28 bosses down and got 2 items which are useless...

[chiddie]

Probably Blizzard has enough data to clue that if people gear up too quickly they will stop playing and paying, else I don’t really understand why it HAS to be so difficult to gear up in a reasonable time.

I would not stop playing if I was to gear up faster, I would simply do more difficult content, as usual. Game should be first of all FUN to play regardless the gear.

[Addiena]

Probably Blizzard has enough data to clue that if people gear up too quickly they will stop playing and paying, else I don’t really understand why it HAS to be so difficult to gear up in a reasonable time.

I would not stop playing if I was to gear up faster, I would simply do more difficult content, as usual. Game should be first of all FUN to play regardless the gear.

I suspect their data is currently showing that people who dont gear up fast enough quit their fucking game.

[Biomega]

I hate the current loot system so I did the only thing that made any kind of sense, I unsubbed and flipped Blizzard the bird, Plenty of other games that dont punish me for playing them with miserly loot systems.

That is the only sensible way of communicating, really. Money seems to be the only language with any efficacy attached to it. I get their thinking behind the reduction in loot drops, I just personally don't find the new system enjoyable. And if I don't enjoy it, I'm not going to pay every month to play something I'm not having fun with. If enough other people disagree and the equation works for Blizzard's bottom line in the end, fine, I can accept that. It just doesn't work for me.

[chiddie]

I suspect their data is currently showing that people who dont gear up fast enough quit their fucking game.

I’m not so sure, else they wouldn’t have implemented such a horrible loot system.

[Akibaboy]

I legit just made this account to reply to all of you. The loot system is trash. It is ABSOLUTELY Blizzards fault because it's a system blizzard implemented...I've managed to complete maybe ten M+ dungeons. My warrior is 209 iL and literally no one wants to take me, and check this out. The ONLY loot I have received from M+ was out of the Great Vault. Blizzard can eat shit with their pay2win system that they've implemented with WoW Tokens. The only benefit to the WoW Token that I see, is being able to earn the gold while playing to not only pay for the subscription, but the expansion, and any DLCs blizzard creates. Fuck giving Blizzard money.

Here's the best part though...
• Blizzard absolutely has wanted to give you loot and get you geared via raids and dungeons for at least the last 8+ years
• Blizzard also wanted to provide incentives for people to continue to engage content after they'd done it once or in cases where they feel stuck - yes to keep subs going for successful financial reasons, but also because they cannot humanly produce content at the rate the playerbase consumes and requests it... it has to be repeatable by nature. In WoW's infancy this was done by just rarely giving you loot, having people go through meltdowns screaming at each other for it, etc.

So Blizzard came up with an answer: By playing the game, you'll be able to acquire an ensemble of gear that gives you all the power you'll need to tackle the challenges you want to. If you enjoy doing that content and do it regularly, there's a chance you'll get slightly more powerful versions of that gear, but it isn't mandatory by any means based on the way the game is tuned.

Players absolutely hated that system and asked for its removal ad nauseum. So here we are, "loot is loot"... and it will take you the entire tier to get a full ensemble of what you need, because for the sake of the business and player psychology alike, there needs to be a benefit for continued play. The balance of progression has shifted from (80% skill requirements / 20% gearing needs) to I'd say more around (50% skill requirements / 50% gearing needs).

All because this is what the vocal minority and YouTube / Twitch millionaires wanted.

Either way, I don't mind. The Vault is a pretty great concept. The only real area I see about it that makes me sad is how sparse my transmog collection is. In Legion & BfA I was able to collect entire sets within 2-3 weeks.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

That's just called being unlucky.
The biggest concern should be the "which are useless..." part.
Gear which you don't need should be being traded, and vice versa.

Without titanforging, or a system like it though, there will be items NO ONE needs, and then what?
Everyone clamored to get it removed, so we must live with the consequences.

Do content you enjoy and worry less about rewards, or you will never be happy, at least until they fix this.
Which I can't imagine will be happening this season.

[schwank05]

Even if the stats aren’t your BIS stats, if it’s an iLvl upgrade, or has a socket, it’s likely better than what you have. And I doubt you’ve gotten only two items out of 28 kills, and even if you had, you still get to pick from the great vault.

Even if it was worse case scenario on all those things, it’s not Blizzards fault you have bad luck.

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Also there is no scenario where you’d be hindered by this. Anyone who’s pushing the hardest content would be able to make due with what they have.

And if that’s not you then you’re a casual and it’s not like you really need the gear for anything.

I got a 207 Ring from the World Boss, but cannot equip it as the 184 Ring I have has 130 Mastery on it and I am not giving up almost 6% mastery for shit Crit strike and Vers and like 6 stamina. On another note I upgraded my Legendary Cloak from 210 to 235 and got a whopping 4 secondary stat increase in 25ilvls that is pretty damn shitty for a 70,000+ Gold investment.

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That's just called being unlucky.
The biggest concern should be the "which are useless..." part.
Gear which you don't need should be being traded, and vice versa.

Without titanforging, or a system like it though, there will be items NO ONE needs, and then what?
Everyone clamored to get it removed, so we must live with the consequences.

Do content you enjoy and worry less about rewards, or you will never be happy, at least until they fix this.
Which I can't imagine will be happening this season.

The biggest issue is that some gear such as Necks and Rings without primary stats on them are very hard to change out even if higher ilvl because they have the wrong stats on them. But in my case the items become bound as they are higher ilvl that what I have, but are not an upgrade so they become soulbound and you cannot trade. I also will give up a piece to another character that is a minor upgrade for me and a huge upgrade for them but cannot because the game is designed that way.

[GreenJesus]

Been clearing normal and about half of heroic for the past couple of weeks, pretty casually. I've gotten 3 items: a vers/mastery ring that I couldn't trade (highest ilvl), some boots that weren't an upgrade (gave to a guildie) and a belt (which is my lego slot). I'm a tank, and thus I've been forced to rely heavily on farming M+ for upgrades.

Loot drops in raids have been abysmal, to the point where I've had newcomers to the game ask if loot has always been this scarce. Clearly they didn't play last xpac, lol.

I feel your pain, OP. Stick with it and eventually you'll (theoretically) get everything that you want...but who knows how long that may take? You honestly don't sound like you have the patience to hold out that long (that wasn't meant as an insult).

Also, people need to stop feeding into Blizzard's bad design when it comes to obtaining PvE-BiS items through PvP. Yes, I know it's there and it's available, and is BiS. But by buying into that system you're literally enabling Blizzard to continue this terrible design structure. A player should never feel compelled to PvP in order to supplement PvE performance (I haven't actively PvPed in years). If everyone outright refused those trinkets, Blizzard would realize that something needs to change. But few of you will, because it's BiS, and so the cycle continues.

TL;DR: You're certainly not the only one who finds the current system awkward and "strange", OP. But without being in a position of power at Blizzard, what can one do?

lol.. Actively hindering your performance just to "stick it to the man". This is a video game not real life dude. You not choosing to get PVP gear won't effect Blizzard in any way and they have no reason to care.

[Tyris Flare]

PvP gold boosting services have to be making an absolute killing this patch. Drop <a million gold and you can have your entire character in 220 gear. Way better use of cash than a single BoE.

[chiddie]

That's just called being unlucky.
The biggest concern should be the "which are useless..." part.
Gear which you don't need should be being traded, and vice versa.

Without titanforging, or a system like it though, there will be items NO ONE needs, and then what?
Everyone clamored to get it removed, so we must live with the consequences.

Do content you enjoy and worry less about rewards, or you will never be happy, at least until they fix this.
Which I can't imagine will be happening this season.

The consequences should be that every piece you get is useful since you get way less pieces than before.

But it’s not the case. We simply get less pieces, without again having the certainty they will be always useful.

I have the inventory full of items 15-20 levels behind the actual equipped with a big green arrow pointing up, meaning the game is telling me they are upgrades even if they are way lower levels tua the actual ones I have equipped. This should NEVER be the case.

[Nachtigal]

I got a 207 Ring from the World Boss, but cannot equip it as the 184 Ring I have has 130 Mastery on it and I am not giving up almost 6% mastery for shit Crit strike and Vers and like 6 stamina. On another note I upgraded my Legendary Cloak from 210 to 235 and got a whopping 4 secondary stat increase in 25ilvls that is pretty damn shitty for a 70,000+ Gold investment.

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The biggest issue is that some gear such as Necks and Rings without primary stats on them are very hard to change out even if higher ilvl because they have the wrong stats on them. But in my case the items become bound as they are higher ilvl that what I have, but are not an upgrade so they become soulbound and you cannot trade. I also will give up a piece to another character that is a minor upgrade for me and a huge upgrade for them but cannot because the game is designed that way.

Minor issue you’ve experienced here imo. Also primary stat > secondary stat in 98% of cases. The 2% being iLvl differences of +/- 5.

[Argorwal]

The consequences should be that every piece you get is useful since you get way less pieces than before.

But it’s not the case. We simply get less pieces, without again having the certainty they will be always useful.

I have the inventory full of items 15-20 levels behind the actual equipped with a big green arrow pointing up, meaning the game is telling me they are upgrades even if they are way lower levels tua the actual ones I have equipped. This should NEVER be the case.

Can you post exact items and class/spec for some independent simming?

Because I have a feeling you are choosing to not equip upgrades.

[clevin]

That is insanely bad luck, and it sucks. I ran Mythic 0s for the first 2 weeks, and out of 16 dungeon runs, I only had 3 pieces drop. It was fucking awful. Meanwhile, the rest of my group, who was static for both weeks, received anywhere from 12-20 pieces of loot, each. It has become a meme now when we run M+ or raid, about how I never get any loot.

If you run with a static group, you all know you can trade loot if it's not an ilevel upgrade for the looter, right? I mean if you're the only one who uses an armor type, that isn't an option aside from rings, trinkets etc but still....

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Minor issue you’ve experienced here imo. Also primary stat > secondary stat in 98% of cases. The 2% being iLvl differences of +/- 5.

Except rings don't have primary stats on them nor do necks. Which is poor design imo

[chiddie]

Can you post exact items and class/spec for some independent simming?

Because I have a feeling you are choosing to not equip upgrades.

Noes I equip them anyways because in M+ every ounch of stamina and intellect matters (I’m resto shaman), but it’s weird that because of wrong secondary stats a far lower item is still considered better somehow. I remember for example a 184 ring being considered something like 168% better of my actually equipped 200 ring.

This feels weird, given the loot starvation anything >5 ilvl should be a good upgrade without if and but.

[ohwell]

No, I blame the game designers for putting useless trash in the loot tables. I'm fine with having less loot, but when an item finally drops I don't want it to be a piece of shit augment for a spec I'm not fucking playing. Hell even 95% of the ones for the spec I AM playing are 100% irrelevant.

I'd definitely love to see a graph of the actual dps differences between them which btw unless you're a machine with a perfect connection that nobody has the differences would be even less. Regardless, point still stands that there isn't a loot problem unless your entire raid isn't getting loot for 28 bosses. That's what I want to hear from these people crying. How many items dropped from each actual boss, not complaining that THEY didn't get loot(and not even they didn't get loot, but they didn't get the loot they wanted).

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See that's the problem..the system still needs something to make it good..I wouldn't mind this if there was some form of bad luck protection(and the seal isn't BLP) and they gave us a currency to work with to get upgrades...but when you dont get upgrades outside of your seal for weeks on end its a shitty system. It's gating progression stupidly...

Stop that silly lie about valor as valor was typically not an upgrade for raiders(typically is the point as there were cases where it worked, filled a hole temporarily, etc). The great vault is better than valor, you don't get both and don't need a currency.

[agentsi]

If you run with a static group, you all know you can trade loot if it's not an ilevel upgrade for the looter, right? I mean if you're the only one who uses an armor type, that isn't an option aside from rings, trinkets etc but still....

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Except rings don't have primary stats on them nor do necks. Which is poor design imo

Yes... everyone knows that... My point was to agree with the OP about how insane the RNG scales seem to be out of whack. The point was simple, after 16 runs, I only had 3 pieces of gear dropped for me. Which is just insane. Not as bad as the luck the OP is experiencing, but still.

[TrollHunter3000]

As title says, i've killed 28 HC bosses last 3 weeks, and all i got is 2 items... Yes, literally 2 items, out of 28 bosses. And guess what, i did not even equipped them since their stats were trash for my spec...

Oh wait, nowadays we dont get items from raids right ? ohh yea i totaly forgot that, in this expansion Raiders get the best items from M+ and PvP... yes, yes, thats %100 right, PVP... Best trinkets are the ones you get from PvP (Duelists)

So seriously, am i the only one who finds this system weird ?

As a conclusion, Blizzard needs to add at least a reforger to change our items' stats in exchange of ash souls (Just an idea)... maybe put a limit of 1 or 2 items a week...

But please for the love of god DO SOMETHING... !

This is literally impossible with bad luck protection in place. So, you're lying.

[GringoD]

Noes I equip them anyways because in M+ every ounch of stamina and intellect matters (I’m resto shaman), but it’s weird that because of wrong secondary stats a far lower item is still considered better somehow. I remember for example a 184 ring being considered something like 168% better of my actually equipped 200 ring.

This feels weird, given the loot starvation anything >5 ilvl should be a good upgrade without if and but.

That's just rings though... It's the only slot that still needs you to be wary of secondaries, because there's no main stat to overpower them on higher itemlevel.
Item level is king on every other slot, save for maybe trinkets. So it's really not that big of a problem.

[schwank05]

Minor issue you’ve experienced here imo. Also primary stat > secondary stat in 98% of cases. The 2% being iLvl differences of +/- 5.

Mastery is King for UH DK. Every point I give up in mastery in favor of another stat including strength I can see on the Damage over the fight especially long fights where I get more than 12 cast of Army.

[glowpipe]

Its absolutely garbage. between hc and normal. i got 4 items out of 44 bosses. And to make things even worse. the last 2 items was the same as the previous 2 items. i got 2 of the same cloak and 2 of the same chest.