Calia will ruin the forsaken

[Combatbutler]

She helped Derek, so the proof is there she can do it, regardless of her own experience (which is a moot point btw, you don't have to suffer major trauma yourself to be able to help others.) Meanwhile Syliv left them a plagued city and a huge "I'm dumb" hat on top of their heads.

Of course she helped him because blizz is pushing a braindead narrative, that Derek exists in the first place is utterly moronic and what has sylvanas to do with anything? There are other forsaken npcs that would be better suited to lead the forsaken or lay out their future.

Calia is not forsaken, is not resurrected through necromancy, is not impeded as they are. She is an outsider, a bland human cardboard box

[Makabreska]

Yep, it is fake. She brought back as Light-stuffed, and not though pain and horror and trauma.

I mean, cool. That's your opinion that these thing are necessary to be a Forsaken. But Blizz decided to disagree and move them away from all that crappy teen angst.

[Muxtar]

Except that she watched the brother turn into an evil monster, killing her father, all her friends and family, destroying her home. Then loosing her child and husband while fleeing the Scourge, who are most likely dead as well now.

Yeah, she hasn't suffered at all! Not a bit. Give me a friggin break.

Remind me, did she suffer all of this while being undead? No? Then you can throw these arguments as far as Stormwind canals.

The only difference between Calia and Sylvanas is that different from the Banshee, Calia did not allow her own suffering to break her and become just as bad (and worse) as the evil forces that destroyed her life. She remained good, helping people as a Priest of the Light instead of obsessing over vengeance and crying over how horrible fate was to her while using that as an excuse to murder innocents.

Let's be honest. You don't dislike Calia because she hasn't suffered like the Forsaken, because she has. You dislike her because she isn't edgy and evil and thus the Forsaken won't be allowed to be edgy and evil should she truely lead them.

Again - if I wanted to play for 'good' race, I'd choose humans. Forsaken never were good and never needed to be good. Your white-washing of everything will ruin this game even more than it is currently.
I played Forsaken since 2005, and I don't give two f*cks about opinions of players who never played them and never shared their (twisted as it is) culture, but feel free to point us how to behave and what puppet follow.

[Makabreska]

And since Forsaken are not Lordaeron for like 15 years, then I don't give two f*cks for what second name Calia has and what claim she had to the kingdom long gone.

15y in real time is not 15y in WoW. Also, please, I saw so many Horde defenders saying that Forsaken have all the claim to Lordaeron, because they are it's citizens.

[Muxtar]

I mean, cool. That's your opinion that these thing are necessary to be a Forsaken. But Blizz decided to disagree and move them away from all that crappy teen angst.

Yep, and we'll see when it will bring them in the end. Especially when alternative studios with people with true Blizzard spirit appear and soon will bring out thei games.

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15y in real time is not 15y in WoW. Also, please, I saw so many Horde defenders saying that Forsaken have all the claim to Lordaeron, because they are it's citizens.

Well, I am not one of that players. So this is not about me.

[Makabreska]

Of course she helped him because blizz is pushing a braindead narrative, that Derek exists in the first place is utterly moronic and what has sylvanas to do with anything? There are other forsaken npcs that would be better suited to lead the forsaken or lay out their future.

Calia is not forsaken, is not resurrected through necromancy, is not impeded as they are. She is an outsider, a bland human cardboard box

And Syliv is a goddamn High Elf, yet she lead Horde np. Also you omit the fact that Calia is their brethren and rightful ruler.

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Yep, and we'll see when it will bring them in the end. Especially when alternative studios with people with true Blizzard spirit appear and soon will bring out thei games.

Please remind me which number studio is that now? There has been so many ex Blizz employees trying and failing in the past 20y, hard to remember them all.

[Combatbutler]

And Syliv is a goddamn High Elf, yet she lead Horde np. Also you omit the fact that Calia is their brethren and rightful ruler.

The screecher has closer ties to the forsaken than calia can ever hope to achieve, because like them she was made through the suffering and how much it fucked her up to become the monstrosity that she is, Sylvanas and the many vile forsaken represent necromantic undead nature, calia does not. Since she can't possibly comprehend their very nature.

Forsaken are defined through suffering and their mental damage. Calia has neither.

So again any forsaken is better than Calia, this is not about sylvanas she is gone and hopefully dies, this is about a race that by their very nature are borderline psychopaths and how they move forward in a believable manner.

[Raisei]

Leaving faction war behind and uniting under the banners of almighty and eternally rightful Alliance after 15 years of fighthing against them? Ok, go ahead. You'll find playerbase decreased to the size of Alliance playerbase total. A lot of people won't play World of WARcraft without WAR. Thanks god there are few studios with ex-Blizzard employees that will soon offer different and I hope better products to choose from.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

15 years of war (and even then we had many peaceful times as allies) is NOTHING. France and England have been in a literal Hundred Years' War and still they get along now. These things happen.

As for the Hordies abandoning the game. *Shrug* . At least we can then explore different stories without those guys holding us back and forcing the Devs to accomodate their childish need for Alliance blood. If they can't accept change happening after 15 years of the same, then it is probably for the best if they leave.

And hey, they can always go and play Classic. No evil changes threatening them there!

[Makabreska]

So again any forsaken is better than Calia, this is not about sylvanas she is gone and hopefully dies, this is about a race that by their very nature are borderline psychopaths and how they move forward in a believable manner.

Maybe having in your faction a race full of borderline psychopaths is bad for group cohesion and story progression? Maybe it's time to stabilize them? You want Wrathgate\Darkshore to happen every now and then? Thrall, who never experienced demonic bloodlust (and wasn't burdened by the trauma), led Orcs quite well all those years. Sometimes an outside perspective is superior.

[Combatbutler]

Maybe having in your faction a race full of borderline psychopaths is bad for the story progression? You want Wrathgate to happen every now and then?

Such is their nature it just means it could happen, not that it has to.

Thrall, who never experienced demonic bloodlust, led Orcs quite well all those years.

He did not, which is why garrosh happened

[Makabreska]

Such is their nature it just means it could happen, not that it has to.

And then Horde players keep crying and asking why Horde is being presented as villains all the time.

He did not, which is why garrosh happened

Ye, it shown pretty well how far worse Horde could do w/o Thrall.

[Lolites]

Granting them comfort in their shitty, painful state is wrong now? Why you wish them so badly?

her leading forsaken is like milionaire coming to homeles people, telling them he knows exactly how they feel bcs he only get 5 milions inheritance from his parents and starts lecturing them about being homeles

[Raisei]

Remind me, did she suffer all of this while being undead? No? Then you can throw these arguments as far as Stormwind canals.

Sooo, because she wasn't undead then means she hasn't suffered? Humans can't suffer loss and tragedy if they aren't undead? I am astounded by this logic.

Again - if I wanted to play for 'good' race, I'd choose humans. Forsaken never were good and never needed to be good. Your white-washing of everything will ruin this game even more than it is currently.
I played Forsaken since 2005, and I don't give two f*cks about opinions of players who never played them and never shared their (twisted as it is) culture, but feel free to point us how to behave and what puppet follow.

As I pointed out before: This game is not meant to accomodate an evil race. The Forsaken were a mistake, made only so people like you can play "evuuul". None of the main plots make sense when the Player Character isn't on the good side of the spectrum.

Would a mighty Artifact weapon be given to a sociopath that enjoys killing the living? No.
Would Magni and Azeroth choose a mass murderer as their champion? No.
Would the Kirian work with a monster that kills for amusement? No. Neither would the Venthyr or Night Fae and even the Necrolords have a strict code of conduct.

Your evil Forsaken does not fit into the game's plot. No matter how much you fantasize about cutting Jaina's throat instead of saving her from Torghast it is never going to happen.

[Combatbutler]

And then Horde players keep crying and asking why Horde keeps being presented as villains all the time.

Who the fuck cares, I want decent stories, turning the races into a homogeneous pitiful blob is not good storytelling, they all become interchangeable and as such meaningless

Ye, it shown pretty well how far worse Horde could do w/o Thrall.

If he had acknowledged the very nature of his people and changed his policy accordingly, changing their culture slowly things might not have turned out so abyssal. Change takes time a concept blizz does not understand if you hit them in the head with it.

Thralls policy literally laid the groundwork for Garrosh warmongering.

[Lolites]

She helped Derek

who, exactly like Calia, was never rejected and shunned by his own people or family, and didnt suffer for YEARS like forsaken...
for him it was dying in war, raised, tortured a bit and getting back to his family...

[omeomorfismo]

Most of the downsides of calia you mention are also applicable to sylvanas.

Lilian is a neat character i would like to see more of though she does not seem like a leader and statesman.

After 15+ years the forsaken theme of being forsaken has gotten boring and stale, especially after blizzard mishandled them for the past few expansions.
Forsaken still have very little connection to the rest of the horde and its supposed themes of brotherhood and honor.

thats the theme of the forsaken to being the fucking assholes in an ally of convenience....
stale my ass

[VinceVega]

It's not about the Horde, it's specifically about the Forsaken. She didn't suffer like them.

I'm an Alliance player through and through and even I know she doesn't fit.

Wait didn't Sylvannas raise forsaken herself? That is where the whole "bitch" fiasco came from. Also all the other people elves and whatnot.
I don't think you can say anymore the forsaken are only people who got killed by Arthas.

[Lolites]

I mean, cool. That's your opinion that these thing are necessary to be a Forsaken. But Blizz decided to disagree and move them away from all that crappy teen angst.

you should open dictionary and look up the word "forsaken"... bcs yeah, in order to be forsaken you need to be ...wait for it... FORSAKEN
she never was abandoned, she is the one who ABANDONED her people for years until she herself ended up being undead... or why wasnt she pleading for help for them at stormwind court to Varian who was helped by lordaeronians when orcs burned down sw? she didnt give a fuck about them before...

[Makabreska]

who, exactly like Calia, was never rejected and shunned by his own people or family, and didnt suffer for YEARS like forsaken...
for him it was dying in war, raised, tortured a bit and getting back to his family...

And, once again, you don't have to suffer to be able to understand and help others. Also, her brother killed their father, she saw her kingdom getting fucked by undead, she lost her husband and kids. That counts for nothing?

[omeomorfismo]

Sooo, because she wasn't undead then means she hasn't suffered? Humans can't suffer loss and tragedy if they aren't undead? I am astounded by this logic.



As I pointed out before: This game is not meant to accomodate an evil race. The Forsaken were a mistake, made only so people like you can play "evuuul". None of the main plots make sense when the Player Character isn't on the good side of the spectrum.

Would a mighty Artifact weapon be given to a sociopath that enjoys killing the living? No.
Would Magni and Azeroth choose a mass murderer as their champion? No.
Would the Kirian work with a monster that kills for amusement? No. Neither would the Venthyr or Night Fae and even the Necrolords have a strict code of conduct.

Your evil Forsaken does not fit into the game's plot. No matter how much you fantasize about cutting Jaina's throat instead of saving her from Torghast it is never going to happen.

so ignore the forsaken in the story? isnt like that the game is completely ignoring the undeads since the last forsaken exp zone of cata...
they call you living even playing a dk...
at least dont destroy a fucking rp