Calia will ruin the forsaken

[Soon-TM]

it de jure belongs to Calia.

The Menethil dynasty came to an end when Arthas killed Terenas. Considering that Calia cannot and effectively will not sire a proper heir, her claim to the throne would be deemed invalid in most medieval (i.e. absolute and hereditary) monarchies. Sylvanas had at least the victor's right on her side.

[Lolites]

What's that supposed to mean? If you think Blizzard is going to follow political standards of the middle ages then you're wrong. Especially in this day and age.

well was any of the human kingdoms in Warcraft ruled by woman?
Kultiras is (although technicaly they have lord admiral and not king so im not sure if thats heraditary"), and i think thats it...
and tbh even there Jaina makes no sense as ruler although not bcs she is woman

[Xilurm]

well was any of the human kingdoms in Warcraft ruled by woman?
Kultiras is (although technicaly they have lord admiral and not king so im not sure if thats heraditary"), and i think thats it...
and tbh even there Jaina makes no sense as ruler although not bcs she is woman

Yeah and they can just change it. And if someone complains you know what happens.

[Lolites]

Yeah and they can just change it. And if someone complains you know what happens.

im not saying it cant happen, just said that stating its her by right is a bit of a stretch given we dont know anything about the laws of lordaeron, and the fact that the kingdom pretty much doesnt exist anymore

im sure if blizz want to they hamfist her in as they did with jaina and other characters

[Xilurm]

im not saying it cant happen, just said that stating its her by right is a bit of a stretch given we dont know anything about the laws of lordaeron, and the fact that the kingdom pretty much doesnt exist anymore

im sure if blizz want to they hamfist her in as they did with jaina and other characters

Well I sure don't like how Jaina became the new Lord Admiral. If my daughter helped some savage aliens kill my wife/her mother then I sure as hell wouldn't let her back into my kingdom let alone make her the ruler.

[Thage]

I'd also prefer Voss and/or Belmont as Forsaken leader(s), they at least are proper Forsaken - unlike Mrs. Big Tits, who was ham-fisted into Forsaken lore just because writers can't give pause to their shilling towards Anduin and his BFFs. I mean, what better choice to rule over the sentient zombies than Jaina's sister-in-law?

Ideally, the setup they're going for is a reborn Desolate Council with Voss, Belmont, Derek, and Calia. Voss as the Desolate Council's voice on the Horde Council and central political leader, Belmont as spymaster, Derek as military head, and Calia handling the spiritual side of things to dovetail with her lack of interest in political leadership.

I don't think Blizzard would have greenlit an idea where the Forsaken are led by a council in the absence of an autocrat who built their entire cultural identity around her cult of personality only to throw that same idea away in the very book introducing it, only for the autocrat to abandon the Forsaken at the end of the ensuing expansion.

[Lolites]

Well I sure don't like how Jaina became the new Lord Admiral. If my daughter helped some savage aliens kill my wife/her mother then I sure as hell wouldn't let her back into my kingdom let alone make her the ruler.

yeah, but she was sad about it!

and i get her family might forgive her, but people? "hey remember that woman thats resposnible for death of our king, and a lot of our people including your cousin and couple of your friends? well, shes our queen now"
in their place, i would fucking rebel its utterly ridiculous

[Dimmak]

Calia makes sense canonically but I can see why people push back. Here's the thing though the forsaken are a diminished people. They have not been reproducing and repopulating. Heck without valkyr I am not sure you can get more undead, the exception being Deathknights.

With the helm of domination currently broken, Sylvannis is not needed to psychically shield the people from the Lich King. Remeber thats how she is giving them their freedom. And that's why for most undead she had their loyalty. Perhapa that loyalty was even forced. Perhaps.

In any even the Forsaken may move to a split faction or a neutral one. With the light forge and those who want to go home being welcomed into the Alliance.

It also might be a slow gradual move away from split horde and alliance factions as it just doesn't make sense to keep them as is. I struggle with most Tauren, and druids, and specs that are light based to stick with the horde after Garrosh and Sylvannis. Their actions are antithical to a lot of the horde.

But time will tell. But my money is that she is there to open up an allied race.

[Omedon]

It recently occurred to me in a speculative epiphany that Calia could be a bridge to Arthas ruling over Lordaeron as he was destined to.

Either way, de-villainizing the forsaken has been an important step toward a modernly palatable WoW, and whether it's Calia or Arthas that does it, I'm all for it!

[Razion]

She was described as basically being in-tact when raised, and since Forsaken now have a 'fresh' option, she can probably be adapted to that kind of style now so she looks more appropriately as a "lightbound undead".

But anyway, to me it seems she has more an interest in-game of helping others besides the Forsaken like the Alliance and Night Elf undead... so maybe her purpose is actually to be on the Alliance as an emissary for new undead over there in general. If her helping the Forsaken wasn't just an off-shoot not-very-important note in her story, it would have been in-game. It makes her helping the Forsaken seem like a side story, something supplemental and not really the core of what she's going to be doing going forward. As some people have thought, it may be complicated if she ever marries into the Alliance, as it takes away any legitimacy for the Forsaken to have claim to their ancestral lands as members of the Horde (reinforcing that one faction continent thing that was painted in BFA). Ultimately this could be used by the Alliance to pull the Forsaken away from the Horde, which is probably reinforced now by Sylvanas basically being an outcast and labeled a traitor - regardless of how that turns out later. While I think the notion of a Light Lady for the Forsaken was cool on paper, in practice it has started to feel more and more unnatural. She's too kind a leader for the Forsaken in the first place. The Forsaken have always worked towards a new world order, and while they've been displaced from their homes and treated as monsters since time immemorial, it hasn't really been their vibe since before Wrath to be all sad about it (even if that kind of melancholic angle of Forsaken is one I like more).

Also as others have pointed out, Calia hasn't really suffered what the Forsaken have. She wasn't forced to like, eat her friends and family. But I feel like even if she literally did that as a show of solidarity, to swear her allegiance or something, it would be hard for them to make that seem like a genuine show of dedication from her and for it be reciprocated by players seeing the event. There isn't much else 'more Forsaken' than cannibalism that I can even think of that would allow her to prove herself beyond breaking her lightbound shackles and being a proper Forsaken.

At the end of the day Voss just still seems more appropriate for the position because she seems to be the most genuinely Forsaken for Forsaken.

[Kiri]

yeah, but she was sad about it!

and i get her family might forgive her, but people? "hey remember that woman thats resposnible for death of our king, and a lot of our people including your cousin and couple of your friends? well, shes our queen now"
in their place, i would fucking rebel its utterly ridiculous

I mean, people aren't all that simple. They hated her when she returned as the one that stood aside, yes, but that is mostly because they were told that it had happened that way. If they were properly told that her father had gone off the rails, I think many would have revised that opinion. Since, well, at the end of the day he had chosen to chase down said foes and led his men to their deaths (many in the storms they weathered just trying to follow). They still might not exactly like Jaina, but it takes a lot, and I mean a real lot, to get people to risk their lives and rebel against a ruler.

Plus, let us not forget that it wasn't just "Jaina was sad about it". She did, despite being easily powerful enough to overpower anyone present, take her mother's judgment and death sentence, accepting it. She did allow herself to be thrown into Thros which is considered one of the worst punishments the Kul Tirans have to offer and did not begrudge them for it one bit, instead bringing the fleet back and helping them greatly in the war.
All of that might not completely make up for the standing aside issue for many, but most probably do acknowledge that she is at least loyal to her nation, willing to stake her life on it and an immense asset to the nation. Trying to go and overthrow her because of old grievances - especially when she is in the process of fighting those who are more responsible for these deaths by that point - just seems kind of silly.

[Raisei]

Sylvanas founded the forsaken and made them strong. Calia is just an alliance character in disguise who knows nothing about the forsaken.

Sylvanas enslaved them to use them as her shield against death. Her own words. She did not give a crap about them otherwise.

[Utrrabbit]

Because Slyvannas was more then just looking "good". She was the one that saved the Forsaken and made them what they are. With out her they would have been mindless zombies. If they really wanted Calia to take over for Slyvannas then they needed to set her up way more and drop the fake light undead thing.

Fake light undead thing? Really. That is the dumbest thing I heard a person utter.

She died and than was raised to be undead. The only difference is that it was not a plague but a naaru that did it. That is it.

Saying shes not fit to lead due to the way she was raised is stupid. She is LITERALLY the queen of lordaeron.

[Hugnomo]

Don't know if I commented on this thread yet, but completely disagree. I love Calia and I love the potential development she can bring to the forsaken. I think she's a character that's rich with interesting elements, like her royal blood/history of her family and lordaeronian royalty, and her mysterious undeath with its connection to the light and her potential role in a future introduction of the light in the cosmic war. I also like her personality traits, she's motherly and loving, driven to be helpful to her cursed countrymen. Some people hate that goody two shoes type of character, that's fine, but we have plenty of purely evil characters, we can have a well intentioned one (that is still flawed like Calia, that was naive and got herself killed). I think that the forsaken as a people deserve someone who genuinely cares for them, who wants to help them and protect them, after being betrayed by their leader, who had once been their savior and who they worshipped blindly, and who only saw them as "arrows in her quiver", as meat shields to be used and disposed of.
I hope Shadowlands, being a death expansion, brings answers to the plight of the forsaken, and brings some solution to their accursed state, like how they can't reproduce and therefore are condemned to eventually die out, or the mental turmoil that they are afflicted with. I hope Calia and Voss play a role in that. I hope they figure out a way to cleanse Lordaeron, and rebuild it as their capital city.

[Beet]

99% of the forsaken are former humans, you would think someone not representative of the majority of the Forsaken wouldn't be good enough.

- - - Updated - - -



Wouldn't make sense because he's not human and he's an enemy of the Alliance. The comparison isn't a good one sadly.

lol but he’s as much human as Calia is forsaken. You can’t be intellectually honest here and pretend the two are massively different. He’s a fully kept together preserved human that’s dead. Imagine he betrayed Sylvanas to save Anduin and now gets a place in Stormwind as a leader. It would be a problem not just thematically but for the actual story.

[Hugnomo]

It recently occurred to me in a speculative epiphany that Calia could be a bridge to Arthas ruling over Lordaeron as he was destined to.

Either way, de-villainizing the forsaken has been an important step toward a modernly palatable WoW, and whether it's Calia or Arthas that does it, I'm all for it!

I'm rooting for Calia, but I agree with the overall sentiment!

[Kithelle]

Most of the downsides of calia you mention are also applicable to sylvanas.

Lilian is a neat character i would like to see more of though she does not seem like a leader and statesman.

After 15+ years the forsaken theme of being forsaken has gotten boring and stale, especially after blizzard mishandled them for the past few expansions.
Forsaken still have very little connection to the rest of the horde and its supposed themes of brotherhood and honor.

^ this

Sylvanas hasn't decayed at all, she hasn't suffered the downsides of Undeath, in fact it's quite the opposite...she seems to get a little more lively as each expansion passes.

[RCA]

lol I couldn't help myself the forsaken are...

[Tarba]

Lilian is not a real forsaken like all cata forsaken.
Blizz had the joice to use real forsaken with the defeat of the Lich King and they made up those new retards instead to comply with 8 years old player. Culmination being Calia.
Calia and Lilian are the same shit.

[Kithelle]

point taken, havent leveled undead in ages dont realy remember that... do we know how she died?

still, raised into undead by necromantic power, so except being controled by LK, pretty much the same as other forsaken (and exactly the same as NEW forsaken), while Calia have fuck all in common with both old and new forsaken

Calia kinda had to die in order to be raised as a Undead? That's kinda a very common trait all Undead share. None of them probably wanted to die and I doubt none of them probably wanted to be raised into Undead, including Calia. Sylvanas used them as pawns...at least Calia cares about them, many of them her own people.