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  1. #81
    Lilian is not a real forsaken like all cata forsaken.
    Blizz had the joice to use real forsaken with the defeat of the Lich King and they made up those new retards instead to comply with 8 years old player. Culmination being Calia.
    Calia and Lilian are the same shit.

  2. #82
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    point taken, havent leveled undead in ages dont realy remember that... do we know how she died?

    still, raised into undead by necromantic power, so except being controled by LK, pretty much the same as other forsaken (and exactly the same as NEW forsaken), while Calia have fuck all in common with both old and new forsaken
    Calia kinda had to die in order to be raised as a Undead? That's kinda a very common trait all Undead share. None of them probably wanted to die and I doubt none of them probably wanted to be raised into Undead, including Calia. Sylvanas used them as pawns...at least Calia cares about them, many of them her own people.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  3. #83
    Calia Menethil leading the Forsaken is basically just the white saviour trope just like Sylvanas is the "Unstable Powered Woman" trope. It's actually funny how Blizzard has hired more woke people over the years but they somehow unintentionally write shit like this. Very ironic.

  4. #84
    Sylvanas was Alliance-aligned (Lordaeron's Alliance) too, when she was a living High Elf, and she didn't have any connection to the Horde (if anything, they were her enemies), just like Calia. And both of them aren't a proper forsaken (as forsaken are human zombies, with few exceptions) but something different and kinda unique undeads. To be fair Calia, as an ex-human and an ex-Lordaeronian, is way closer to "her" people than Sylvanas ever was. On top of that, she cares about them way more than Sylvanas ever did, as they were always just her meat-shield and a tool for her ambitions (i know that she wasn't always like that and her actions were recently, some would say, "retconned", but this is the way Blizzard choose for her character and is official, like it or not).
    You can dislike her as the leader of the Forsaken (even if she isn't their leader, at least yet), but maybe you could give her character some time, instead of hating on her just because you think she's too different from the forsakens. Sylvanas was very different too in the beginning, and nobody ever had a problem with her as the forsaken leader. Even Varian and Anduin weren't very popular as leaders in the beginning, but Blizzard managed to make both of the likable. Maybe they will fail this time, who knows, but give them some time.

  5. #85
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Calia kinda had to die in order to be raised as a Undead? That's kinda a very common trait all Undead share. None of them probably wanted to die and I doubt none of them probably wanted to be raised into Undead, including Calia. Sylvanas used them as pawns...at least Calia cares about them, many of them her own people.
    Sylvanas fan do not care for the real leaders of forsaken.
    Like undead humans leading undead humans.

    Imo I think Blizz mad a mistake by having forsaken and join the horde. They should have reconnected with the Alliance.

    Sylvanas is just a bitter life hating banshee. Just another Arrogant elf who had not right to lead the people of Lordaeron.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    She is come fake light undead thing that stands above all the rotted Forsaken as a beautiful golden reminder of what they lost.
    And Sylvanas, I'm sure, was a rotted mess under that slut-mog she wore for three expansions too.

  7. #87
    Blizzard already ruined forsaken when they decided that Undeath was a downgrade. Nobody would willingly become Undead(huge point in Wrath with the cult of the Damned) if they had to constantly worry about rotting away. Before the Storm book changed all that and made undead completely pointless. Golden also decided that Forsaken were just normal people, just dead! When for 15 years they were cursed, ugly and unable to feel positive emotions. Most were either extremely depressed or just fueled by rage. Walking psychopaths that know they are not supposed to be the way they are but unable to really change it. Death Knights suffer all the same things but with an added curse that if they dont kill regularly they will lose their mind and go on a endless killing spree anyways but without choice.

    Old Lore Light burns away true death magic. The main players back then Ashbringer/Scarlet crusade/silver hand ect.... because they were the most effective cosmic force against it. Creating Calia shouldn't have been possible. They even doubled down on the Light burning undead in Revendreth which makes Calia existences even dumber. She also thinks she *Knows* what the Forsaken have gone through while being a cosmic paradox would make any normal Forsaken angry. She wasn't forced to kill her own family/people and unable to do anything while your soul is tied to your corpse damaged to the point that even in Death you are cursed and tossed into the Maw. (untill more retcons I suppose).

  8. #88
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    And Sylvanas, I'm sure, was a rotted mess under that slut-mog she wore for three expansions too.
    Nope just a Banshee ghost.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Haunting_spirit_TCG.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Blizzard already ruined forsaken when they decided that Undeath was a downgrade. Nobody would willingly become Undead(huge point in Wrath with the cult of the Damned) if they had to constantly worry about rotting away. Before the Storm book changed all that and made undead completely pointless. Golden also decided that Forsaken were just normal people, just dead! When for 15 years they were cursed, ugly and unable to feel positive emotions. Most were either extremely depressed or just fueled by rage. Walking psychopaths that know they are not supposed to be the way they are but unable to really change it. Death Knights suffer all the same things but with an added curse that if they dont kill regularly they will lose their mind and go on a endless killing spree anyways but without choice.

    Old Lore Light burns away true death magic. The main players back then Ashbringer/Scarlet crusade/silver hand ect.... because they were the most effective cosmic force against it. Creating Calia shouldn't have been possible. They even doubled down on the Light burning undead in Revendreth which makes Calia existences even dumber. She also thinks she *Knows* what the Forsaken have gone through while being a cosmic paradox would make any normal Forsaken angry. She wasn't forced to kill her own family/people and unable to do anything while your soul is tied to your corpse damaged to the point that even in Death you are cursed and tossed into the Maw. (untill more retcons I suppose).
    Light still burns away death, as you stated in Revendreth. I think the creation of Calia in undeath is an Omen. Especially with the void prophecy of “ The Light has made a pact with the enemy of all.”

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Calia kinda had to die in order to be raised as a Undead? That's kinda a very common trait all Undead share. None of them probably wanted to die and I doubt none of them probably wanted to be raised into Undead, including Calia. Sylvanas used them as pawns...at least Calia cares about them, many of them her own people.

    yeah she died, and thats all she have common with forsaken, bcs even the resurection was different...

    funny how she care about them now she is undead too...
    forsaken joined horde bcs alliance turned their back on them, where was she?
    a goddamn princes like her, who could actualy be of help to them, if nothing else then she could try to plead for them on royal court in stormwind, remind king of stormwind that it was lordaeron who took him in with other refugees after sw was burned down by the orcs, get them some help...
    she did nothing for them, they were abandoned, and it was tauren, not her, who helped them, who took pity on them and get them to horde...

    and then she did something stupid and provocative (showed on meeting in arati), was killed and raised, not as one of them, but by the light, and all of a sudden she wants to help them?
    ok, she can help, but be a leader? fuck no... a goddamn mushroom vendor from UC would be more fitting leader for forsaken

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Sylvanas fan do not care for the real leaders of forsaken.
    Like undead humans leading undead humans.

    Imo I think Blizz mad a mistake by having forsaken and join the horde. They should have reconnected with the Alliance.

    Sylvanas is just a bitter life hating banshee. Just another Arrogant elf who had not right to lead the people of Lordaeron.
    fuck sylvanas, she used forsaken as tool, but sylvanas being bitch doesnt make Calia good choice for a forsaken leader...

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Fake light undead thing? Really. That is the dumbest thing I heard a person utter.

    She died and than was raised to be undead. The only difference is that it was not a plague but a naaru that did it. That is it.

    Saying shes not fit to lead due to the way she was raised is stupid. She is LITERALLY the queen of lordaeron.
    Ya and that's what makes it a lame fake undead.

  11. #91
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Before the Storm book changed all that and made undead completely pointless. Golden also decided that Forsaken were just normal people, just dead! When for 15 years they were cursed, ugly and unable to feel positive emotions. Most were either extremely depressed or just fueled by rage. Walking psychopaths that know they are not supposed to be the way they are but unable to really change it.
    Come to think about it, Golden could have finished the job and changed the name of the race, since they aren't Forsaken anymore... Maybe the Embraced?
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    lol but he’s as much human as Calia is forsaken. You can’t be intellectually honest here and pretend the two are massively different. He’s a fully kept together preserved human that’s dead. Imagine he betrayed Sylvanas to save Anduin and now gets a place in Stormwind as a leader. It would be a problem not just thematically but for the actual story.
    It's actually Intellectually dishonest to try to even remotely suggest some sort of parallel between the two. It's not even close on any margin or measure. I've addressed this already and others have.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Blizzard already ruined forsaken when they decided that Undeath was a downgrade. Nobody would willingly become Undead(huge point in Wrath with the cult of the Damned) if they had to constantly worry about rotting away. Before the Storm book changed all that and made undead completely pointless. Golden also decided that Forsaken were just normal people, just dead! When for 15 years they were cursed, ugly and unable to feel positive emotions. Most were either extremely depressed or just fueled by rage. Walking psychopaths that know they are not supposed to be the way they are but unable to really change it. Death Knights suffer all the same things but with an added curse that if they dont kill regularly they will lose their mind and go on a endless killing spree anyways but without choice.

    Old Lore Light burns away true death magic. The main players back then Ashbringer/Scarlet crusade/silver hand ect.... because they were the most effective cosmic force against it. Creating Calia shouldn't have been possible. They even doubled down on the Light burning undead in Revendreth which makes Calia existences even dumber. She also thinks she *Knows* what the Forsaken have gone through while being a cosmic paradox would make any normal Forsaken angry. She wasn't forced to kill her own family/people and unable to do anything while your soul is tied to your corpse damaged to the point that even in Death you are cursed and tossed into the Maw. (untill more retcons I suppose).
    Listen to this person!! Finally someone who gets it. Its neven been about "edgy", but consistency.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I agree that she isn't the right person to spearhead the Forsaken but equally I wasn't a fan of the Forsaken that made enemies of literally every living thing either with gruesome blights and stuff.

    I think there was some nobility to them in the Vanilla/TBC/Wrath era, back when they were a hardworking people determined not to be the monsters that others saw them as, discriminated against over something they had no control over. I liked the cooperation of Forsaken and Blood Elves in the Ghostlands for instance.

    There's a tragic melancholy to something bad happening to good people.

    Now they're just cruel and hateful and the only reason I see for them being part of the Horde still is due to gameplay reasons, they're so antithetical at this point.
    I agree with all of this. The Forsaken being good people but mistaken as monsters put in a rough situation is what made them so relatable. Living for vengeance against Arthas made sense because of what he did to them, and protecting themselves and being resentful of those who would destroy them also made sense, but the themes of just blighting everything and everyone really tipped it over any kind of reasonable emotional state even for them - at that point it's madness reserved for pure chaotic evil villains and the Horde is supposed to have some honor. Especially with the Forsaken ties to Tauren as being biewed as ancestors and spirits, and Blood Elves sharing the plight of the Scourge and Trolls also having these dark histories of cannibalism and trying to get over it and be noble again there always seemed to be more room for a forsaken that could embody that wise spirit of tragedy that works to overcome the past sins.

  15. #95
    Maybe them being “ruined” actually for the best. Trying to push Scourge into the Horde led us to BfA and subsequent fiasco of it all.

  16. #96
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Maybe them being “ruined” actually for the best. Trying to push Scourge into the Horde led us to BfA and subsequent fiasco of it all.
    Oh, won't you look at that, Forsaken are turning into another Lawful Stupid Good™ copycat. It isn't as if we don't have enough of those already in both Alliance and Horde, right?

    Sometimes variety is desirable, even if you don't like the particular variations. Btw, seeing Thrall and then Garrosh struggling to make Sylvanas comply with the Horde's overall goals was far more entertaining, and believable, than having the #1 troublesome race suddenly being turned into another bunch of Anduin drones just because Sylv was sooooo EvUuUuL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Lilian is not a real forsaken like all cata forsaken.
    Blizz had the joice to use real forsaken with the defeat of the Lich King and they made up those new retards instead to comply with 8 years old player. Culmination being Calia.
    Calia and Lilian are the same shit.
    While I don't like some of the framing on this, it is very true that both Calia and Lillian are not of the original forsaken. And the big issue here is that there are no relevant OF forsaken that even come close in terms of recognition.

    Lillian does align more with what the Forsaken are, but it's clear that the forsaken need to be something else by now in order to move forward, and if I am to be honest, Lillian and Calia as a duo would be actually a good pair.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Don't care for Calia, and I play alliance, she doesn't come across as very Hordy...
    I mean I get it, but she's at least a voice of compassion that isn't Baine. She seems like she'd actually stand up for herself.

  19. #99
    Blizzard's been ruining the theme of the game long before Calia even had a game model. Roll with it or find another mmo to get invested in is really all you can do.

  20. #100
    Forsaken were not rejected by anyone, especially Sylvanas.

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