches!

Cata - Molten Front

MoP - Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle

WoD - Ironically is full flying after pathfinder

Legion - Argus

BoD - Full flying after pathfinder

SL - Maw (for now)

[Thunderball]

Outdoor content. For example we had flying back in old times (TBC, WotLK, Cata, MOP) and Blizzard were 100% ok about it. But now they implement "no-flying forever content", like Maw. Why? Because they don't want us to make our lives easier via flying over all that walls of elites, instead of killing them.

So they're not allowed to design zones without flying now because you're too bad to get around elites now?

[WowIsDead64]

They had "no flying forever" content in every single expansion you mentioned except Wrath because Wrath didn't even bother adding any new zones in patches.

TBC - Isle of Queldanis (butchered spelling)

Wrath - Problem solved by just not adding zones in patches!

Cata - Molten Front

MoP - Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle

WoD - Ironically is full flying after pathfinder

Legion - Argus

BoD - Full flying after pathfinder

SL - Maw (for now)

But situation was reverse and, I think, more correct back then. It's no flying, that was optional back then. Don't want flying? Go to specific location like Tol'Barad. But now we don't have such choice. I just talk about that "flying makes game much easier or even trivial" mentality. I've tested it many times already, because I've got all Pathfinders, so I could compare game with and without flying. Overall gameplay doesn't change at all, because all objectives are done on a ground anyway. It's just extra unnecessary obstacles, that are removed. Like that extra mobs (sometimes elite, that aren't supposed to be effectively killed, when you're solo) on your way from point A to point B. Or you can take direct route from point A to point B instead of going around, that takes X extra minutes and nothing more. It just fixes several problems with this game. Like slow and boring leveling we have now. Or like some overtuned content, like crowd of elite mobs on your way in Maw while doing covenant campaign quest. That's it. Flying fixes problems, Blizzard create. I Blizzard wouldn't create them - flying wouldn't be needed.