Calia will ruin the forsaken

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh, won't you look at that, Forsaken are turning into another Lawful Stupid Good™ copycat. It isn't as if we don't have enough of those already in both Alliance and Horde, right?

Sometimes variety is desirable, even if you don't like the particular variations. Btw, seeing Thrall and then Garrosh struggling to make Sylvanas comply with the Horde's overall goals was far more entertaining, and believable, than having the #1 troublesome race suddenly being turned into another bunch of Anduin drones just because Sylv was sooooo EvUuUuL.

Dont be overdramatic. Its not the fault of forsaken fanbase or even, hell, an NPC faction. They just dont work in a narratice that Blizz pushes. Simple as that. After all they specifically defanged and reduced night elves into horde's punching bags to cram them into Alliance but allowed forsaken an unimaginable amount of "free roam" so to say.

Its not that they are bad, or wrong. Forsaken are a great concept , a fine race to have but they just dont fit into a "system" Blizz built. If the game as a whole was different forsaken would have being a great fit, but they arent.

[Arrashi]

Ideally, the setup they're going for is a reborn Desolate Council with Voss, Belmont, Derek, and Calia. Voss as the Desolate Council's voice on the Horde Council and central political leader, Belmont as spymaster, Derek as military head, and Calia handling the spiritual side of things to dovetail with her lack of interest in political leadership.

I don't think Blizzard would have greenlit an idea where the Forsaken are led by a council in the absence of an autocrat who built their entire cultural identity around her cult of personality only to throw that same idea away in the very book introducing it, only for the autocrat to abandon the Forsaken at the end of the ensuing expansion.

Replace Calia and Derek with Mudmug and Perry Gatner and you have deal. Those two seem much more qualified to lead forsaken than proudmoores.

[VladlTutushkin]

Hopefully Calia is here just for Lillian to cut her throat at some point.

Why would she? Lilian has very little reason to dislike Calia, no matter how much frothing at the mouth fanbase does.

[Nohara]

The Forsaken are all about melancholy and shadows.

So their pretty young race can’t develop over time? They have to be stuck being misserable Forsaken until the end of time?

[Makorus]

It was okay for the Forsaken of Lordaeron to be lead by an elf, but it's the worst thing in existence if they are lead by someone from Lordaeron?

[Combatbutler]

Calia is just a human with a skin condition and blizz intends to do this to the entirety of the forsaken it seems, robbing them of their identity, turning them into yet another utterly bland batch of humans.

It was okay for the Forsaken of Lordaeron to be lead by an elf, but it's the worst thing in existence if they are lead by someone from Lordaeron?

Calia represents everything the forsaken should not be, she literally acts like a living human, something undeath in general should make impossible.

[Lolites]

It was okay for the Forsaken of Lordaeron to be lead by an elf, but it's the worst thing in existence if they are lead by someone from Lordaeron?

no, but its worst thing if they are lead by someone who went through none of the shit they went through, who didnt give a fuck or try to help them for years until becoming undead herself, who is brother of the very man that killed and raised them (most of them), who have zero leadership experience, who is member of the opposite faction, one that rejected forsaken (yet seems to have no problem with calia for some reason) that they fought against for years...

she wants to help forsaken? sure, but lead them? no, thank you, she would be terrible choice

[Raisei]

Sometimes variety is desirable, even if you don't like the particular variations. Btw, seeing Thrall and then Garrosh struggling to make Sylvanas comply with the Horde's overall goals was far more entertaining, and believable, than having the #1 troublesome race suddenly being turned into another bunch of Anduin drones just because Sylv was sooooo EvUuUuL.

How was this believable? The only reason they did not wipe out the Forsaken alongside their leader was that Sylvanas has enough fanboys to demand her place in the Horde. They never fit in, they never felt like they belonged, never wanted to and in fact cheated their way in by deception. They had to massively dumb down all other races just so the Horde could have Scourge.

Take Garrosh. Sylvanas disobeyed his direct order by using the Blight on Gilneas. Garrosh normally would have executed her on the spot for this, he is not one that lets such an offense go. Hell, he had Vol'jin assassinated for questioning his authority. But here? Naah, it's all cool, do what you like, Sylvie. We didn't really need that land anyway, our desert is bountiful, you go ahead and blight every piece of land we conquer, okay?

And Thrall? I admit he is not as smart as Garrosh, but my gawwwd. Sylvanas spun a little story about being betrayed by Putress, batted her enormous eyebrows and immediatedly everyone believed her that during all the YEARS she was ruling the Undercity she had no clue about the Blight experiments.

There is a big difference between being "troublesome" and being outright lying to the faction you ostensibly belong to, while in truth working on killing every living thing on the planet. Basically the Horde had to be turned into Sylvanas-Drones, because if they had gotten too smart they might have seen the Forsaken for what they are and done something about it.

This is not "variety", it is bending and breaking characters to accomodate players who want to play evuuul zombies in a game that is not meant for this.

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ehm... didnt they join horde bcs they were rejected by alliance (where some of them still have relatives) ?

Not directly.

The Alliance simply took them as Scourge members and killed them on sight. Which is pretty realistic considering the Scourge was only barely over and the Forsaken were the exat same creatures (like in WC3 they literally have the exact same units) that ate the humans faces only month ago.
Would you ask a rotten zombie questions when it comes shambling up to your city or would you lob it's head off in case it was a left over from the horde that destroyed an entire Kingdom?

And before you think: "Awwww, those poor innocent souls, mistreated like that!" Remember that the Forsaken had already murderered Garithos and all his men at this point, betraying the deal they made with him. While the first was a bastard and surely deserved it, I cannot see how it is justified to murder his men (who hated him too).
Further remember that the only reason the Horde took them in is because they went crying to the Cows and made up a story of curing their condition, which they never had any intention of doing. They just needed a faction to hide behind so they wouldn't be wiped out.

[Makabreska]

Forsaken were not rejected by anyone, especially Sylvanas.

"You are all nothing!!!"

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Calia represents everything the forsaken should not be, she literally acts like a living human, something undeath in general should make impossible.

Granting them comfort in their shitty, painful state is wrong now? Why you wish them so badly?

[Raisei]

So their pretty young race can’t develop over time? They have to be stuck being misserable Forsaken until the end of time?

I have come to realize that progress and change of all kinds are bad for this fanbase. Hence why we can't leave the faction war behind us and are doomed to repeat it over and over and over with the same pointless result, because the (Horde-)Fanbase cannot live without it and everytime thinks that this is the one where they will finally win and destroy the Alliance for good.

[Muxtar]

Calia is a character that is as far from Forsaken as could be. She was never forsaken by anyone, she never suffered anything close to what the ordinary Forsaken suffers, much less than Sylvanas suffered. Just the idea of forcing so-called 'lightforged undead' in-game with this white-washed human girl in charge, instead of Forsaken many of us love and play for, makes me sick.

Blizzard completely f*cked up with Forsaken as faction and keep f*cking up even more. But it is no wonder, giving their writers' Alliance favoritism.

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"You are all nothing!!!"

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Granting them comfort in their shitty, painful state is wrong now? Why you wish them so badly?

Because it is not what we choose them for. If I want to play for comfortable race I'd pick human of gnome.

[geco]

I'd like to know the rationale people have for the "you wouldn't want Nathanos as king" excuse. You do realise Calia has a legitimate royal claim to being the leader of the people of Lordaeron right?

Alliance players not wanting Nathanos is completely and absolutely irrelevant because he doesn't have a claim to Stormwind at all. It isn't the gotcha moment you think it is.

Then all the Elves must follow Tyrande as she is their religious leader.

But still the Elves should follow the Zandalari because it is the original empire of the trolls.

[Muxtar]

I have come to realize that progress and change of all kinds are bad for this fanbase. Hence why we can't leave the faction war behind us and are doomed to repeat it over and over and over with the same pointless result, because the (Horde-)Fanbase cannot live without it and everytime thinks that this is the one where they will finally win and destroy the Alliance for good.

Leaving faction war behind and uniting under the banners of almighty and eternally rightful Alliance after 15 years of fighthing against them? Ok, go ahead. You'll find playerbase decreased to the size of Alliance playerbase total. A lot of people won't play World of WARcraft without WAR. Thanks god there are few studios with ex-Blizzard employees that will soon offer different and I hope better products to choose from.

[Combatbutler]

Granting them comfort in their shitty, painful state is wrong now? Why you wish them so badly?

Calia does not bring comfort, she dishes out platitudes that cannot change the nature of undeath. She talks about understanding of their suffering and how to overcome it, despite the fact that she never could her very nature is different, her emotions are not impeded, she is not in constant agony, not in a state of constant rage or other emotional trauma.

Trying to figure themselves out is fine and dandy but you have to use appropriate characters for it and Calia is as unsuited for the role as Anduin or any other living like being.

At the end of day Calia is basically 100% human and as such unfit to lead the forsaken

[Makabreska]

Because it is not what we choose them for. If I want to play for comfortable race I-d pick human of gnome.

That was 15y ago, story and characters move on. You would like Forsaken to be a stagnant, suffering race for all this time? And ye, Sylvi leadership worked out quite well for them, eh? I hear Lordaeron city is now a prime holiday destination. Not sure why a character that shows them compassion and actual help in their suffering (plus having a real claim to the throne) is now deemed a worst choice possible.

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Trying to figure themselves out is fine and dandy but you have to use appropriate characters for it and Calia is as unsuited for the role as Anduin or any other living like being.

At the end of day Calia is basically 100% human and as such unfit to lead the forsaken

She helped Derek, so the proof is there she can do it, regardless of her own experience (which is a moot point btw, you don't have to suffer major trauma yourself to be able to help others.) Meanwhile Syliv left them a plagued city and a huge "I'm dumb" hat on top of their heads.

[geco]

So their pretty young race can’t develop over time? They have to be stuck being misserable Forsaken until the end of time?

The races have to grow.
You don't have to come from outside and force them to grow.

If renegades now get better at Callia. It will not be that the race "grew" it will be that Calia put a leash on them and that is why they are better.

[Utrrabbit]

Ya and that's what makes it a lame fake undead.

So...she dies and is brought back as undead and it is fake. Great logic you have their.

[Muxtar]

That was 15y ago, story and characters move on. You would like Forsaken to be a stagnant, suffering race for all this time? And ye, Sylvi leadership worked out quite well for them, eh? I hear Lordaeron city is now a prime holiday destination. Not sure why a character that shows them compassion and actual help in their suffering (plus having a real claim to the throne) is now deemed a worst choice possible.

I want evolution, but I don't want Forsaken to become skinny humans in red - and it is what Calia will make them. Since WoW writers are Alliance biased, they just can't figure out nothing other than 'alliancification' for any other race they touch. That's why Horde is a laughtstock atm, and Forsaken especially, while Alliance and Anduin remain never-wrong white knights with eternal wisdom in their eyes.
And since Forsaken are not Lordaeron for like 15 years, then I don't give two f*cks for what second name Calia has and what claim she had to the kingdom long gone.

She helped Derek, so the proof is there she can do it, regardless of her own experience (which is a moot point, you don;t have to suffer major trauma yourself to be able to help others.) Meanwhile Syliv left them a plagues city and a huge "I'm dumb" hat on top of their heads.

Again, I couldn't care less for the help for some (un)dead Alliance dude she made. I don't give a f*ck about Derek - who he is to me as Horde player? Why it should be an example for fitness of Calia to top the Horde faction? Derek is Proudmoore - so she can go all the way to Boralus and contest with Jaina for its ruling for all I care.

[Raisei]

Calia is a character that is as far from Forsaken as could be. She was never forsaken by anyone, she never suffered anything close to what the ordinary Forsaken suffers

Except that she watched the brother turn into an evil monster, killing her father, all her friends and family, destroying her home. Then loosing her child and husband while fleeing the Scourge, who are most likely dead as well now.

Yeah, she hasn't suffered at all! Not a bit. Give me a friggin break.

The only difference between Calia and Sylvanas is that different from the Banshee, Calia did not allow her own suffering to break her and become just as bad (and worse) as the evil forces that destroyed her life. She remained good, helping people as a Priest of the Light instead of obsessing over vengeance and crying over how horrible fate was to her while using that as an excuse to murder innocents.

Let's be honest. You don't dislike Calia because she hasn't suffered like the Forsaken, because she has. You dislike her because she isn't edgy and evil and thus the Forsaken won't be allowed to be edgy and evil should she truely lead them.

[Muxtar]

So...she dies and is brought back as undead and it is fake. Great logic you have their.

Yep, it is fake. She brought back as Light-stuffed, and not though pain and horror and trauma.