This loot system has to go.

[Gorsameth]

You came on a hardcore WoW forum and expected sympathy. Trust me there is none here as the games population tanks and their Twitch numbers crater through the floor. It is pretty obvious what the big issue with Shadowlands is but you have these guys obsessed with their Classic vision of WoW in 2021 completely forgetting why people actually liked Classic.

You are not going to see any of this remotely addressed until 9.1 just liked BFA was allowed to rot until they bothered to even remotely address the complaints in 8.1 but by then the games population was dead.

The numbers DO NOT LIE. Mythic plus is effectively dead. The most popular feature that Blizzard has created in 4 years they killed in 4 weeks. Preach made a video using the RaiderIO numbers that prove what everyone already knew.

When everyone stops touching it the moment it stops being the most effective thing its was never popular to begin with.

just because people do it, doesn't mean its popular.

[Argorwal]

You came on a hardcore WoW forum and expected sympathy. Trust me there is none here as the games population tanks and their Twitch numbers crater through the floor. It is pretty obvious what the big issue with Shadowlands is but you have these guys obsessed with their Classic vision of WoW in 2021 completely forgetting why people actually liked Classic.

You are not going to see any of this remotely addressed until 9.1 just liked BFA was allowed to rot until they bothered to even remotely address the complaints in 8.1 but by then the games population was dead.

The numbers DO NOT LIE. Mythic plus is effectively dead. The most popular feature that Blizzard has created in 4 years they killed in 4 weeks. Preach made a video using the RaiderIO numbers that prove what everyone already knew.

Players flock to what is rewarding.

That used to be mythic+ in Legion and BFA and now it’s PvP which has seen massive participation increases.

That’s how a game based on gear progression works.

[Tang0]

And if you subbed back you can replace them with 197. Did you even know how to get geared. Tbh, blizzard isn't to blame. This is probably a reading comprehension issue.

Totally agree with you on that one. As in - you can't read. I can sub and get 197 gear now? Cool, I can also sub in 9.2 and get 230 catchup gear.

I said about loot problems from doing relevant content a month into the expansion. You told me about current welfare gear. Guess that's your area of expertise, but it's not relevant in every situation.

[dispatchcrab]

Totally agree with you on that one. As in - you can't read. I can sub and get 197 gear now? Cool, I can also sub in 9.2 and get 230 catchup gear.

I said about loot problems from doing relevant content a month into the expansion. You told me about current welfare gear. Guess that's your area of expertise, but it's not relevant in every situation.

Someone needs a nap

[Orwell7]

I hope Blizzard realizes FINALLY that players of WoW are not a 1:1 projection of real life. There are not the same number of leaders/doers/thinkers/etc. as in real life.

The player base of WoW is mostly homogenous. They/we all want power upgrades. This is the main driving factor. Nothing else. Not story, not aesthetics/transmogs, pet battles, you name it.
We all want to be as powerful as possible. If the easiest route to this is PvP, then we PvP. If it's raiding, then we raid.

This simplifies A FREAKIN LOT in the equation.
Blizzard. Just make WoW a game for WoW players, and not the general population. If you try to balance AND rework classes between patches, fluctuate the meta, maybe even tweak racials... then we will reroll, race change gladly.
If you even make cross-faction party a possibility, you would get millions in revenue just by players switching to alliance.

You decide. 2021 is all about money. Do the thing that makes you profit. Cater to the masses, introduce huuuge gold sinks where people buy tokens or whatever.
Just fix this.

[dispatchcrab]

I hope Blizzard realizes FINALLY that players of WoW are not a 1:1 projection of real life. There are not the same number of leaders/doers/thinkers/etc. as in real life.

The player base of WoW is mostly homogenous. They/we all want power upgrades. This is the main driving factor. Nothing else. Not story, not aesthetics/transmogs, pet battles, you name it.
We all want to be as powerful as possible. If the easiest route to this is PvP, then we PvP. If it's raiding, then we raid.

This simplifies A FREAKIN LOT in the equation.
Blizzard. Just make WoW a game for WoW players, and not the general population. If you try to balance AND rework classes between patches, fluctuate the meta, maybe even tweak racials... then we will reroll, race change gladly.
If you even make cross-faction party a possibility, you would get millions in revenue just by players switching to alliance.

You decide. 2021 is all about money. Do the thing that makes you profit. Cater to the masses, introduce huuuge gold sinks where people buy tokens or whatever.
Just fix this.

Whats your source on what players want?

[Ellia]

For the first time ever, I feel like I am playing my toon and not getting powerful every few weeks.

I already know what the responses are going to be to this. I have run every M0 and did multiple keystones and have cleared CN mulitple times on 3 toons.

2 of my toons STILL have 2-3 dungeon blues that I can't seem to replace. I've continued to farm M0's, LFR, etc. The great vault has been a joke.

Blizzard has swung the pendulum too far. With less loot dropping, the horrendous personal loot system for guilds, and no control of gear, my characters have been stuck for weeks. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.

Apparently Ion recognized this but clearly doesn't have a plan in place to address this. I doubt we get anything until 9.3, which, once again, is too late.

I don't know any game worth playing that doesn't feel rewarding.

/rantover

What? I'm 200 ilvl after 4 days of doing M+ pushing up to a few 10s, I haven't even touched PvP yet (the best source of gearing) nor have I gone into HC Nathria, I fully expect to be 205 ilvl by next week

[Wilfire]

This loot system is the result of people listening to "community figures" like Preach and Asmongold.

With titanforging and bountiful loot drops, you would reach +-90% of your best possible gear relatively quick and then slowly work towards BiS with diminishing returns, with full BiS being mostly unobtainable. Gear was not gating progression.

With the new system, you are actively gated by gear from progressing. Try clearing a 15+ in 207 14+ gear. I dare you. See how well it goes.

In a game with quaternary progression resets, gear should never feel slow to acquire nor should a lack of gear prevent you from progressing.

[Gorsameth]

This loot system is the result of people listening to "community figures" like Preach and Asmongold.

With titanforging and bountiful loot drops, you would reach +-90% of your best possible gear relatively quick and then slowly work towards BiS with diminishing returns, with full BiS being mostly unobtainable. Gear was not gating progression.

With the new system, you are actively gated by gear from progressing. Try clearing a 15+ in 207 14+ gear. I dare you. See how well it goes.

In a game with quaternary progression resets, gear should never feel slow to acquire nor should a lack of gear prevent you from progressing.

Sorry but I have never, and will never, listen to asmongold, preach or any other community figure and this gear model is for the most part exactly what I want (4/20 items in raid and PvP gear being less deterministic as changes)

The biggest "this is shit" moment for TF was when we first started progressing in Mythic Uldir after a few weeks into the expansion and we proceeded to d/e almost all the loot from the first few bosses because we all had better thanks to TF.

I quit near the end of that tier because of it.

[Wilfire]

Sorry but I have never, and will never, listen to asmongold, preach or any other community figure and this gear model is for the most part exactly what I want (4/20 items in raid and PvP gear being less deterministic as changes)

The biggest "this is shit" moment for TF was when we first started progressing in Mythic Uldir after a few weeks into the expansion and we proceeded to d/e almost all the loot from the first few bosses because we all had better thanks to TF.

I quit near the end of that tier because of it.

The problem is you then. Despite all the mythic raiders constantly clamoring that they play for the "challenge", they are surprisingly gear-obsessed. Just come to terms with the fact that the reason you want BiS gear and don't want others to have good gear is so that you can look down on them and stomp them in random BGs.

[Gorsameth]

The problem is you then. Despite all the mythic raiders constantly clamoring that they play for the "challenge", they are surprisingly gear-obsessed. Just come to terms with the fact that the reason you want BiS gear and don't want others to have good gear is so that you can look down on them and stomp them in random BGs.

yep, you figured me out, I just want to look down on people. that's why I play in a HC guild, have barely set foot in a M+ this expansion and basically play the game raid logging.

[huth]

False... wq item level sales with your covenant renown.

No, it's correct. It scales with your iLvl. It is capped based on your Renown.

[Alvito]

I have really enjoyed picking stygia from the weekly vault for the last 3 weeks. The game seems to think all I want or need is rings and back pieces. In my gf raid 4 people haven't picked up a piece of loot from full raid clears this month. This system sucks.

[dispatchcrab]

I have really enjoyed picking stygia from the weekly vault for the last 3 weeks. The game seems to think all I want or need is rings and back pieces. In my gf raid 4 people haven't picked up a piece of loot from full raid clears this month. This system sucks.

Quit then I will be happy to see you go

[Marrilaife]

Why do people want WoW to be a second job?

Vast majority of people who want this are people who either have no job or unsatisfactory menial 9-5 job and sinking excessive amounts of time into WOW is their only strategy to feel better than other people, so they want time sank to be the defining factor who is a "good player".

It's the same situation in many pvp-oriented Asian MMOs with uncapped levelling where the guy who is online 24/7 and maybe even buys xp boosters from the cash shop can roflstomp you in world pvp because he's higher level. Or people who buy p2w packs in mobile games so their character / team can always win over f2p plebs. It's "I have no skill but this 1 other resource, how can I turn it into an illusion I'm more skilled than others?" It's why wow pvp with "templates" failed because people didn't want a fair battle, they wanted to outgear their opponents.

Legion / BFA with its endless grinds for AP, leggos, essences, benthic gear, corruptions, you name it was an endless fiesta of "haves" lording over "have nots", worst part was some of these like legion leggos were luck based originally so you needed both luck and excessive amount of time sank. Guilds broke apart, people burnt out, shit was real. People lost raid spots over "you aren't grinding as much as the others so you're dragging the team down". Worst part is people tend to dismiss these grinds because all they remember is after 3 patches the grind was finally lessened and made casual-friendly and that's the only version that stays in people's heads.

- - - Updated - - -

Quit then I will be happy to see you go

"Quit if you don't like it" is sadly the only way to make devs get their heads out of the asses, the only time they "fix" anything is when they see tragic drop in subs. On the other hand, so far every expansion saw a sharp drop of subs after initial months of excitement and trumpeted success so if I were you I wouldn't be so happy to see people quit left and right...

[arkanon]

The problem is you then. Despite all the mythic raiders constantly clamoring that they play for the "challenge", they are surprisingly gear-obsessed. Just come to terms with the fact that the reason you want BiS gear and don't want others to have good gear is so that you can look down on them and stomp them in random BGs.

I have never seen or heard a mythic raider say this. Where are you seeing them say this? Do you have some links? I mean you say it's all of them, and make it sound extremely common to see this claim, can you back it up at all? Or is this just your go-to strawman?

Secondly, mythic raid gear isn't what you use to "stomp" ppl in a bg.

[Master Guns]

Or, you have been lucky in comparison to other people.

This is the biggest problem right now. People with good luck believe that everything is fine, and refuse to accept that those with bad luck are starved for gear.

"bad luck" is just that - bad luck. That's a bad luck problem, not a system problem. I don't know ANYONE that I play with, and I play with a LOT of people, who have had any issues getting over 200 ilvl by now, I just don't. I'm in a heroic raiding guild, know lots of people. 5+ RL friends who all play too, we're all 205-213. I'm actually on the LOW end. It isn't hard, dude. Just get out there and play and stop running LFR/M0's. Run some keys boo, high keys. All my friends who actually play more than me, as I said I play VERY CASUALLY, they're all getting into their high teens in the 200's. Just. Play.

[kevincuomo]

Item Levels in this Xpac are TERRIBLE. Raiding heroic feels not fun and the only thing you need to do is PVP. M+ feels like trash.. its all bad. I am already bored and tons of my friends have quit already, mostly melee because melee is junk in M+ due to affix's.

Blizzard needs someone with a brain to start making good decisions.

[Kallisto]

A PvE player does not have to do PVP, you have not once given an argument to why they 'HAVE' too

They don't.

You just have people on this forum that have basically said that if they can't be super BiS within the first few weeks they might as well uninstall because they can't force their epeen on people.

This is the wow community. They don't care about anything apart from making the plebs know their place while they dream of being the next limit/Echo recruit (even though they have as much chance as the southern redneck Republican voter who thinks they're not poor but temporarily embarrassed billionaires who are just one week away from becoming the next Elon)

[Sansnom]

I have never seen or heard a mythic raider say this. Where are you seeing them say this? Do you have some links? I mean you say it's all of them, and make it sound extremely common to see this claim, can you back it up at all? Or is this just your go-to strawman?

Maybe not directly, maybe not mythic raiders specifically but in this forum at least, there has been arguments about people acquiring raid gear or close to equivalent gear outside of raids.

There has been complaints about LFR dropping gear, WF, TF etc. So there is certainly one portion of players that are more interested in what they are getting and what others are getting.