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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    that he is jackass trying to sound smart and failing miserably
    When horde players say so they launch a catapult worth of rocks inside their own glass palace.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    bullshit, you know that sylvanas organized the forsaken and won the plaguelands civil wars, that repurposed them after the lk and let them became a major superpower. thats the fucking definition of making them strong. she has other interest, sure, it doesnt change a jack shit about the rest.

    yes, thats the entire base of the fanatism RP of the forsaken
    Using someone as cannon fodder doesn't make them strong. It makes you strong not them.

    And why did u bold the Voss part? She was against Sylvanas and in a single expansion willingly left her ideals behind to follow her blindly.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-01-25 at 06:09 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    As in all topics virtually everyone who pushes for Calia neither plays nor likes Forsaken or even Horde for that matter. That said, the topic title is wrong in the sense that the Forsaken have been dead since BTS and everything else has just been the world's most drawnout funeral.

    Also memes that equate Sylvanas shooting down defecting high officials in melodramatic weepy prose to genocide or mining materials to Brennadam is god tier.
    "People who disagree with me are bad and have ill intent"

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    "People who disagree with me are bad and have ill intent"
    There's nothing bad about disliking fictional characters, but a spade is a spade. You're welcome to point me to someone who doesn't fit that gist, I'll wait.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Using someone as cannon fodder doesn't make them strong. It makes you strong not them.

    And why did u bold the Voss part? She was against Sylvanas and in a single expansion willingly left her ideals behind to follow her blindly.
    because i mistranslated that part, my bad

    anyway "cannon fodder" is lie. she used them as bulwark, thats completely a different thing
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Using someone as cannon fodder doesn't make them strong. It makes you strong not them.

    And why did u bold the Voss part? She was against Sylvanas and in a single expansion willingly left her ideals behind to follow her blindly.
    She literally turned the Forsaken from a ragtag bunch of scared, confused undead without a place in the world to one of the strongest powers on Azeroth (which they proved even when Sylvanas wasn't around to command them), but please do go on how she didn't make them strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    There's nothing bad about disliking fictional characters, but a spade is a spade. You're welcome to point me to someone who doesn't fit that gist, I'll wait.
    I have and play Forsaken characters, I like the Forsaken and I like Calia Menethil. But I suppose there's other assumptions you can make to delegitimize me as a fan of the race and the game lore as a whole. I accept that you dislike her, I have crossed paths with you on this subject before. I have no problem with your position on the character or the direction of the race, I just hoped you would extend the same respect to people with different opinions, without making negative assumptions to waive them aside from the start.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    They actually did lol.

    Calia is Arthas' older sister and yet Arthas was the heir to the throne. Sure, blizz would undoutedly change that now, but they still wrote King Terenas naming Arthas the heir over Calia at one point.
    Yeah but that was in 2004.

  9. #269
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Yeah but that was in 2004.
    The Human kingdoms in WoW are probably built along the model of medieval Europe, using male primogeniture as the rule of the day. That is to say, the crown passes to a ruler's eldest son first, then to the next eligible son, and finally down the tree until they run out of male children or grandchildren. Only then would it come to rest at a daughter as a possible queen, but would move to her husband were she to marry.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    She literally turned the Forsaken from a ragtag bunch of scared, confused undead without a place in the world to one of the strongest powers on Azeroth (which they proved even when Sylvanas wasn't around to command them), but please do go on how she didn't make them strong.
    They became one of the stronger powers of Azeroth because of the Horde. Which she only sided with to keep her ass alive longer. She also Knowingly cursed everyone she raised to a horrible second life and death.

    She even betrayed her boytoy in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    because i mistranslated that part, my bad

    anyway "cannon fodder" is lie. she used them as bulwark, thats completely a different thing
    Cannon Fodder is accurate as she used them in war. She could have easily ask thrall to let the join in a non combative capacity but she didn't she let them continually go on the front lines and perma die since she could always raise more.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2021-01-25 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    I have and play Forsaken characters, I like the Forsaken and I like Calia Menethil. But I suppose there's other assumptions you can make to delegitimize me as a fan of the race and the game lore as a whole. I accept that you dislike her, I have crossed paths with you on this subject before. I have no problem with your position on the character or the direction of the race, I just hoped you would extend the same respect to people with different opinions, without making negative assumptions to waive them aside from the start.
    We have discussed this before and I specifically call your position respectable on the same page you're quoting me from:

    The only respectable pro-Calia position is the honest one, which is by people who don't like the Forsaken and think what she represents, retcon or not, is preferable and would be something they enjoy playing.
    You didn't enjoy the Forsaken before BTS, but enjoy their characterization there and think it's a valid trade to ditch their prior aspects so that you can enjoy this version of them. That's fine. I can vehemently disagree with you and what this being a zero sum situation I'd much prefer I keep the race I've enjoyed even if it means those who do enjoy Calia lose what they like about her. But that doesn't mean that it isn't an accurate description of you and many other posters on this or the weakness of the pro-Calia position on substantive or continuity grounds.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #272
    Pandaren Monk Marmot's Avatar
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    How many major Forsaken characters are there? I can't even think of any besides Lilian Voss and Calia. Maybe this is the time for them to consider fleshing them out with some interesting characters that aren't just copy pastes of others with different names.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    We have discussed this before and I specifically call your position respectable on the same page you're quoting me from:



    You didn't enjoy the Forsaken before BTS, but enjoy their characterization there and think it's a valid trade to ditch their prior aspects so that you can enjoy this version of them. That's fine. I can vehemently disagree with you and what this being a zero sum situation I'd much prefer I keep the race I've enjoyed even if it means those who do enjoy Calia lose what they like about her. But that doesn't mean that it isn't an accurate description of you and many other posters on this or the weakness of the pro-Calia position on substantive or continuity grounds.
    Well thank you for extending that sentiment. I'll just insist on a small correction: I did enjoy the Forsaken before BTS. I have enjoyed them since Warcraft III. I just also enjoy Calia and whatever new aspects she may bring to them. I understand they're probably dissimilar aspects, I just have appreciation for both. I say "probably" because we've barely seen anything from Calia and what themes she may bring, which is why I also feel that it seems precocious to pigeonhole her already.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    They became one of the stronger powers of Azeroth because of the Horde. Which she only sided with to keep her ass alive longer. She also Knowingly cursed everyone she raised to a horrible second life and death.

    She even betrayed her boytoy in the end.



    Cannon Fodder is accurate as she used them in war. She could have easily ask thrall to let the join in a non combative capacity but she didn't she let them continually go on the front lines and perma die since she could always raise more.
    are you speaking pre or post cata?
    pre cata everyone was in suicide charge, even sylvanas herself
    after, only garrosh used the forsaken as cannon fodder and sylvanas run from northrend to stop specifically his methods

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmot View Post
    How many major Forsaken characters are there? I can't even think of any besides Lilian Voss and Calia. Maybe this is the time for them to consider fleshing them out with some interesting characters that aren't just copy pastes of others with different names.
    belmont (<3), faranell, lydon, hercular, mortuus, ghunter, the black bride, damn even gordo and the comrade from deathknell are better than voss
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  15. #275
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    The forsaken were ruined 11 years ago, when they went from "what joy is there in this curse?" and "free will matters more than anything to us" to being perfectly fine forcing undeath upon others.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    Well thank you for extending that sentiment. I'll just insist on a small correction: I did enjoy the Forsaken before BTS. I have enjoyed them since Warcraft III. I just also enjoy Calia and whatever new aspects she may bring to them. I understand they're probably dissimilar aspects, I just have appreciation for both. I say "probably" because we've barely seen anything from Calia and what themes she may bring, which is why I also feel that it seems precocious to pigeonhole her already.
    what are the contact point with the deathstalkers and apothecaries and anything voss or calia did? really, "probably dissimar aspects"? they are not a 180° turn but a 900° turn with somersault included

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The Human kingdoms in WoW are probably built along the model of medieval Europe, using male primogeniture as the rule of the day. That is to say, the crown passes to a ruler's eldest son first, then to the next eligible son, and finally down the tree until they run out of male children or grandchildren. Only then would it come to rest at a daughter as a possible queen, but would move to her husband were she to marry.
    actually in golden's novel its expliticed written that calia wasnt even considered to be an heir. she was a woman and was only marriage material, nothing more. explicity.
    its even reiterated in the bts novel that she didnt received any political teaching...
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  17. #277
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    The forsaken were ruined 11 years ago, when they went from "what joy is there in this curse?" and "free will matters more than anything to us" to being perfectly fine forcing undeath upon others.
    Yeah, because they totally didn't have lobotomites running in UC since vanilla.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Yeah, because they totally didn't have lobotomites running in UC since vanilla.
    oh, and they absolutely ever never built any abomination until cata!
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

  19. #279
    Warchief Ardenaso's Avatar
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    you guys should know that Forsaken is anything free willed undead: from Humans to High Elves to Nerubians to Trolls to Dwarves to Orcs to Night Elves to Banshees to Obsidian Statues

    Sylvanas is fine as leader; Velonara could also be fine as leader; heck even Sira could be fine as a leader

    - - - Updated - - -

    also, haven't seen an Alliance vs. Horde argument since like 3 months now; you guys should also know that Alliance isn't meant to be the good faction and the Horde isn't meant to be the evil faction. It's more like Alliance is law and order and Horde is chaos and permissibility where the Horde can be cruel to the cruel to look for peace and the Alliance can oppress others under the guise of peace, and other way around. I know the Horde did many evil things but the Alliance is yet to be held accountable for the Tyr's Hand massacre, the Stonespire genocide, and the Purge of Dalaran
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    (Alteraci Human thread in construction)

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Calia is one of those topics where there's really no way to muster any kind of merit-based argument in her favor. The only respectable pro-Calia position is the honest one, which is by people who don't like the Forsaken and think what she represents, retcon or not, is preferable and would be something they enjoy playing.
    While I disagree with your points above, I freely admit this is part fo my reasoning. Don't think I have ever hidden my dislike for the Forsaken, not because I dislike the race itself or want people to not have their RP. I dislike how they are implemented and think they just do not fit. They should not be part of the Horde, or any non-evil organisation, because that requires people around them to become blind and stupid. Yes, they have created a bit of conflict in the Horde, but by far too little for the things they have done and didn't do.

    Like how about the Cows asking how far the RAS got on that cure? Because that was kind of a thing when they recommend Thrall to let them join, but woops 15 years later and still no cure. Now I am not unfair, there most likely is no cure to be found, but since we know the RAS never even attempted to make one it is mighty convenient that the Cows never even asked, right?
    Last edited by Raisei; 2021-01-25 at 09:47 PM.

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