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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    Blizzard will always fix issues based on the majority. The majority of WoW are casuals, that's a fact. Wf/TF isn't casual friendly, also a fact as WF/TF mostly benefits players who are able to grind M+ all day and are able to clear LFR/Norm/Heroic/Mythic every week for a higher chance at that drop.
    With that said, the whiners are always going to be the majority on the forums because everyone who likes something has no reason to go to the forums. For every one person ssaying "WF/TF is good" were 100 people complaining drowning it out.
    It's not coming back
    If they are always catering to casuals, why is the game as casual unfriendly as it has ever been except maybe Cata?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Because most people in WoW don't like/play pvp at all? Have you not noticed that WoW is PvE game with PvP elements, not the other way around? Ever read these or official forums? Anything?
    There are official cash prize tournaments for PvP and have been for a very long time. The developers are literally supporting it as a major content mode.

    I mean, it can definitely be a side game to many or even most players. But the idea WoW is purely a "PvE game" is silly.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    No. Fuck no.

    Warforging fucking sucked, it made drops feel shit when they didn't upgrade and you should never feel bad about getting an item.

    The problem with the current loot situation is that droprates for PvE content are just too low.
    They need to either buff droprates slightly, or my preferred solution which would be to reimplement valor/heroism/justice badges.


    Do people just want everyone to be full BiS in 3 weeks of farming content?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ayako View Post
    Do people just want everyone to be full BiS in 3 weeks of farming content?
    The problem is that BiS is incredibly far out of the reach for 99% of players, making the gear climb feel like an incredibly bland grind very quickly.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #105
    It's clear they want gear to go out slower. You have easy ways to get at least 3-6 pieces of 226 gear in your Vault every week, that's a pretty high chance to get a BiS piece every week, going down as you fill up your slots.

  6. #106
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The loot system now is atrocious. WF/TF was terrible but the loot drought we're in right now is even worse.
    WF/TF does not address this, though. The problem isn't that I can't get an upgraded version of something I own, it's that loot is too scarce and at least at the ~197-207 range, it's too bunched up.

    The latter problem is significant as you start to really gear beyond N CN or so. For example, I have some M0 pieces. But I also have some honor gear that's fully upgraded to 197 and covenant gear that's also at 197. Now look at the list at https://www.wowhead.com/news=317979/...on-reward-redu

    You don't get 207 or better until M10. That means for all of the slots I have at 197, I'm not getting significant upgrades for anything less than that. Sure, WF/TF would help this but what would have been better would be loot that was designed with a holistic viewpoint. It's apparent that teams did this independently. Otherwise why would you trash the incentive to do lower keys by letting people get a full covenant set and upgrade it easily? Or by letting people PVP for honor gear and upgrade it that far?

    The problem is that M+ has too many levels which means that M+ rewards are static in item level for several keystone levels. From M6 I get 197 and I have to get to M10 before I'm above 200. Why is that?

    Presumably it is because if they gave even 3 item levels per keystone level, the gear at 15 would be silly powerful. The solution would have been to compress the keystone levels so what is 15 now becomes 10 and there's real jumps in difficult for each level from 2 to 10. In that case, the new M10 would be as hard as a 15, but you'd get there in 10 levels and could then have steps at each key level.
    Last edited by clevin; 2021-01-25 at 06:53 PM.

  7. #107
    I wouldn't mind WF/TF for WQ items, but that's it, leave the rest as it's.

  8. #108
    Loot is in a good spot now, the only thing they need to do is compress item levels in heroic and mythic raids a bit. Heroic should start at 216 or something with Denathrius and Generals at 220. Mythic at 226 with Denathrius at 230. PVP is already in a great spot. Bringing back Valor to buy or upgrade a specific M+ or Raid piece every few weeks would be nice I guess.

  9. #109
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    no fuck warforging

    let gear be gear ffs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If they are always catering to casuals, why is the game as casual unfriendly as it has ever been except maybe Cata?
    This game is FAR more casual friendly than it was in Legion and BFA. What are you on about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The problem is that BiS is incredibly far out of the reach for 99% of players, making the gear climb feel like an incredibly bland grind very quickly.
    Not really? Gives people a reason to continue playing, and it also makes the top dogs feel more...top dogish. WF/TF makes everyone a "special snowflake", and the people that play the game casually will either feel VERY left behind Ilvl wise, or feel unrewarded when a WQ gives them normal Eternal Palace gear, or some shit. It's 2 opposite ends of dumb, with no good middle ground to be found.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    There are official cash prize tournaments for PvP and have been for a very long time. The developers are literally supporting it as a major content mode.

    I mean, it can definitely be a side game to many or even most players. But the idea WoW is purely a "PvE game" is silly.
    As I said - with PvP elements. That automatically excludes pure pve
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #111
    Stood in the Fire Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The only group content that gets you 220+ gear is M+14 and mythic raids.
    and pvp****

    So, wait, you mean to tell me that the HARDER content offers HIGHER ilvl to offset the difficulty? Who would have that it would work that way... Weirdchamp.

  12. #112
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaqar View Post
    Am I the only person who actually likes this concept? And by no means was it implemented succesfully.
    Because the ilvl got way to high thanks to titanforging..
    I also miss the days of reforging but for some lame reason(s) we can't have that back..
    Nah WF/TF should stay gone. What they should bring back is Valor Points or something similar and allow you to upgrade gear by either 5 or 10 ilvl - 1 to 2 upgrades

  13. #113
    Stood in the Fire Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    As I said - with PvP elements. That automatically excludes pure pve
    Yeah "with pvp elements". You know that element that literally turned wow into a competitive game? That element that paved the way for the MDI? That element that paved the way for what the race to world first is today...

    yeah... that.

    Also, take a look at how many of the best Raider and M+ players also play high rated pvp.

    Its not that PVP takes a back seat in wow. Its the fact that the competitive scene in general takes a back seat due to the vast amount of casuals... The people whining about gear droughts. The vocal majority.

    The game went from having a pvp tourney realm that sent a few teams from each region to blizzcon once a year... to having several events through out the year for both competitive pvp and pve.

    Its a really good thing.

    BFA ruined and spoiled you. Dont worry, bud, youll get your gear. You might not have it all week 2 or even month 2, but if you keep at it, youll have BIS for your difficulty level before next patch. I promise you. Bookmark this.

    And when you finally get that big upgrade youve been waiting on. Remember that feeling. Compare to how you never even got that feeling in BFA because upgrades were literally laid at your feet every 5 mins in that game. oh, except that they werent upgrades because they didnt have X trait or X corruption or didnt WF/TF with a socket.
    Last edited by Recovery; 2021-01-25 at 07:21 PM.

  14. #114
    Nope, because people then feel the need to run everything every week to get the WF/TF BiS and also insert fake reason here to support the latter.
    Also people don't like it when other people get loot, so here we are in an expansion where noone gets loot and everything is ok. Loot feels alot more rewarding, or you paid a hefty sum for it, in which case it feels alot more rewarding because you had a bunch of gold.

    Reforging was killed by by constant hit cap math, but I do wish it would return also to make some of this crappier mastery loot better.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    I wouldn't mind WF/TF for WQ items, but that's it, leave the rest as it's.
    So you want the easiest loot in the game to be boosted even higher than it already is, but not for people doing actually challenging content?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Ya know, theres a progression system for the agony you're apparently feeling. Its called moving on to mythic. Why would your guild do heroic only for an entire patch?

    Thank god blizz doesnt make decisions based off of the positions that select few players put themselves into and chose to remain in.
    My guild had no mythic aspirations. We were a smaller, more tight knit family style guild and rarely could even muster the 20 to do mythic, even if we wanted to. Many of us were not interested in the harshness and stress that mythic raiding is.

    Why can't there be a system of progressive rewards on the forms of content we choose to play in?

  17. #117
    Here's what I like... Items can drop at either 0/2, 1/2, or 2/2 upgraded. There is a vendor that allows players to spend ~valor points~ to upgrade items. This means that a 1/2 or 2/2 upgrade reduces the grind to max out your gear. I think there was a system like this during HFC, and I really liked it.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombercloner View Post
    Here's what I like... Items can drop at either 0/2, 1/2, or 2/2 upgraded. There is a vendor that allows players to spend ~valor points~ to upgrade items. This means that a 1/2 or 2/2 upgrade reduces the grind to max out your gear. I think there was a system like this during HFC, and I really liked it.
    This makes 2/2 the expectation from players and tuning.

    Why add a currency grind to just make every single item up to its expected value?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by ayako View Post
    It's clear they want gear to go out slower. You have easy ways to get at least 3-6 pieces of 226 gear in your Vault every week, that's a pretty high chance to get a BiS piece every week, going down as you fill up your slots.
    Unlocking 3 pieces of 226 is not easy and it is time consuming.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The problem is that BiS is incredibly far out of the reach for 99% of players, making the gear climb feel like an incredibly bland grind very quickly.

    This is good for the game, it gives people reason to get better.



    Only thing I'd argue is that you should be able to upgrade M+ items to 220 for a +15 and 226 for a +20

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