Last edited by omeomorfismo; 2021-01-25 at 03:45 PM.
12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings
No need to ignore them. But they can't be evil. Simple as that. The PC is of the same moral alignment as the Desolate Council folks.
And you are free to play your RP as you wish, I am just saying it is never gonna be canon and thus it isn't something that should be defended as if it was canon.
lilian what? she was never a forsaken, she was consripted as an horde "assassin" like garona
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bullshit, hillsbrad quest is canon, the conquest of gilneas is canon, every single forsaken zone is canon. like everytime a npc call me a living. the game its a fucking mess, they could simply mantain that instead of murdering their characterization of the forsaken
Last edited by omeomorfismo; 2021-01-25 at 03:42 PM.
12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings
She wasn't a warrior then and still isn't a fighter. She was just a princess. Sylvanas was Ranger-General, so she better be fighting.
Also, Sylvanas has never cared much about her fellow elves, thus it is very doubtful that killing them impacted her as much as loosing her familiy and her child did Calia.
Her soldiers were just tools to her and her sisters weren't in Silvermoon when it happened. Note how she not once wanted revenge for Silvermoon, that was Kael's thing. She wanted revenge for herself and her suffering, she did not give a crap about the others.
Sylvanas chose to throw everyone and everything under the bus if it got her her revenge, if you consider that a good way of handling her personal tragedy, then I doubt we will ever agree.
Also, what sacrifice and self-destruction are you talking about? She wasn't even there when WE beat Arthas. A fact she very clearly states and bemoans in Edge of Night.
This is such desperate nonsense and Calia posters are as irreparable as they are disingenuous in the sense that not one of those pushing that point give one fuck about Calia except as a proxy to shit on Sylvanas and the Forsaken. Let's not bother comparing Sylvanas and Calia besides the end, let's compare Calia and a generic Lordaeronian citizen, let's call him Bob.
1. Bob and Calia both lost their family and livelihood to Arthas. Arthas was her brother and Terenas her father, whereas they were nobodies to Bob. Edge, Calia.
2. Calia went off with a footman and escaped unscathed for a refuge in Southshore for ten years. Bob either got killed by zombies and raised as an undead slave, also ran off to Southshore and got melted by Forsaken some years later or joined the Scarlet Crusade and got killed by anyone else. Edge, Bob.
3. Calia spent the intervening years getting railed by footmen. Bob spent the intervening years in a constant struggle for survival against his former kin, be they undead or living for his land. Edge, Bob.
4. After bailing from Southshore, Calia was cared for personally by the greatest human holy priest in a secure enclosed community. After bailing from Southshore, Bob became mulch for ghouls in the Sludge Fields, and/or had to fight for his life in the Alliance army, and/or was pursued by human holy priests to burn his soul in a pyre. Edge, Bob.
5. After deciding to try and bridge the human/undead divide, Calia was greeted warmly by everyone she ever met who wasn't evil, be they living or dead. If Bob were a Desolate Council member, he'd have been killed, if Bob were a regular Forsaken, he'd never have had the chance. If Bob were either human or Forsaken he'd struggle to overcome the loss of their loved ones and their existence as undead and the bad blood that he directly suffered at the hands of the other party. Edge, Bob.
6. When Calia died, she was raised into an immaculate being with the benefits of both undead and living and none of the weaknesses, embraced by the Light. When Bob died, he became a corpse or alternatively was enslaved by Arthas or alternatively kept his free will but had most of his positive feelings and his physique deteriorate to a parody of themselves. Edge, Bob.
7. Upon being pursued by Sylvanas, Calia spent time in a comfortable cottage for two years with her main squeeze and her human buddies. When Bob was pursued by Sylvanas, he expired. Edge, Bob.
Overall count:
Calia: 1
Bob: 5
Winner: Bob
Now add to Bob's trevails being forced to kill the people you were responsible for and Arthas's personal attention in your torture, having your free will returned to you only to have even the people you died in the defense of tell you to go fuck yourself and your suicide pivot you directly to hell. Sylvanas cared so little about her land and troops that she died for them and everyone involved in it mentions that without her there wouldn't be survivors in the first place, from Bob to the rangers. And even when upon being raised the then blood elves told her to go kill herself, she still did everything in her power to get them into the Horde. She found some sad zombies in a sewer and turned them into the preeminent power in Lordaeron within a couple years. But she was mean about it and ended up fucking them over at the absolute tail end, so it doesn't count and the woman who did nothing for their entire existence as a political entity should lead instead.
Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-01-25 at 04:08 PM.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
You just raging because your edgy waifu got ousted finally. Get over it or get out.
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I usually like to engage in discussions with you but on this topic... Yeah. It dosent count. She was mean. Piss off.
The sooner sylvanas is a washed away stain in history the better. Calia, Voss, it just dosent matter anymore. Simply put - there has to be a good, long rebuilding of everything to make WoW at least playable again.
Last edited by VladlTutushkin; 2021-01-25 at 04:12 PM.
Calia is one of those topics where there's really no way to muster any kind of merit-based argument in her favor. The only respectable pro-Calia position is the honest one, which is by people who don't like the Forsaken and think what she represents, retcon or not, is preferable and would be something they enjoy playing. Hell, even the people who push Calia to spite Sylvanas fans at least represent an honest emotional position, given how hated Sylvanas is in those circles. But clothing it in anything past that falls apart under the loosest inspection. She has no further virtues, be it if you assess her as a storytelling tool or as an in-story candidate for leadership. I don't mind people who're honest on that, that's fine, I've very similar views when it comes to the Wrath-era orc retcons for example, it's the disingenuousness of these positions that annoy me.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
Because as i said before - Forsaken are narrative dead end. If they keep doing their usual "crazy torturer/blight nazi" jig they should die. Die as a race i mean. Horde has no reason to back up their madness anymore and their "big figure" aka Sylvanas is gone and actually gone in a way that makes them extra-fucked in the end. So they have to either QUICKLY tone down their omnicidal tendencies or face extinction. But of course narratively they cant die out so they have to somehow find a way to become more stable and less mass murdering.
And they need a representative that everybody else will just... you know, see as good. Calia is a perfect PR face fallen to forsaken hands, their last hope, frankly speaking. Not because of how good of a ruler she is but because of how she will shield them from any kind of scrutiny or Alliance lashing out.
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They "liked" her for the same reason north koreans like their dictators. Propaganda. Hatemongering. Cleaver use of unlimited control and cult of personality.
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Your loss then.
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Shouldnt have happened, as i said. But since things went this far... They now scramble to "fix" them. You know, forsaken will not be even the third race to suffer that. Worgen and night elves say "hy". But at least you were not pummeled and fucked up by an enemy faction before your "rebranding".
Because of single cinematic? Judging by the amount of the forum threads such as this, I don't think any of the Forsaken players stopped caring for their Banshee Queen. Hence Blizz didn't use her as a free loot pinata yet.
Also, ask yourself why Blizzard never released the % of the players who sided with Sylvanas. The first quest in the game with "the choice" and they didn't even show any stats for fun? I think the fact that majority of players took her side, while originally writers had other intentions for her, might play some role in it.
Last edited by Ethas; 2021-01-25 at 04:48 PM.