View Poll Results: Should they be labeled as a terrorist organization?

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  • No [I'm Conservative]

    8 13.33%
  • Yes [I'm Liberal]

    33 55.00%
  • Yes [I'm Conservative]

    2 3.33%
  • No [I'm Liberal]

    17 28.33%
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  1. #201
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    So, building a gallows, carrying a gun, and storming the capitol looking for Mike Pence, while shouting Hang Mike Pence, doesn't show intent? Jesus Christ, simp for terrorists more.
    Beyond a reasonable doubt without a confession? No it doesn't. I would say the same if it had been Antifa that had done it.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Beyond a reasonable doubt without a confession? No it doesn't. I would say the same if it had been Antifa that had done it.
    “We broke into the Capitol…we got inside, we did our part. We were looking for Nancy to shoot her in the friggin’ brain but we didn’t find her.” — Dawn Bancroft, arrested in Pennsylvania today, along with Diana Santos-Smith.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Of course not I believe local laws should be enforced.
    So you’re advocating for the government to be the only ones who can decide what speech is censored. Weird stance.

  4. #204
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    “We broke into the Capitol…we got inside, we did our part. We were looking for Nancy to shoot her in the friggin’ brain but we didn’t find her.” — Dawn Bancroft, arrested in Pennsylvania today, along with Diana Santos-Smith.
    Post event confession of intent, no issue with him being charged accordingly.

  5. #205
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Intent has no bearing?
    When it comes to threats of violence or death and their legality, the concept of "intent" is in relation to the issuance of the threat, not intent to act upon that threat.

    You might have absolutely no capacity to execute that threat, because you're sitting in a basement 2000 miles away from your victim. But if you lead your victim to reasonably believe you're watching them and able to act on that threat, that is what makes it criminally actionable. And your intent is only considered in relation to your choice to send those threatening messages, not your capacity to act. That is only measured in determining whether the target would have reasonable grounds to feel the threat was legitimate, so it has nothing to do with your actual capacity or intent to act, solely the target's reasonable beliefs to that effect.


  6. #206
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    When it comes to threats of violence or death and their legality, the concept of "intent" is in relation to the issuance of the threat, not intent to act upon that threat.

    You might have absolutely no capacity to execute that threat, because you're sitting in a basement 2000 miles away from your victim. But if you lead your victim to reasonably believe you're watching them and able to act on that threat, that is what makes it criminally actionable. And your intent is only considered in relation to your choice to send those threatening messages, not your capacity to act. That is only measured in determining whether the target would have reasonable grounds to feel the threat was legitimate, so it has nothing to do with your actual capacity or intent to act, solely the target's reasonable beliefs to that effect.
    What defines a reasonable belief?

  7. #207
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    What defines a reasonable belief?
    You can't possibly be serious.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/reasonable-belief/

    Basic legal definitions, guy.


  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You can't possibly be serious.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/reasonable-belief/

    Basic legal definitions, guy.
    You've just found another person that likes to be an armchair lawyer without knowing what they're arguing for. It's great, isn't it?

  9. #209
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You can't possibly be serious.

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/reasonable-belief/

    Basic legal definitions, guy.
    Which clearly says it is subjective, thus open to interpretation.

    Oh, and you should check the legal definition of a threat, it does require intent to cause fear.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Which clearly says it is subjective, thus open to interpretation.

    Oh, and you should check the legal definition of a threat, it does require intent to cause fear.
    Wrong. All it requires is communicating an intent to cause harm or loss.

  11. #211
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Which clearly says it is subjective, thus open to interpretation.
    A great deal of law is subjective. That doesn't mean it's just whatever you want it to be. You're misusing words, at this point.

    The entire concept of a jury system exists because the law is largely subjective in nature. Were it objective, a jury would be anathema, as they would not have the requisite knowledge to interpret the law properly.

    Oh, and you should check the legal definition of a threat, it does require intent to cause fear.
    That's literally what I said. Intent to communicate that message, not intent to carry out the threat. As long as we move the goalposts from "fear" to just "harm or loss", as Vegas82 said; fear's not a legal expectation.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-01-30 at 01:52 AM.


  12. #212
    The nazi's do have moonbases!

  13. #213
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist74 View Post
    The nazi's do have moonbases!
    I was going to say it’s good to see Udo Kier still get work... but, this is from 2012...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Which clearly says it is subjective, thus open to interpretation.

    Oh, and you should check the legal definition of a threat, it does require intent to cause fear.
    It's subjective in the sense that reasonable belief is what a neutral third person with average intelligence would be reasonably judged to believe. Ie. YOUR point of view or even the victim's actual point of view doesn't tell the full story. If the judge says an average guy could have reasonably believed it, there is reasonable belief. Or, as others have said, the judge's assessment of the situation gets replaced with a jury acting out the "reasonable third person point of view", ie. if they think there's reasonable belief, there's reasonable belief.

    I'm basing this on the notion that the victim will always say "I totally believed it", otherwise there wouldn't be a court trial. And unfortunately, you can't just trust the victim to be truthful. There's whole legal debates about this very question, it's rather interesting actually, if you have the taste for legal details.

    Interesting edge case: I threaten someone to SMITE THEM WITH LIGHTNING! He might be a dimwit and totally believe me, but I'd probably be able to make a good case that nobody in their right mind would have believed me and get away without punishment. Unless I knew he was dimwitted, and that's where you have to adjust the "reasonable belief" somewhat. Oh, you could argue back and forth for hours over thingis like this. :P
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-01-30 at 02:26 AM.
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  15. #215
    QAnon is much as a organization as is Antifa is. However, the former nearly started the second civil war and possibly lit a torch needed for WW3. QAnon is a mess of conspiracy theorists coming together along with support from the GOP and foreign governments. I consider it an organization even if it has multiple leaders

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PresidentGreymane View Post
    I'm thinking a competent DoJ could roll up Qanon pretty quickly.

    No shortage of people to flip.



    Eric "T" from 725 5th Ave, New York, would also like to speak to nice FBI lady.
    When was this posted? Is this talking about Trump at the time or currently of Biden??
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  16. #216
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    It depends on if Terrorist is a state of mind or a specific action.

    Is believing that the world is ruled by a cabal of pedo's who worship demons a thing that should be penalized? It has a very red scare vibe. This comes off as "One is not allowed to impugn the integrity of the elite or institutions and doing anything that could cause doubt in them is a serious problem". More over you could say "Well I don't favor the State doing it" is kind of a preposterous technicality. In an oligarchical structure, where ALL SPACES are privatized the distinction is one without a reasonable difference.

    So no, and I'd go further that the "Call it terrorism!" sounds like magic word thinking, akin to the insistence that certain terrorism be called "Islamic Terrorism!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    QAnon is much as a organization as is Antifa is. However, the former nearly started the second civil war and possibly lit a torch needed for WW3. QAnon is a mess of conspiracy theorists coming together along with support from the GOP and foreign governments. I consider it an organization even if it has multiple leaders

    - - - Updated - - -



    When was this posted? Is this talking about Trump at the time or currently of Biden??
    Except we kinda know who the leader of Q is, and there isn't one for Antifa.

    And the post is about Trump, not Biden. Because he said at the time of his arrest, he went there because Trump said to.

  18. #218
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Except we kinda know who the leader of Q is, and there isn't one for Antifa.

    And the post is about Trump, not Biden. Because he said at the time of his arrest, he went there because Trump said to.
    Who is the leader of Q? The shaman guy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Who is the leader of Q? The shaman guy?
    No, that Ron Watkins and his father or son, whatever. They are the owners of the website.

  20. #220
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Who is the leader of Q? The shaman guy?
    It’s the Watkins... it’s been known for quite a while... the guys shooting uncensored porn for Japan out of Philippines...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    No, that Ron Watkins and his father or son, whatever. They are the owners of the website.
    I posted saying as much more than a year ago. It was rumored, since all signs pointed to them... but, after the election, it’s pretty much confirmed. Q stopped posting and CodeMonkeyz posted a new project will be announced soon.

    Edit: There was a rich guy that had a game every year that was similar to what Watkins did, but just amongst his friends. Some of them got killed during the last game, which is how it ended. There is a rabbit hole video about it... I’ll edit once I find it.

    Edit 2: it’s not a further down rabbit hole video, just checked them all... while searching for... ‘rich people game dead’... probably got me on some lists, but not what I was looking for... I’ll try to explain, but there have been a bunch of movies using similar concept.

    There once was a rich guy, that every year created real life espionage games. He would hire people to act as federal agents, there would be plants in crowds and cryptic message sent. Every year it would get more and more elaborate, because the dude was just getting wealthier. Until one year, where during being stranded in the desert, after being dropped off by fake FBI, a dude either almost died or actually died.

    This, combined with the geocaching craze of the time, created a new social game. It’s been used in several marketing campaigns even. Where you create this alternative reality and crowd source solving puzzles, finding meads... all sorts of fun shit, if you just think about it as an abstract.

    I might be wrong here... but, with Watkins last message that a new project is coming soon... Could Q have also started as this sort of social espionage game, that simply got out of control? Maybe not to the people invested in it, but I think this was a social espionage game for Watkins... will see what the next project looks like... hope it makes dumb asses eat their own poop.
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-30 at 02:30 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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