The MDI is one of the lamest esports I've seen and I hope the RTWF stays independent.

[Alatie]

18s with 229 ilvl is a joke right?
Our group did +17 the other side with 210 ilvl. We were 4 min too slow but didn't wipe once.
So apparently we're all world class players now that could play in this tournament? Sad I didn't pick up they were given premade chars, because with my low ilvl I didn't even think of participating

I am sure with the same ilvl you would win MDI i am calling corsair right now to sponsor you as you will win it you are sick af m8.

[Tronski]

It isn't an esport. RTWF isn't an esport. Hope this helps. The commentary is predictable given how thin-skinned Blizzard are and how sensitive they are to political correctness. I personally don't understand how anyone can enjoy this stuff, it's even worse than AWC. At least pvp takes some modicum of skill.

The PC is actually getting out of hand all over the board. These forums are no exception. Say one thing that even a single person could find a way to take offense from and you have an infraction notice waiting for you. Blizzard has it like that, only they live in the land of cancel culture and la(nd of opportunity)wsuits.

[Tyris Flare]

See everyone?
This is what Blizzard did to the genre, and it's players.
MMORPG with REPEATING CONTENT? The creators of EQ1, DAoC and so on had a veeery different view.
Blizzard is butchering the genre day-by-day unfortunately.

Those games are twenty years old, man. Imagining complaining about EQ not being like Pong from the 70s.

Things change. The gaming world today is very different and MMOs have a lot of competition.

[Simple Rick]

Not only is it boring but its ridden with bugs... blizzard needs to accept they were late to the party rather then trying to break down the door.

[Toybox]

That they dont earn enough money for the effort that they put in.

Which is the same for the majority of hobbies people enjoy. If there's a scene big enough to support players then that scene could've developed naturally to a point where the pay would be reasonable for those involved - the fact it didn't tells you pretty much all you need to know. It just isn't big enough, & Blizzard are a company trying to make money at the end of the day. They're not going to lose money hosting tournaments just so people playing 18 hours a day can justify continuing to do so.

[La]

Blizzard has a habit of taking content or games that are always casual friendly and accessible/has something for everyone and forcing it to be competitive, and then balancing aspects of said game that have no right being balanced in that way around it.

It's the dumbest shit I've ever seen, and my brain hurts when people defend it, but they're just the victims of said issues. When you make a game for everyone, you make a game for no one, *especially* when you balance the areas SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for one group of people to be consumed by EVERYONE. All you do is make a divisive product. It's how raiding has so many difficulties. It's how M+ and Raiding created a divide. It's how M+ has hardcore and casuals. It's how you create large amount of people who do content they have no business being in, and then attempt to get the content changed because, as they progress and attempt to catch the carrot, the aspects not designed for them begin to show.

[dacoolist]

People complain because they can't even complete 15s in time and come on here like they are gods of WoW lol

If you dont like something: come on the forums and complain to make yourself look cool with absolutely no resolution

I bet you'd have the exact same thing with Race to world first or complain about arena because once again you don't play wow to begin with

tl;dr get good, and stop complaining because you have no idea what this 16.25 year old game is in the first place

[Toybox]

People complain because they can't even complete 15s in time and come on here like they are gods of WoW lol

If you dont like something: come on the forums and complain to make yourself look cool with absolutely no resolution

I bet you'd have the exact same thing with Race to world first or complain about arena because once again you don't play wow to begin with

tl;dr get good, and stop complaining because you have no idea what this 16.25 year old game is in the first place

The MDI needs the casuals you're bashing - the casuals don't need the MDI.

Most players watching The International aren't high level Dota players. Hell, most of them are barely average, but that game still racks up viewer counts in the millions because it's a fun spectacle to watch. It's a win/win situation - there's high level competition for all to enjoy, and the high (mostly casual) viewership allows the players to play for bigger & bigger prizepools, which in turn breeds more & more competition.

Now the MDI does little to nothing to appeal to the larger casual audience, & so the end result is inevitable. Give it a few years as it stands & I can see the MDI fading even more, just as the LoL/CSGO/Dota tournaments would fade if you took all the casual viewership/interest out of it.

So, like I said, the casuals don't need the MDI, but the MDI certainly needs the casuals.

[HCLM]

People complain because they can't even complete 15s in time and come on here like they are gods of WoW lol

If you dont like something: come on the forums and complain to make yourself look cool with absolutely no resolution

I bet you'd have the exact same thing with Race to world first or complain about arena because once again you don't play wow to begin with

tl;dr get good, and stop complaining because you have no idea what this 16.25 year old game is in the first place

And how is that related to blizzard terribly managing MDI? Or u are so good at WoW that u didn't have time to learn how to read?

[sil3ntearth]

There's always meta MDI or not. MDI just lays it bare.

Agree 100%. People may flame me for bringing up LoL here, but it's why the banning champs in LoL works so well. It's not feasible in WoW though as expecting MDI or RTWF players having every class prepped to that level would be insane. Either way, I think it's really the only way you'd be able to keep every MDI going forward be anything but meta comps.

[dewd]

wow arena 'esports' is much lamer. but mdi is pretty bad, yes. they needed to cycle through the players' pov on big pulls for example to make it interesting but how it is now all you get it the dps meter

[Ezyah]

If an offucial blizz stream would allow his cimmentator to go off the grid and not be totallt neutral / bland, u can be sure some twitter mob would find something ofensive / discriminant. As a company you have to be VERY Careful nowaday not to go away from the script.

[Tojara]

Picks and bans like in MOBAs just wouldn't work in an MMO format.

Blizzard isn't going to dump excessive amounts of money into something that doesn't have an enormous audience.

I don't really watch either but I'll sometimes tune into the MDI to see if they're doing something crazy and/or I'll jump into RTWF threads to read the drama when somebodies favorite NASCAR beats the others favorite NASCAR because I find that shit hilarious. It's plain as day why the RTWF is fairly popular while the MDI isn't. RTWF happens every 6 months in a max two week period with content that people haven't really seen before. MDI holds way more tournaments in a similar amount of time, with compositions that barely change, in dungeons that everybody does for 2 years. You would think that people would connect with the MDI more because it's an activity that most players participate in (dungeons), but they don't. Over exposure by having too many events, the same dungeons over and over, and a meta that's pretty locked in.

RTWF is more of a spectacle is the TLDR. If it happened far more often or had a speed run component too it, people would grow just as bored of it as they do with the MDI.

[Xath]

They made a deal with Youtube last year, and all the Blizzard competitions (OW, HS...) are broadcasted on Youtube aswell. That's shitty for the audience because Twitch is way better.



I fail to see that in retail. I don't have any issues getting invited for the level of keys at my level both in BfA and Shadowlands even with 0 r.io score and not playing fotm specs and didn't see the "GOGOGO HURR DURR" people are complaining about. And you have absolutely zero authority to lecture people about why people play video games or should enjoy games.

Twitch is actually worse in almost every regard except for userbase because it was big in live streaming first and finding streams is much harder on youtube. Stream quality and data usage and cpu usage is all better on youtube streams by a significant amount. Twitch was just there first.

[Jotaux]

Put in a draft with bans and people will flock to the MDI.

[LordVargK]

I've been thinking about it some more, & all I can really say is I think the MDI deserves to be where it is.

All this recent discussion from people talking about how the MDI needs saving/more funding etc... Am I the only one who thinks that the audience isn't really there, & while Blizzard didn't really do the best job, they just can't force an esport to turn out good/popular (see HotS for a perfect example).

Was talking about it with a guildy, & fighting games are a good example of the opposite. There was no companies holding tournaments, no support from them at all, but the community was there so they pooled together & made their own tournaments & they're fecking huge. If competitive M+ is so good then why can't these folks make their own tournament if it's all Blizzard's fault? Maybe doing 1v1 runs on identical keys would be hard without Blizzard's help, but there's other ways to do it if they couldn't get onto a tournament realm at least.

I don't know... Could Blizzard have done more? Absolutely, but if it was really good to begin with then it wouldn't matter as it'd definitely succeed through player passion, just like fighting games did. Hell actually, you needn't even look at other games - The RTWF was born because the interest was there & the players made it possible. If the interest isn't there for the MDI, & the hours required don't make financial sense for the players, then I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.

This. Blizzard can't force a game/gamemode. WoW is just not a good game to watch in general, especially since they nerfed the maximum view distance in Legion. In contrast to other games, WoW Esports will confuse anyone not playing WoW and most people playing WoW seem to rather play the game than watch it. Your assessment seems absolutely on point.

[Th3Scourge]

It's unwatchable

It's exactly what you can expect from a soulless woke corporation that can't show any form of personality out of fear of being called out for any form of deviation from the PC hegemony

This is the future. This is what happens when the mob rules

[lurkanomics]

RTWF is more of a spectacle is the TLDR. If it happened far more often or had a speed run component too it, people would grow just as bored of it as they do with the MDI.

What I'm posing doesn't really have a right or wrong answer per se (I think) but could the race to world first be technically considered a speed run because people are trying to be the fastest to finish first?

I can see how this is incorrect because speed runs are less about who is first vs who is the fastest though so not sure how to correctly interpret this

[Kaver]

I love both MDI and RTWF. I'm probably more hyped about RTWF but I really enjoy watching both

[Gorsameth]

What I'm posing doesn't really have a right or wrong answer per se (I think) but could the race to world first be technically considered a speed run because people are trying to be the fastest to finish first?

I can see how this is incorrect because speed runs are less about who is first vs who is the fastest though so not sure how to correctly interpret this

I think the main difference between RTWF and MDI is that while both are scripted PvE events and both are about being fast the MDI is basically solved content. Almost the same comps, doing almost the same routes and everyone goes in knowing what cooldown to press at what time on what pack.

The RTWF is more watchable because its unknown, you don't know the fights and you learn what does or doesn't work together with the players in a way.

Imagine if the MDI was about teams being dropped into a dungeon no one has ever seen before and having to figure it all out from scratch. It would likely be much more exciting to watch, but its obviously completely impractical in reality.