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  1. #181
    Found out that the problem is mostly shitty tanks not playing correctly. In lower keys (2-4) tanks would just get smashed by every trash pack, but in higher keys (5-8) they seem to take way less damage. No seriously, after doing a bunch of +7 and +8s, I did a +4 just to test out a new legendary and talent setup, and it was WAY harder to heal. I was having to spam the fuck out of the tank just to keep him above 50% on most pulls. On a +4. At 195 ilvl.

    And similarly, I just had an awful tank that kept breaking CC every pull, which would lead to him getting like 30+ stacks of necrotic super quickly and dying because of it. And then had the gall to whine at me for "not healing enough". Fucking retard.

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    What if you don't expect you healer to OOM in two pulls by using wrong healing spells? Or never sips? Is that tank mistake or healer? Maybe tanks are teaching OP a lesson on how to use mana properly and do sips ?
    You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.
    so.. how is that bad?

  3. #183
    Herald of the Titans MrPaladinGuy's Avatar
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    Have a macro ready that says you need to drink after this pull (so the tank has warning) and if the tank pulls and dies it's their fault.
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  4. #184
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    10% mana back from sipping is a very generous estimate. I still try to sip when I can because something is better than nothing (something you can feel on Spiteful weeks when you can't sip at all), but frankly it is near useless to drink unless you can drink for a longish duration.

    Drinking long enough is totally possible most weeks as long as you plan in advance with your positioning and know the fights (what pulls you can safely drink on and which you can't risk), and/or your tank knows to use cooldowns or maybe pull a smaller pack first or whatever adjustments need to be made so they will survive while you do. It just takes some familiarity and some cooperation with the tank.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2021-01-31 at 08:21 PM.
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    I mean look at it this way: if they let you drink 10 times for 20 seconds in the instance, that doesn't sound much, but in reality that's 3min 20sec wasted time on a run where the last boss usually dies 1 or 2 min before the timer.
    No one's talking about 10 times of 20 seconds, it's more like 5-6 times of about 10 seconds or even less than that. And you can't really call it "wasted time" because it prevents wipes and allows for bolder pulls. In a pug setting, which this thread is about, it's the optimal way.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    No one's talking about 10 times of 20 seconds, it's more like 5-6 times of about 10 seconds or even less than that. And you can't really call it "wasted time" because it prevents wipes and allows for bolder pulls. In a pug setting, which this thread is about, it's the optimal way.
    Also in most cases, the tank can start pulling the next pack or even a boss while you're still drinking. That's how I usually go about it.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    What if you don't expect you healer to OOM in two pulls by using wrong healing spells? Or never sips? Is that tank mistake or healer? Maybe tanks are teaching OP a lesson on how to use mana properly and do sips ?
    It’s impossible to go oom regardless the spells you use in two pulls unless the other 4 are taking tons of avoidable damage (that happens more often than you may imagine).

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It’s impossible to go oom regardless the spells you use in two pulls unless the other 4 are taking tons of avoidable damage (that happens more often than you may imagine).
    it is possible. Trust me

  9. #189
    Mechagnome Rageadon's Avatar
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    Let them die

  10. #190
    I main a MW monk who have the worst mana tools in game and need to drink way more then any other heal and the key is to learn the dungeons and use your mobility to get ahead of the groups and start drinking, so if pack you are clearing is about to die group is topped off start setting off in the direction of the next pack when you drop combat spamming that drink keybind even if you can only recover 20% mana it enough most times to rinse and repeat.

    You don't want to slow your group down as healer so learning mana management is key part of playing a healer in m+ (it is why people prefer shaman as they just laugh at mana issues and do stupid healing number at the same time)Pride is also a god send for this and most your mana issues will go away when doing +10 and above.

  11. #191
    The only piece of advice I can give you here is that you should treat your character as a melee character towards the end of any engagement. Your mana bar % doesn't really matter, your distance to the group definitely does. As a priest I sometimes run into the next pack already with Fade up, so I have more time to drink.

    Many healer AoE spells only have 30y range around the target anyway, so I like to stand at around 15-20y range, so I can hit the entire group.

    If you are struggling with mana in general, there might be a legendary you can use to alleviate those issues like I found Flash Concentration for Holy Priest. In general you have one spammable high hps single-target heal on every healer and that tends to cost a ton of mana. You can work around this by using your cooldowns earlier into the pull. This helps, because going oom happens mostly when the entire group is low and you have to single target triage with your "fast spell". Track personal defense CDs on your unit frames, so you can see when you can afford to heal someone else or use a higher value slow spell like a HoT.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Found out that the problem is mostly shitty tanks not playing correctly. In lower keys (2-4) tanks would just get smashed by every trash pack, but in higher keys (5-8) they seem to take way less damage. No seriously, after doing a bunch of +7 and +8s, I did a +4 just to test out a new legendary and talent setup, and it was WAY harder to heal. I was having to spam the fuck out of the tank just to keep him above 50% on most pulls. On a +4. At 195 ilvl.

    And similarly, I just had an awful tank that kept breaking CC every pull, which would lead to him getting like 30+ stacks of necrotic super quickly and dying because of it. And then had the gall to whine at me for "not healing enough". Fucking retard.



    You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.
    In low keys like this, its usually complete inexperience on the part of the group, failing at mechanics, and not understanding the power of stuns etc. Even if CC is not "required", a leg sweep or similar knockdown/stun on a large pack can make the world of difference. Also, if they dont understand the affixes, they could be making the dungeon substantially harder than it needs to be - not controlling stacks, standing in bad, etc etc.

    This sorta comes with the territory when pugging low lvl keys, as it is kind of where players learn.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Found out that the problem is mostly shitty tanks not playing correctly. In lower keys (2-4) tanks would just get smashed by every trash pack, but in higher keys (5-8) they seem to take way less damage. No seriously, after doing a bunch of +7 and +8s, I did a +4 just to test out a new legendary and talent setup, and it was WAY harder to heal. I was having to spam the fuck out of the tank just to keep him above 50% on most pulls. On a +4. At 195 ilvl.

    And similarly, I just had an awful tank that kept breaking CC every pull, which would lead to him getting like 30+ stacks of necrotic super quickly and dying because of it. And then had the gall to whine at me for "not healing enough". Fucking retard.



    You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.
    Usually the higher the key you do the better players you find.

    2-6 is a sort of playground were ppl start to learn mechanics.

    7-9, where you have all the affixes (the fourth impacts mostly the tanks that have to relearn paths) is where you start seeing people that more or less know what to do, how and when.

    In the 10+ bracket in theory you’ll see even less ppl that have no clue of what they are doing. Things will go wrong anyways but in a lesser extent.

    Of course also ppl gearing up slowly but steadily helps, 1 month ago pushing with pugs was more difficult due to low ilvl also. The bad side of this is ppl starting to ask insane ilvls for low keys too in order to try bruteforcing them to try hiding the lack of mechanics knowledge.
    Last edited by chiddie; 2021-02-03 at 08:41 PM.

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