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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ermelloth View Post
    As usual, gutted Ret w/o addressing the real problem which is Kyrian conduit Ringing Clarity paired with Divine Toll
    But sure, let's completely screw non-Kyrian Rets in PVP
    W/o potent offheal it is a defenseless spec all over again
    defenseless spec all over again? if you compare melee hybrids ret and feral, the ret has an absorb shield, a barkskin/thorns eye for an eye, 1 immunity bubble, 1 physical dmg immunity bubble, plate armor granting above 40% damage reduction, it actually has a finisher ability it can talent for that heals, instant cast word of glory or flash of lights.

    feral has. barkskin. survival instincts. movement speed.

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    WUT BUD- edit lollayonhands

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Mightytasty's Avatar
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    I already quit PvP for this patch but these are good changes. Too little too late for me though.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Whenever I see that dudes profile pic in a thread I immediately know its going to be some seemingly high-effort sarcastic blizzard shill nonsense. You could run bets on this dude showing up in every thread to play devils advocate for a multi BILLION dollar company that repeatedly fails to deliver when their game is in disarray. Must be what gives him purpose, so from now on just ignore the guy. His very biased takes are likely not to be taken seriously either way.

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    They literally nerfed hpal in the best possible way, and I'm maining that shit currently. Divine Favor having counterplay now is the best thing they could have done, and the cast time increase rewards using it with infusion of light and ups the value of haste in pvp, which was 0 up to this point.
    Funny thing is I very rarely ever see him/her defend Blizzard so much as call out arm chair warriors for a lack of understanding how things work and how their personal opinions are not the end all be all of an argument that they act like they are.
    I don’t agree with Otaxephon’s attitude in his/her posts, but they usually aren’t wrong when calling out people’s BS reasons for disliking something. Better yet, when they try to call out Blizzard for something while the solution they present is way worse than what is happening.
    Please though, carry on with your 2 way bashing of someone while spewing nonsense about why you are bashing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pratty View Post
    and instead of this full moon what is convoke going to be casting ? an extra rejuv? regrowth? swipe from range? i agree that yeah it can be annoying that once in every 12 convokes the druid is going to oneshot someone with full moon, but this is already roll the bones if it had aids cause if anyone else so much as roots a target your convoke doesnt attack it, multiple targets you probably going to spend your convoke on 2-3 starsurges, 4-5 moonfires and then random healing or feral spells depending if you are in range or melee so is this spell going to be just utter shit now or what because if that does not transfer into another starsurge cast this is the equivilent of losing 2-4 starsurges, depending on crit.

    meanwhile every other class in the game can insta gimp you if they have half a brain, just fucking stun the druid once he pops celestial alignment, legendary effect negated... interrupt or stun soon as he pops convoke.
    Hey guys and gals, we have the answer right here. Hold all interrupts and stuns and let the Druid free cast everything on you just so you can hold off for the other dangerous ability. Let alone not do anything about the Druids arena teammates that are free casting and running around, gotta make sure you hold everything for that Convoke ability.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    if you only got that rating due to skills being so strong they got nerfed, and you can't keep the rating after, you never should have had that rating to begin with
    well no duh,thats the point when something is op....it makes you stronger than others and therefore you end up having a higher rating than you would have otherwise,even the most elite of players will fall in to this situation

  5. #45
    These are good changes. Also, I've seen too many druids already crying about the nerf. Look, yes, in arenas you can LoS it, kick, you name it.. but a druid with a decent partner will always set it up in a way that it goes off fully, then it's GG, and even if half of went off -- it could still one shot someone. This is just stupid, and it's good it got nerfed, no ability should have this kind of impact. Fight me for this, but you know it's true.

  6. #46
    Maybe blizzard never wanted to balance PvP and this players arguments are actually continuous pvp outside wow which is in fact still about wow but not exactly inside wow.

    Another variant might be that they are completely incompetent in balancing a game mechanics , and used all their money to buy marketing devs only, to make even more money for nothing, they are selling a legendary looking book with a good looking cover and blank pages. And that might even be correct if the consumers don't even know to "metaphorically" read at all.

    Those players who like wow pvp as it is never understood how wow even works , and took it as granted, never though is bugged or unbalanced in any way, they just thought that that class is like that because that is the way it was designed, or had the sheer luck to play most overpowered classes at every expansion.

    And for those who say adding more classes/specs/abilities etc , is a balancing nightmare, (there are games created by one single man in this world, yes they are simpler games but still work very well), for a company like blizzard, balancing, if they wanted to, is a piece of cake.

  7. #47
    Keyboard Turner
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    really need for change some thing, keep it up, good work. Thanks

  8. #48
    It looks like they're trying to address the correct issues but these changes come pretty late and the % of these changes are kinda low. I don't get this inconsequential attitude towards balancing the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I can't wait to see how MMO-C's arm chair game developers look at these changes and assume that since they didn't completely overhaul the entire fucking game in a hotfix that there is nobody at Blizzard who knows how to read.
    Is writing apologetics for Blizzard like your hobby or something? I really want to understand the reasoning behind someone opening a thread only to immediately start complaining about people who are unhappy with these changes before they have even posted something.
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yes, because anybody who doesn't call Blizzard incompetent from the safety of their warm keyboards is immediately, by definition, an apologist.
    How about pre-emptively muddying the waters by ridiculing and strawmanning people who disagree with Blizzard's decisions or think they don't go far enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Look at this forum. Read any topic. Look at how divisive everybody is about literally fucking everything.
    Amazing.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by formless86 View Post
    defenseless spec all over again? if you compare melee hybrids ret and feral, the ret has an absorb shield, a barkskin/thorns eye for an eye, 1 immunity bubble, 1 physical dmg immunity bubble, plate armor granting above 40% damage reduction, it actually has a finisher ability it can talent for that heals, instant cast word of glory or flash of lights.

    feral has. barkskin. survival instincts. movement speed.

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    WUT BUD- edit lollayonhands
    Nice comparison bro. It doesn't help your case to mention half of ferals defenses and mentioning unused bad talents for rets.

  10. #50
    Oh. Time to delete my mage then.

  11. #51
    Holy Paladin's signature PVP talent gutted. Disc? Unchecked.

    Cool.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lixo View Post
    Oh. Time to delete my mage then.
    Mage will still be OP because combust remains unchanged. What should all the other poor sods do that are nowhere near the power of fire mages, kill themselves? Stop being hyperbolic lol

  13. #53
    and there went balance for pvp :P i mean i cant count to how many times meles have literaly instakilled me within 1-2 seocnds unstoppable, rouges poping a cc on u then another one and another one and another one whilst doing 20.000 hit evicarates, or paladins healing themselves from 1-35000 ina global, several times, ww monks literaly being impossible to escape due to 100% slow and several other ccs, i have never died to a convoke being cast at me becaus gues what, there are 100 ways to stop it from being cast the milisecond someone casts it, im balance and i know how to stop convoke in one fraction of a second, and then that 2 minute of chance luck someone does not interrupt it it actualy kills someone. but a rouge saping u then doing 40.000 dms in 2 seconds thats fine, a warrior leaping in and oneshoting u, monk oneshoting u, firemage popping conbustin, wich has what 1/3 of the cooldown convoke has, and just blinking left right center upp down whilst casting a 35% of ur entire health pool dma with literaly no cd, yeah, kick on the balance druid blizzard, like you always do, god forbid balance should be usable in pvp nonnonon cant have that... blizzard has never will never and cant ever balance pvp. and they literaly despice balance druids to be able to play pvp. ohh btw any 2s team has atleast 4-9 ways to stop convoke, just saying. can u say the same for any other class? no u cant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    I already quit PvP for this patch but these are good changes. Too little too late for me though.
    well they removed the one thing balance druids had going for them in pvp, every single team of 2 or 3s has atleast 5-9 ways to stop convoke it literaly takes a focus macro, u se convoke interrupt within a fraction of a second and its done, if u died to convoke, u just were not observant. getting killed by a rouge sapping u and doing instantly 40.000 dmg within a fraction of a second whilkst u literaly cant stop it, is still okey tho

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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Finally. I really enjoyed getting Full Mooned for 28k on the first tick of Convoke.
    well full moon was at the end of a 4 second long channel that can be interrupted instantly, getting sapped then evicarated for 21.000 damage is still concidered okey tho i gues,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    Reasonable changes for once. Good job!
    well tbh is people cant interrupt the most obvius well known spell in the game, then they are shit., it was and still is the most worthless spell in the game in arena concidering people se a balance druid and they sit on them 100% poping everything nonstop on them till they are dead, several other classes had a way bigger upper hand over druids and now, even more. convoke was always a hail mary cast. it takes 4 seconds for it to come to the full moon, and any clas in the game has atleast 2-5 ways to stop it. several other spells in the game cant be stoped as easaly as convoke. monks can literaly train u indefanatly till u have nothing left to defend urself with and then u just die, most of the time as a balance u have to sit in bearform just to not die instantly to literaly everything. one of the hardest classes to master and survive with in pvp and they just made it way worse.

    so many other classes needs some kind of damage controll and nerfing but blizzard hates balance druids in pvp they always have

  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I can't wait to see how MMO-C's arm chair game developers look at these changes and assume that since they didn't completely overhaul the entire fucking game in a hotfix that there is nobody at Blizzard who knows how to read.
    This. People here and pretty much everyone outside of the WoW DEV team don't understand the negative affects that "nerfing" all these classes would have. You make changes that are high-ish priority, collect data to see if that worked as intended. If so, good. If not, you design some other changes. It's literally what every game ever has done and will continue to do.

    Listening to the playerbase about things like balance will never work. It's why random passionate sports fans in the stands don't become coaches. They don't understand the game enough and would be fired very quickly.

  15. #55
    Arms untouched, WW untouched, but instead they nerf a spell which can easily countered. Is this because of the AWC?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It looks like they're trying to address the correct issues but these changes come pretty late and the % of these changes are kinda low. I don't get this inconsequential attitude towards balancing the game.

    Is writing apologetics for Blizzard like your hobby or something? I really want to understand the reasoning behind someone opening a thread only to immediately start complaining about people who are unhappy with these changes before they have even posted something.

    How about pre-emptively muddying the waters by ridiculing and strawmanning people who disagree with Blizzard's decisions or think they don't go far enough?

    Amazing.
    If you think that simply critiquing for having completely unrealistic expectations for Blizzard's approach to class balancing makes me an 'apologist' then there isn't much to discuss here. The dude I quoted implied there was one fucking developer working on the game yet you want to try to paint me as being divisive. Amazing, indeed.

  17. #57
    WW monks do insane amounts of dmg and they stick on you like glue. They are far worse outliers than convoke or anything else atm. How can they be left untouched? Crazy. It's the no1 thing that should had been nerfed.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    If you think that simply critiquing for having completely unrealistic expectations for Blizzard's approach to class balancing makes me an 'apologist' then there isn't much to discuss here. The dude I quoted implied there was one fucking developer working on the game yet you want to try to paint me as being divisive. Amazing, indeed.
    You made the post before you even noticed that post and later quoted him in an edit.

  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virolykana View Post
    and there went balance for pvp :P i mean i cant count to how many times meles have literaly instakilled me within 1-2 seocnds unstoppable, rouges poping a cc on u then another one and another one and another one whilst doing 20.000 hit evicarates, or paladins healing themselves from 1-35000 ina global, several times, ww monks literaly being impossible to escape due to 100% slow and several other ccs, i have never died to a convoke being cast at me becaus gues what, there are 100 ways to stop it from being cast the milisecond someone casts it, im balance and i know how to stop convoke in one fraction of a second, and then that 2 minute of chance luck someone does not interrupt it it actualy kills someone. but a rouge saping u then doing 40.000 dms in 2 seconds thats fine, a warrior leaping in and oneshoting u, monk oneshoting u, firemage popping conbustin, wich has what 1/3 of the cooldown convoke has, and just blinking left right center upp down whilst casting a 35% of ur entire health pool dma with literaly no cd, yeah, kick on the balance druid blizzard, like you always do, god forbid balance should be usable in pvp nonnonon cant have that... blizzard has never will never and cant ever balance pvp. and they literaly despice balance druids to be able to play pvp. ohh btw any 2s team has atleast 4-9 ways to stop convoke, just saying. can u say the same for any other class? no u cant

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    well they removed the one thing balance druids had going for them in pvp, every single team of 2 or 3s has atleast 5-9 ways to stop convoke it literaly takes a focus macro, u se convoke interrupt within a fraction of a second and its done, if u died to convoke, u just were not observant. getting killed by a rouge sapping u and doing instantly 40.000 dmg within a fraction of a second whilkst u literaly cant stop it, is still okey tho

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    well full moon was at the end of a 4 second long channel that can be interrupted instantly, getting sapped then evicarated for 21.000 damage is still concidered okey tho i gues,

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    well tbh is people cant interrupt the most obvius well known spell in the game, then they are shit., it was and still is the most worthless spell in the game in arena concidering people se a balance druid and they sit on them 100% poping everything nonstop on them till they are dead, several other classes had a way bigger upper hand over druids and now, even more. convoke was always a hail mary cast. it takes 4 seconds for it to come to the full moon, and any clas in the game has atleast 2-5 ways to stop it. several other spells in the game cant be stoped as easaly as convoke. monks can literaly train u indefanatly till u have nothing left to defend urself with and then u just die, most of the time as a balance u have to sit in bearform just to not die instantly to literaly everything. one of the hardest classes to master and survive with in pvp and they just made it way worse.

    so many other classes needs some kind of damage controll and nerfing but blizzard hates balance druids in pvp they always have
    I talked mainly about WoG healing and Combustion/Triune Ward. The numbers are pretty conservative and further tuning might be needed. Generally, I think it is better to start with "small" nummerical adjustments instead of nerfing a spell/talent/spec to death.

    Convoke is a very strong CD, still. I am not a fan of I-win-buttons so I won't defend it too much. I am surprised it didn't get nerfed more, though.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Santas View Post
    Mage will still be OP because combust remains unchanged. What should all the other poor sods do that are nowhere near the power of fire mages, kill themselves? Stop being hyperbolic lol
    Combustion did get a nerf. Even at ilevel 200 it's a nearly 7% damage nerf.

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