Calia will ruin the forsaken

[Makabreska]

Faction leaders live much longer than your standard "Jailer/Kil'Jaeden/whatever". She sided with him so what? She pursues her own motives and in fact tells everybody how stupid this whole system is where you spend like 5 mins being alive and then eternity cleaning shit in Shadowlands.

She clearly won't share his fate because that would mean Garrosh 2.0 and writers said Sylvanas won't end up like this.

Ye ok, time to bring the usual stuff you people simply can't excuse: 10k nelv citizens cooked alive and knowingly sent to the Maw. No amount of "pursuing her own goals" or "fighting the system" can explain this. These mental gymnastics were presented here so many times. And about writers saying she wont be Garrosh 2.0: "Grom will be WoD's final boss".

[VladlTutushkin]

sorry, when you nelf started to burn and polluting forests? because i could even never played an alliance character, but i cant remeber anything remotely similar, even in gnome or dwarf quests

Oh, they havent went that road. They went another road, by losing all their teeth, converting into human sidekicks and becoming so weak and helpless that they cant even protect themselves. Actually same what Calia might do to Forsaken.

Turn from forest defender to forest defiler... Oh wait they DID, the undead night elves. But thats besides the point.
So a turn from one to another happened, but it was from "fierce defender" to "whimpering victim". From "proud warriors" to "damsel in distress".

[AcidicSyn]

That's my issue, i been in so many threads where people say they hate Calia but every one of the complaints i seen can be countered by Slyvanas or another prominent figure that most have no issues with. Just doesn't make sense to me or maybe there's just some other reason that no one has be able to articulate.

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Well she's undead. But again look at Slyvannas, people should object to her, she's not from Lorderon, not even human, her body is completely intact and nearly perfect. I don't see how she's more viable than Calia under those terms.

play, or re-play WC3:TFT and you should have your answer as to why Sylvanas was fit to lead the Forsaken at the beginning and why Calia hasn't earned it.

I don't think anyone pretends that synlvanas retains that status though, she's clearly unfit to lead anything now. But when the forsaken were formed? She was the leader they needed and shared their pain and trials. She was even there with them when the Alliance shunned them, giving them their name. Calia remained in hiding rather than reaching out to her people.

She could be a leader someday, many of the forsaken (as read in BTS) still revere the Menethil line showing quite clearly that they separate Arthas from his sister. If she did it now though It would, in my opinion, feel rushed and disjointed.

[VladlTutushkin]

Ye ok, time to bring the usual stuff you people simply can't excuse: 10k nelv citizens cooked alive and knowingly sent to the MAw. No amount of "pursuing her own goals" or "fighting the system" can explain this. these mental gymnastics were presented here so many times. And about writers saying she wont be Garrosh 2.0: "Grom will be WoD's final boss".

And even if they dont give a fuck about nelves she also doomed ALL horde souls that died during the War to the Maw. All those soldiers who gave their lives are now "rewarded" by endless torture and mutilation.

[bagina]

10k nelv citizens .

Source on this? Did they say the exact number somewhere?

[VladlTutushkin]

This.

I distinctly remember a time when I was excited to find out new things about the lore. When a new expansion or patch came out I read through every bit of datamining to find new information about Death Knight lore and undead lore in general. Nowadays, I just sit there hoping Blizzard will ignore the lore I'm interested in because they somehow managed to ruin almost everything they touched over the last 8 years or so. It's actually quite the achievement.

Thats why i always say that less is more in WoW. I envy Dwarves compared to night elves. All i ever wanted was to sit in my forest. Dwarves can sit in their mountain (on their mountain too) and thats just about great for me. Grand even. Just having a zone and sitting there.

[Combatbulter]

Source on this? Did they say the exact number somewhere?

It was most likely far more, teldrassil was compared to a small nation, should have been a few million to be honest.

[bagina]

It was most likely far more, teldrassil was compared to a small nation, should have been a few million to be honest.

Perhaps even six gorrilion

[Makabreska]

Iirc 10k was taken from quest tracker, but ye. Faaaar more lore-wise.

[VladlTutushkin]

Perhaps even six gorrilion

Very funny... It was a LOT. Because there were all the elves from Ashenvale, Darkshore and Teldrassil. All crammed to one zone and then torched in utter panic and chaos.

And you guys lose your mind over one hunting camp being burned down , just leaving it here.

[omeomorfismo]

Oh, they havent went that road. They went another road, by losing all their teeth, converting into human sidekicks and becoming so weak and helpless that they cant even protect themselves. Actually same what Calia might do to Forsaken.

Turn from forest defender to forest defiler... Oh wait they DID, the undead night elves. But thats besides the point.
So a turn from one to another happened, but it was from "fierce defender" to "whimpering victim". From "proud warriors" to "damsel in distress".

rotfl, dude, the forsaken were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more ignored in the story for more waaaaaaaaaaaaaay time than night elves (damn there are forced druid stories every single expansion).
are the humans a plague in the setting? sure, but most of the bullshit its simply memeed too death (even by me) than real. your night elves arent never out of character, even when crying for undeads elves (i mean, they felt corrupted by every single cosmic force, but apparently death cant).

[Combatbulter]

And even if they dont give a fuck about nelves she also doomed ALL horde souls that died during the War to the Maw. All those soldiers who gave their lives are now "rewarded" by endless torture and mutilation.

To play devils advocate here, she intends to remodel a universe spanning system, affecting trillions upon trillions of souls for the better, compared to that a few millions are nothing.

But then again considering the one she chose to break the system with, makes the entire idea utterly moronic, but hey blizz storytelling. Their characters usually don't have more than one working braincell.

[VladlTutushkin]

rotfl, dude, the forsaken were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more ignored in the story for more waaaaaaaaaaaaaay time than night elves.
are the humans a plague in the setting? sure, but most of the bullshit its simply memeed too death (even by me) than real. your night elves arent never out of character, even when crying for undeads elves (i mean, they felt corrupted by every single cosmic force, but apparently death cant).

Those undead elves make no sense, not because corruption cant happen but because of how they mirror forsaken but... somehow they just LOVE their "Arthas".

"Ignored"? You were robbed of Arthas kill, sure. But then? Cata in EK is Forsaken Fiesta with all the bells and whistles you can beg for. And later their prominence in the Horde only grew.

And no, night elves lost all their character and were reduced to some kind of... "wallmart high elves" for the Alliance.

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To play devils advocate here, she intends to remodel a universe spanning system, affecting trillions upon trillions of souls for the better, compared to that a few millions are nothing.

I rather be ignored the given attention like Blizz give to nelves.

But then again considering the one she chose to break the system with, makes the entire idea utterly moronic, but hey blizz storytelling. Their characters usually don't have more than one working braincell.

I also would not trust someone who resorts to extremist methods to build a better system. In the end she will just make another system, even more fucked up and cruel then previous one. Same as Reds did in Russia.

[Makabreska]

To play devils advocate here, she intends to remodel a universe spanning system, affecting trillions upon trillions of souls for the better, compared to that a few millions are nothing.

But then again considering the one she chose to break the system with, makes the entire idea utterly moronic, but hey blizz storytelling. Their characters usually don't have more than one working braincell.

And let's not fool ourselves that she is doing it for others. All she want is to dodge HER eternal damnation.

[Combatbulter]

Perhaps even six gorrilion

From a worldbuilding standpoint it should have been a lot, loosing thousands of people is negligible in any decently fleshed out world.

[bagina]

Very funny... It was a LOT. Because there were all the elves from Ashenvale, Darkshore and Teldrassil. All crammed to one zone and then torched in utter panic and chaos.

And you guys lose your mind over one hunting camp being burned down , just leaving it here.

Sorry, couldn't resist. lmaoo

For the record though, I've never mentioned camp Tuarajo, because I don't care for it. I only care about the events that affect or relate to my favourite characters.

[AcidicSyn]

What's that supposed to mean? If you think Blizzard is going to follow political standards of the middle ages then you're wrong. Especially in this day and age.

They actually did lol.

Calia is Arthas' older sister and yet Arthas was the heir to the throne. Sure, blizz would undoutedly change that now, but they still wrote King Terenas naming Arthas the heir over Calia at one point.

[Arrashi]

Maybe having in your faction a race full of borderline psychopaths is bad for group cohesion and story progression? Maybe it's time to stabilize them? You want Wrathgate\Darkshore to happen every now and then? Thrall, who never experienced demonic bloodlust (and wasn't burdened by the trauma), led Orcs quite well all those years. Sometimes an outside perspective is superior.

Better than making them bland humans with skin condition.

[Aresk]

Considering that pretty much all of the Forsaken are former Alliance characters (Sylvanas, the people of Lordaeron, night elves), I don't think the "She's Alliance" is a compelling argument. Given that all of the Forsaken created from Cata onward were never under Arthas' sway, mind control is not a requirement of being Forsaken. Given all the Forsaken created from Cata onward were never cast out, that's also not a requirement of being Forsaken. After Cataclysm, the Forsaken were recharacterized as a people of undead who chose to dwell with one another. Lillian herself wasn't Forsaken until BfA, choosing to be neutral for most of her time in WoW's history. There's a reason you get chat options about why she finally decided to join the Horde.

I think the Lightforged undead is a good argument, and more importantly, Calia has never opted to choose to join the Forsaken. She has offered them her aid. Lillian, who is apparently the de facto leader of the Forsaken after Sylvanas abdicated, accepted it. I don't really see Calia as leading the Forsaken unless they ask her to, in which case, the Forsaken will be the ones to "ruin" what it means to be Forsaken, not Calia.

[VladlTutushkin]

Sorry, couldn't resist. lmaoo

For the record though, I've never mentioned camp Tuarajo, because I don't care for it. I only care about the events that affect or relate to my favourite characters.

Frankly speaking - try to resist in the future? Makes it really hard not to.. you know, write down all horde players as assholes. And i really want to get over that opinion i got during BfA.

Blood elves suffered somewhat similar losses and they entirely rebuilt their culture over it, pretty much wrapping their whole ethos around that one genocide.

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Better than making them bland humans with skin condition.

Better Blizz not make every other faction entirely toothless. But since they did forsaken cannot exist in such setting. So Blizz have to either make all other races "harder" or "soften up" the forsaken. Guess what they will choose?