1. #1

    Suggestion: Don't tell people to PM Mods if you're just going to ignore them.

    As the title says I don't know why that's what the suggested course of action for questions about moderation is, as I had legitimate questions/grievances last week that I messaged a sub-forum moderator and then a global about. Both of them ignored me. So if there's a mod that would actually like to talk to me please step forward either in this thread or a PM, I'd love to have a conversation. But otherwise don't tell people to waste their time by PMing Globals that don't respond to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  2. #2
    I think the decision is dependent upon whether a person has anything of substance to say, such as to whether or not there's a point to be made.

    I'm reminded of a Star Trek movie when Spock tried to engage an argument with the ranking admiral. Familiar with circuitous logic, the admiral wasn't going to have any of it and ordered him, "Get out."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I think the decision is dependent upon whether a person has anything of substance to say, such as to whether or not there's a point to be made.

    I'm reminded of a Star Trek movie when Spock tried to engage an argument with the ranking admiral. Familiar with circuitous logic, the admiral wasn't going to have any of it and ordered him, "Get out."
    Hey, if the mods want to tell me I'm wrong whatever then I lose the appeal but until they say "Get Out" it's a really bad look to say nothing at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  4. #4
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    I would have to imagine many reasons why you did not get a reply. Some of them may shock us:


    1. Mod/Admin does not see it in time (logs off, doesn't log back on immediately or for days after)
    2. Mod/Admin inboxes potentially flooded with the same kind of messages, so maybe yours has not been gotten to

    3. Mod/Admin thinks the PM (if a complaint) and does not warrant a response... in the past I've sent PM's to 1 specific Admin and 1 specific Mod and I've gotten snarky, passive aggressive replies summed up as "your view/perspective is wrong, don't waste time messaging" and one saying "until enough Report Posts are made, can't do anything" ...as much as I would like to link the messages (because I still have them saved) the Admins/Mods protect their own even if they are in the wrong and it will be swiftly deleted (as I have gotten PMs from a mod saying "I went into your post and removed ________ because it's not good" when that post was criticizing certain mod's behavior, like spending more time posting in random threads rather than moderating)

    4. Different Mods/Admins have different interpretations of what is considered bad/against the rules, and I think this is the main problem altogether.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2021-01-27 at 04:22 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I would have to imagine many reasons why you did not get a reply. Some of them may shock us:


    1. Mod/Admin does not see it in time (logs off, doesn't log back on immediately)
    2. Mod/Admin inboxes potentially flooded with the same kind of messages, so maybe yours has not been gotten to
    3. Mod/Admin thinks the PM (if a complaint) and does not warrant a response... in the past I've sent PM's to 1 specific Admin and 1 specific Mod and I've gotten snarky, passive aggressive replies summed up as "your view/perspective is wrong, don't waste time messaging" and one saying "until enough Report Posts are made, can't do anything"
    4. Different Mods/Admins have different interpretations of what is considered bad/against the rules, and I think this is the main problem altogether,
    1: I messaged them several days ago, I gave them time for a response before making this thread which I see as my last resort.
    2: If that's the case they can let me know if there's someone less busy or if they have an ETA that'd be nice.
    3: That's just piss poor "customer" service and yes, they make money off of us by having our eyeballs see this webpages ads. So pissing people off and driving traffic down is bad for business if done on mass.
    4: This is why I PM'd the global, I was slapped with multiple infractions the later of which I think are highly questionable and are deserving of review by a neutral party and that's all I ask for, is a review. Even if the outcome isn't what I want I think every poster that runs into a similar situation should be heard and treated fairly by the mod team. Snarky replies or completely ignoring it ain't that.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  6. #6
    The Patient Rokom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpleton View Post
    3: That's just piss poor "customer" service and yes, they make money off of us by having our eyeballs see this webpages ads. So pissing people off and driving traffic down is bad for business if done on mass.
    While the site owners/admins make ad money, all the mods are here for free.

  7. #7
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Some tips from an ex-mod who's got some understanding of what goes on behind the scenes;
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpleton View Post
    1: I messaged them several days ago, I gave them time for a response before making this thread which I see as my last resort.
    2: If that's the case they can let me know if there's someone less busy or if they have an ETA that'd be nice.
    Mods, even global mods, are volunteers. They may simply not be around for a few days at a time. If an issue is time-critical (yours isn't, we're talking like porn being posted in threads), look to see who's online before PMing. Or hit every global.

    3: That's just piss poor "customer" service and yes, they make money off of us by having our eyeballs see this webpages ads. So pissing people off and driving traffic down is bad for business if done on mass.
    Again, volunteers. This site doesn't make anywhere close to enough money for paid full-time 24/7 moderation.

    4: This is why I PM'd the global, I was slapped with multiple infractions the later of which I think are highly questionable and are deserving of review by a neutral party and that's all I ask for, is a review. Even if the outcome isn't what I want I think every poster that runs into a similar situation should be heard and treated fairly by the mod team. Snarky replies or completely ignoring it ain't that.
    There's an infraction appeal process. You should get some notification from the mod; when I got this kind of PM, I'd create a ban appeal thread for them (users don't have access to that forum unless, of course, you're banned), copy-paste your complaint in rather than paraphrase it, and them PM the user that I'd done so. The process involves a mod vote on whether the infraction(s) should stay or be removed/amended, which often takes a day or three for enough mods to weigh in, and then you'll get a PM as to the resolution. You won't get any further information about who voted what way or why, nor will you likely get any further explanation of the infraction(s) other than reaffirming the original justification; the process isn't a debate or discussion with the mod team.

    If you're rude or abusive in your PM, then this process could easily get ignored with cause. Not saying you did, just saying I've seen it happen. But otherwise, that's the process. Or at least, was my entire time as a mod.

    If it's been a few days and you've had no response, try politely PMing someone else on the global mod team. It may just be you PMed someone who's not going to be around for a while. Mods take vacations and such, after all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's an infraction appeal process. You should get some notification from the mod; when I got this kind of PM, I'd create a ban appeal thread for them (users don't have access to that forum unless, of course, you're banned), copy-paste your complaint in rather than paraphrase it, and them PM the user that I'd done so. The process involves a mod vote on whether the infraction(s) should stay or be removed/amended, which often takes a day or three for enough mods to weigh in, and then you'll get a PM as to the resolution. You won't get any further information about who voted what way or why, nor will you likely get any further explanation of the infraction(s) other than reaffirming the original justification; the process isn't a debate or discussion with the mod team.

    If you're rude or abusive in your PM, then this process could easily get ignored with cause. Not saying you did, just saying I've seen it happen. But otherwise, that's the process. Or at least, was my entire time as a mod.

    If it's been a few days and you've had no response, try politely PMing someone else on the global mod team. It may just be you PMed someone who's not going to be around for a while. Mods take vacations and such, after all.
    Thanks for these tips. I think this should be a bit more public/obvious as to what they want users to do if the current system isn't working (which it appears not to be). A ban appeal thread would be nice, but since I'm not banned nor trying to be banned as you said I don't have access to that sub-forum. It's been about a week now since the first infraction so again I think a reasonable amount of time in which to expect a reply has gone by. I wasn't rude or abusive at all in my PM's either, I explained the case from my POV and simply asked for explanations/rationale behind the decisions. I didn't want to spam out every global with the same thing but if it works it works I guess. I only messaged one global who I saw online. Unless I got unlucky and that was their last login before a vacation then it seems that I am being ignored. Regardless this thread is still here, so I'll reiterate what I said in my OP if there's a global who sees this who would like to chat, then PM me. Otherwise I can wait a bit for this thread to die and do as Endus suggests and message them all. As you all might have guessed I plan on being very persistent.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  9. #9
    At the very least there should be some kind of automatic response that a moderator has read the PM. That way we're not sitting here for days at a time wondering if the mod has even looked at the message.


    Also, a message stating the results of an infraction appeal that would be appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    At the very least there should be some kind of automatic response that a moderator has read the PM. That way we're not sitting here for days at a time wondering if the mod has even looked at the message.
    I assume you are referring to just a regular PM? If so when you send a PM to someone at the bottom (under text box) and above the submit button are 5 options and the top one says "Request a read receipt for this message". You can check that and have a better chance at getting "an automatic" response back. Though the other person could always reject it I believe, but that might be an option if you aren't using it.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    I would suggest messaging a different Mod if you're having issues getting a response

    If no mod responds: you're the issue

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    I would suggest messaging a different Mod if you're having issues getting a response

    If no mod responds: you're the issue
    No, if no mod responds, they're the issue. If someone breaks into your house, and you call the cops, and the cop that answers says "Well, them's the breaks", do you just shrug your shoulders and move on? No, you find a copy who does something about it. Same thing here. If these people are going to wear the hat, then they need to do the job.

    Of course, they don't even know the difference between flaming and trolling, so what hope is there, really...
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I assume you are referring to just a regular PM? If so when you send a PM to someone at the bottom (under text box) and above the submit button are 5 options and the top one says "Request a read receipt for this message". You can check that and have a better chance at getting "an automatic" response back. Though the other person could always reject it I believe, but that might be an option if you aren't using it.
    That's helpful...but it should be automatic when it comes to PM's to mods. No rejection applicable for mods.

    Also, what about getting an official response regarding infraction appeal rulings?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post

    No, if no mod responds, they're the issue. If someone breaks into your house, and you call the cops, and the cop that answers says "Well, them's the breaks", do you just shrug your shoulders and move on? No, you find a copy who does something about it. Same thing here. If these people are going to wear the hat, then they need to do the job.
    On this I agree.

    On the one hand they say "We just don't have enough mods" and on the other they say "the applications we get for mods don't meet our standards".

    Well, I suggest that they either require the mods they have to step up to the standards...or give people the chance, on a probationary basis, to become "junior mods" with limited authority.

    Of course, they don't even know the difference between flaming and trolling, so what hope is there, really...
    I don't know if there really needs to be a distinction between the two. Even in a perfect system you wouldn't get very far with "I wasn't flaming...I was trolling" or vice versa. I'm less concerned about the label they put on the infraction then I am with the lackluster appeal process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  14. #14
    You're a guest in someone's home. Think about it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You're a guest in someone's home. Think about it.
    And the homeowner put up a suggestion box and made it available to the guests. Think about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    And the homeowner put up a suggestion box and made it available to the guests. Think about it.
    And you're complaining... When you get no response, what do you imagine you can do about it?
    Last edited by Shadowferal; 2021-02-11 at 03:40 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And you're complaining... When you get no response, what do you imagine you can do about it?
    I don't imagine I can do anything about it.

    It's a suggestion forum. I'm making suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    We're gonna Godwin so much you might even get tired of Godwinning

  18. #18
    Some of you people are awfully needed. These are just folks trying to keep things civil as volentueers. Sure some are power tripping, others are lazy, but most are just doing the normal shuffle they signed up for. It really isn't that serious. An infection here isn't going on your credit score, sending you to prison, and if you aren't banned then what's really the harm. It's a point system with time decay and some mythical gone to far point that is REALLY far. As long as you aren't constantly getting infractions then it is pretty meaningless man. If you are constantly getting them then you are the problem. Trust me I know. I have been on all sides of the ship and can tell you that a few meaningless ones might slip in from time to time but if you are getting banned you are slipping. If you aren't getting banned? Well, no real harm. Just keep it chill and you will be fine.

  19. #19
    Over half the forum sections dont even have mods anymore. They dont even close spam threads like this -

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53032381 - self promoting which is against the rules and had his thread up for over a week now

    Seems like this site is on deaths door honestly. I wouldnt take it personally.
    Last edited by RobertoCarlos; 2021-02-23 at 01:00 AM.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Twoddle's Avatar
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    What's the point of the report button if you have to make the effort to PM a mod anyway. Why not make the report button auto PM a mod?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Over half the forum sections dont even have mods anymore. They dont even close spam threads like this -

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53032381 - self promoting which is against the rules and had his thread up for over a week now

    Seems like this site is on deaths door honestly. I wouldnt take it personally.
    memes are staying up too:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53032179

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