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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

    RTWF is more of a spectacle is the TLDR. If it happened far more often or had a speed run component too it, people would grow just as bored of it as they do with the MDI.
    What I'm posing doesn't really have a right or wrong answer per se (I think) but could the race to world first be technically considered a speed run because people are trying to be the fastest to finish first?

    I can see how this is incorrect because speed runs are less about who is first vs who is the fastest though so not sure how to correctly interpret this

  2. #162
    I love both MDI and RTWF. I'm probably more hyped about RTWF but I really enjoy watching both

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by lurkanomics View Post
    What I'm posing doesn't really have a right or wrong answer per se (I think) but could the race to world first be technically considered a speed run because people are trying to be the fastest to finish first?

    I can see how this is incorrect because speed runs are less about who is first vs who is the fastest though so not sure how to correctly interpret this
    I think the main difference between RTWF and MDI is that while both are scripted PvE events and both are about being fast the MDI is basically solved content. Almost the same comps, doing almost the same routes and everyone goes in knowing what cooldown to press at what time on what pack.

    The RTWF is more watchable because its unknown, you don't know the fights and you learn what does or doesn't work together with the players in a way.

    Imagine if the MDI was about teams being dropped into a dungeon no one has ever seen before and having to figure it all out from scratch. It would likely be much more exciting to watch, but its obviously completely impractical in reality.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #164
    Wow has esports? lol!
    i have been playing wow since vanilla and the only esports in wow i heard of is some blizzard funded pvp arena thing that not even blizzard themselves watch.

    esports, just like regular televised sports, serve to make money in any and every way possible.
    there are no other considerations or priorities, if they could extract viewers soul for an extra 1cent they would do it.

    the more you follow the televised aspect of a sport/game the less you will enjoy it because only thing people care about is $ and winning no matter how lame or boring the strats are (lets goooo 3 moonkin teams).

  5. #165
    I love MDI! Sure, they could throw in some more "unknown abilitiies" to spice it up. Everything can be made better but still, I love it.

  6. #166
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightgate View Post
    I love MDI! Sure, they could throw in some more "unknown abilitiies" to spice it up. Everything can be made better but still, I love it.
    Paid actor ?

  7. #167
    MDI is one of the most boring things ever. But tbf so are nearly every easport leagues.

    Overwatch was fun to watch for a while because you could really see what the are doing. I get why people watch dota and lol.

    Not so much for Wow MDI and Arena or Starcraft for that matter.

    Imho the problem with MDI is just the setting. It is always same same without any differences. The routes are all set in stone. There are nearly 0 suprises or variation in the different runs.

    Games like overwatch, lol and dota are different every game because there is no one way to win. Esports should always be PvP. PvE is just weird.

    RTWF is another thing entirely. It is like a race in a new enviroment and only once every 6 month or so. MDI is more like parkour with the same hurdles evertime for 2 years.

  8. #168
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
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    RTWF isn't, in my opinion, a 'match' you can watch.
    I mean, it can take 1-2 weeks before the 'finale', and you never know when that finale truly is as the number of pulls it will take to down the boss is unclear.

    You can't go "lets tune in tonight between 20:00 and 22:00 and see who end up on top". So, 'watching' the RTWF is kinda lame until you get to the point where guilds are in the <10% HP mark of the final boss of the raid - in my opinion.

    In that regard I don't look at the RTWF as a e-sport. It's mostly an endurance race for the participating guilds to see who can squeeze in the most number of pulls in the timeframe they seem sufficient or on the boundaries of being healthy (because lets be real, RTWF isn't healthy in any way, physically nor mentally).

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    Esports are ruining the game, m+ is cancer and this garbage has no place it wow.
    m+ grants access to harder content for more of the playerbase since many will never touch raids so they at least have a choice to do something a little more challenging, it is your attitude that has no place for WoW, you dont need to do m+ its optional unless your a mythic raider and then you can get away with one 14 or higher key once a week.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  10. #170
    I wonder how it would work with sort of a draft/ban system. Having preset classes/specs with set item level (say, 210), each with different talent setup, legendaries and covenant, NONE of them being the "optimal" - so let's say, the 2 Balance Druids you'd be able to choose would be Ven and Necrolord. Each team drafts from the same pool or something to ensure people have different setups, and let's go.

    Having the exact same team play a dungeon the exact same time a few times is really not that fun to watch. Add some variance to it and MDI might be a pretty fun esport, even for those who don't currently play WoW. And for those who do, seeing off-meta picks could bring in players who play those classes and wanna see what they can possibly do.

  11. #171
    High Overlord KYH's Avatar
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    Would WoW still have been dropped from MLG even if MDI was a thing a decade ago?
    Blizzard have their eSports games, MDI is there to validate the shitty repetitive content known as m+
    Whether the world's greatest gnats, or the world's greats heroes, you're still only mortal!

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I wonder how it would work with sort of a draft/ban system. Having preset classes/specs with set item level (say, 210), each with different talent setup, legendaries and covenant, NONE of them being the "optimal" - so let's say, the 2 Balance Druids you'd be able to choose would be Ven and Necrolord. Each team drafts from the same pool or something to ensure people have different setups, and let's go.

    Having the exact same team play a dungeon the exact same time a few times is really not that fun to watch. Add some variance to it and MDI might be a pretty fun esport, even for those who don't currently play WoW. And for those who do, seeing off-meta picks could bring in players who play those classes and wanna see what they can possibly do.
    Or even better, Blizzard to pick some goofy comps that won't be revealed for the competitors until, say, a 1 minute pull timer is already running? Could be more interesting for the "masses" than the current format.
    Said it before, but shall say it again in case I'm being misunderstood here. Credit to the players who can squeeze out that level of optimization, it is far beyond of what I'd be able or willing to practice. The issue, however, for me and apparently quite a few others is that as technically flawless as it may be, the MDI is just not entertaining. And chances are that WoW-like games will never be. Forced myself to watch few of the arena tournament matches a couple of days ago and that wasn't the tiniest bit better.
    Last edited by ifrah; 2021-03-12 at 12:44 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Alatie View Post
    M+ did nothing short of saving what is left of wow, if you dont like repeating content a mmorpg is not a game for you.
    It's just showing how most players are completely antisocial and want to play WoW like a single player game, meanwhile they need the tools to show the others how good they are.

    M+ are just fine. They're not bad nor ultragood. They're fine. They also introduced a lot of troubles in the game balance PvE wise since they're the standard de facto to gear up characters from when they were introduced. Doesn't matter if your casual or hardcore, if you do your M+ you're gonna get geared 1000x faster than in raid.

    I'm not considering PvP (especially this season) because it's a different "game mode". And it's from forever that people ask for "BiS PvE gear from PvE, BiS PvP gear from PvP", so one can just do whatever activity they like the most.

    Given how M+ are spammable, require zero organization since pugs, and have a consistent upgrade/rewards path (even better now with VP), it's just normal people flock onto those. What i think is that they straight out took away the first M of MMO. It's literally like playing D3 and joining random GR groups.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  14. #174
    I tried to watch Echo VS Perplexed the other day... lasted about 10 minutes

    These guys are the best in the world, still somehow watching the same classes do the same dungeons over and over just was not entertaining

    “ Look “ .... look at the clever way they skip mechanics, look how they aoe’d that huge trash mob.... yaaaaawn

    It would be much more interesting as other posters have shared to have class bans, or have the teams play random classes

  15. #175
    m+ was created for blizzcon and mdi not for 99 percent of the other players.

    That's why it is so bad.

    Same with pvp it is balanced around 3v3 wit 226 gear

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    It would be much more interesting as other posters have shared to have class bans, or have the teams play random classes
    The MDI routes integrate cooldowns and interrupts and utility from the whole group and they have to practice it a lot just to be able to perform the routes in the tournament. A small mistake can break the whole route without any recovery and you do not only lose the death/wipe time but you cant even follow the practiced route anymore.

    How should a system with random classes even come close to this high-end gameplay?
    This worked out in PVP tournaments, where a random class could be used for some gimmick (READ: broken) kill-/cc-combo and for nothing else. MDI is not about AFK'ing and globaling another player, its a 15-20minute long choreography that usually punishes small mistakes unforgivingly hard.
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  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    The MDI routes integrate cooldowns and interrupts and utility from the whole group and they have to practice it a lot just to be able to perform the routes in the tournament. A small mistake can break the whole route without any recovery and you do not only lose the death/wipe time but you cant even follow the practiced route anymore.

    How should a system with random classes even come close to this high-end gameplay?
    This worked out in PVP tournaments, where a random class could be used for some gimmick (READ: broken) kill-/cc-combo and for nothing else. MDI is not about AFK'ing and globaling another player, its a 15-20minute long choreography that usually punishes small mistakes unforgivingly hard.
    but that is the entire problem.
    Its 'solved' content and boring as a result.
    There is not nearly enough variation and competition between the 2 parties running it. Its to often 2 identical comps running the identical route and 1 actual mistake and the game is over.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    but that is the entire problem.
    Its 'solved' content and boring as a result.
    There is not nearly enough variation and competition between the 2 parties running it. Its to often 2 identical comps running the identical route and 1 actual mistake and the game is over.
    Yep. There's a reason why chess gets better viewers numbers on twitch than MDI. Even if there are small differences or "epic plays", the average player csnt tell what is so special about it. All they can see is that there are 100 mobs on their screen, the fire mage popped up to 150k dps, and everything died really fast. That's all the average viewer will get out of it.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by lightgate View Post
    I love MDI! Sure, they could throw in some more "unknown abilitiies" to spice it up. Everything can be made better but still, I love it.
    We found one of the five viewers MDI usually gets.

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