View Poll Results: Should they be labeled as a terrorist organization?

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  • No [I'm Conservative]

    8 13.33%
  • Yes [I'm Liberal]

    33 55.00%
  • Yes [I'm Conservative]

    2 3.33%
  • No [I'm Liberal]

    17 28.33%
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  1. #261
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yo, where does antifa hang out and plan shit? Who are some of the notable names in antifa?
    The whole argument should be flipped off. It's a bad faith attempt to draw false equivalences and make it about backing "teams".

    What they want it to be about is "you back antifa and I back QAnon and both are bad so let's just accept that they should both be left alone".

    Which is fucked up and wrongheaded.

    What it should be about is the legal consequences for everyone involved in a particular attack, regardless of "team", regardless of political affiliations.

    Their problem with that is that with antifa events, you've got like a dozen rabble-rousers or rioters who cause a problem amid an otherwise peaceful protest, generally. They want the entire peaceful protest to be treated as "antifa" and thus a valid target. Which is horse shit.

    Failing that, they'll want to use this principle to defend insurrectionist criminals at the January 6 event and those who supported their crimes, even though every single person who entered the Capitol building as part of that event that day was a violent criminal who should be behind bars. There were no rabble-rousers acting within a crowd of peaceful protestors; every single individual who pushed past police lines and invaded the Capitol was a violent offender.

    Anyone bringing up Antifa or BLM in response to the Jan 6 attack is engaging in bad faith and they need to be reviled for their rhetoric and what it seeks to protect and support.

  2. #262
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Well if Antifa is just an idea then so is qanon. Both groups are retards but at least have some standards edge.
    QAnon wants Trump as god king of US... who do Antifa want elected?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Qanon isn't a directed organization with a hierarchy for what happened on the 6th january, that shit wasn't planned. Antifa on the other hand, wouldn't be outside their nature to do something like the 6th or worse had Trump won.
    Uhm... we had a thread about it, a week prior to it happening... what do you think we are, clairvoyant? You think it’s an accident some us knew people arrested from their previous actions in support of Trump? It’s amazing that there was no planning, but so many people knew about it...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Qanon isn't a directed organization with a hierarchy for what happened on the 6th january, that shit wasn't planned. Antifa on the other hand, wouldn't be outside their nature to do something like the 6th or worse had Trump won.
    Spoken like the true alt-reich supporter. "QAnon is innocent, honest! Antifa on the other hand totally would have done it. They haven't, and there's no reason I'm mentioning it other than to throw up the most obvious smokescreen..."

    Here's something for you to think about, and I want you to read me in a literal sense...

    Your position is unacceptable. It will not be tolerated. Neither is antifa, but that is beside the point. What I want you to understand is that whenever someone asks "Are we the baddies?" you need to take a hard look at yourself and say "Yes, we are." You pointing at another extremist group that should be condemned for their violent behaviour does not exonerate you. It does not normalize you. You are a danger to society and you need to understand that your attempt to normalise this behaviour is not going to end well.

    Or, of course you can continue as you do and this forum can continue extremist propaganda as they do so well... Must be great to hide behind empty terms like "neutrality" and suffer the utter bullshit that is happening here. This forum is as much to blame as the poster I'm responding to is. The mere fact that voices like his are tolerated empowers him and leads him to believe he has a reasonable position. Fuck, I've seen salamanders with more spine than the staff on this forum...
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-02-01 at 09:53 PM.
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  4. #264
    You are all way behind. RAnon is the shit now. Get with the times.

  5. #265
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Spoken like the true alt-reich supporter. "QAnon is innocent, honest! Antifa on the other hand totally would have done it. They haven't, and there's no reason I'm mentioning it other than to throw up the most obvious smokescreen..."
    The part they won't admit is that basically nobody is talking about making "believing QAnon conspiracy theories" illegal.

    They're talking about prosecuting the violent radicals who stormed the Capitol, and those involved in fomenting that insurrection.

    They do this to pretend that we're attacking the innocent old lady who's dumb as rocks but believes everything she reads on the Internet, but hasn't left her house in 8 years. And we're not. We're attacking the violent radicals who broke the law. For the violent law-breaking their radicalism led them to. The nature of the radicalism doesn't matter to whether they should be prosecuted, and I'd have the exact same stance for people claiming to be Antifa who smashed up a store front or engaged in looting.

    The difference is that you can separately judge them socially for the validity of their rhetoric. On which scale QAnon types are crazy for cocoa buffs and deserve nothing but derision, but Antifa have a really good point in opposing fascism. It's the difference between "crazy-ass nonsense you'd have to be an idiot to fall for" and "a really solid, justifiable argument, on which action is taken too far."

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    You are all way behind. RAnon is the shit now. Get with the times.
    It's weird how much people want to deflect for violent racists and conspiracy theorists.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Well if Antifa is just an idea then so is qanon. Both groups are retards but at least have some standards edge.
    Except as far as everyone is aware, Antifa doesn't have a leader, but Qcumbers have a leader, and we know who they are now.

  8. #268
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    You are all way behind. RAnon is the shit now. Get with the times.
    You still have a MAGA avatar... waiting for March 6th? That will be the day?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I admit I might be missing some minor thing.
    Yup, you always are. Shame there is no cure for what ails ya.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I don't honestly believe that was the motive. It's like when I poke fun at BLM wanting to just loot and commit arson sure a good chunk of them were bad actors but most of them were peaceful protesters.
    They planted bombs in the Capitol and DNC headquarters. There are photographs of armed "protestors" with zip tie hand cuffs on their belts. They built a fucking gallows and called for the hangings of Pence, Pelosi, and others.

    No, they weren't intending to hurt anyone though, strictly peaceful protest.
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  11. #271
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    They planted bombs in the Capitol and DNC headquarters. There are photographs of armed "protestors" with zip tie hand cuffs on their belts. They built a fucking gallows and called for the hangings of Pence, Pelosi, and others.

    No, they weren't intending to hurt anyone though, strictly peaceful protest.
    Also beheadings of those they disagree with.

    And for everyone who's gonna argue "that was just SOME of them", the rest sure had no problems whatsoever standing shoulder to shoulder with these violent lunatics as they screamed their intent into microphones and on video. Everyone there knew this violent intent was prevalent, because it was very loud and overt.

    If you're in a bank and you see a guy start shouting that he's gonna kill everyone unless he gets the money, and your response is to jump up next to him and shout "Yeah! Give us all the money or die!" Congrats, you're a violent bank robber and complicit in the crime. Even if you're just jumping in opportunistically.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The difference is that you can separately judge them socially for the validity of their rhetoric. On which scale QAnon types are crazy for cocoa buffs and deserve nothing but derision, but Antifa have a really good point in opposing fascism. It's the difference between "crazy-ass nonsense you'd have to be an idiot to fall for" and "a really solid, justifiable argument, on which action is taken too far."
    For me it's much simpler. Sure, ideologically antifa's stance of being literally anti-fascist is probably beyond criticism. But if you smash windows, you broke the rules and have to face the consequences. And I don't care why you broke the window or why you ran a car over someone. The story ends there for me. The stupid bickering of who smashed the window more angry couldn't concern me less.

    But then, apparently I'm not getting it. I can't even take these alt-right people serious. If you're asking me for my honest opinion, they're a bunch of anarchist kids who like to play with fire and have absolutely no concept of what it actually means. I would say the same for antifa, but when you talk to them, their point of opposing a fascist idea is probably not the worst cause you can have. Their problem, however, is that they blur the lines and think everyone's a fascist who's not agreeing with them. At least in Germany. And of course they - just like the alt-right imbeciles - have militant blocs that there is just no talking with.

    What is hard to get into their brains, either side, is that they are a tiny, yet very disruptive, minority in society and everyone else would rather both of them just shut up and learn to function in the real world for a change. I don't need the news of a dude driving over a dozen people at a rally with his dumbass redneck car. Neither do I need my local shopping mall being in rubble because someone decided that since a big bank sponsored the foyer decorations, it's a sign of wall street corruption and needs to be shattered.

    And of course my general being offended at people just being stupid and insulting my intelligence with the most inane bullshit they rip off third-party blogshitpages and expect me to take them seriously. Which I try sometimes, but it's so much time invested into trying to understand their crazy so you can get at the argument from an angle their tiny minds can understand.

    @QAnon fans, leftists and miscellaneous conspiracy nutters: Yes, that was me being condescending. I don't give a shit, deal with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Except as far as everyone is aware, Antifa doesn't have a leader, but Qcumbers have a leader, and we know who they are now.
    QAnon is one militant block. Antifa has the black bloc as well in Germany. If you want to talk about antifa, you need to talk about the alt-right or whatever fancy name they give themselves this week in the US, not just QAnon. Don't let them dictate what you're discussing. If they muddle the waters, you need to make sure everyone understands what the topic is. It's either the black bloc/QAnon (both very, very criminal groups) or it's antifa/alt-right... where the shade is more of a grey blob of bad taste rather than the rather binary "Did you just attack/invade and occupy the seat of Government of the US or not?"

    Sorry, I just made life more difficult for you, but there you go, stuff is complicated and simple answers are usually not as helpful as people initially think.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-02-02 at 02:57 AM.
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  13. #273
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also beheadings of those they disagree with.

    And for everyone who's gonna argue "that was just SOME of them", the rest sure had no problems whatsoever standing shoulder to shoulder with these violent lunatics as they screamed their intent into microphones and on video.
    There is a dinner party. Ten people are dining. 7 of them are proud and loud Nazis. Everyone knows this. How many Nazis are dining?

    Ten.

    If you're not disavowing the dangerous and vile men within your social or political groups, you're one of them.

  14. #274
    It's not an organization, there's no unity amongst conspiracy theorists for the simple reason they see conspiracies amongst themselves, they can't agree cuz they distrust each other as being fake.
    If they didn't, they wouldn't be conspiracy theorists in the first place.

  15. #275
    Seems pointless. Similar to how labelling Antifa a terrorist organization would be (I'm of course not blind to the fact that many people get falsely labelled as Antifa in the US but that is another topic).

    From what I've seen and heard, there are many beliefs that they profess - some ideas might be deemed crazy by one QAnon but not another QAnon. QAnons are just straight crazypants-town, it's not just another political view but a whole different fantasy world they live in.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    sip
    Right, so the thing is, not all forms of political violence are equally bad.


    Scenario 1. Kristalnacht.
    Scenario 2. The Romanian Revolution of 1989 (a relatively recent event in a European nation.)

    Both were politically motivated, both were bloody and messy events, and both had public murders.

    One produced a genocidal regime that lead to a war that rampaged across the world and killed hundreds of millions.

    The other produced (after much pain) a functioning and stable democracy with a multi ethnic state with a fairly decent future outlook. That's after the televised execution of a dictator and his wife and nation wide violence, looting and destruction of public and private property.

    There is a point where political violence is ultimately not just acceptable but necessary.

    Punch the fascist loudmouth today so he can't put you and millions of others into death camps tomorrow.

    Create havock in the streets to force institutional reform today before the police and justice system become extensions of your local Nazi party.

    The past 4 years the US has become uncomfortably close to sliding down on the slippery slope of fascism and action had to be taken, in some cases radical action to oppose public displays of radicalism and to at least force some law enforcement and local governance reforms.

    I don't know if you have noticed, but the severity of Antifa's actions is directly proportional to the scale of the imminent threat (at least in the US). Police killings, Fascist public displays like Charlottesville (I'd argue the Unite the Right rally, even without the car rampage was an act of political violence meant to intimidate and to normalize public displays of fascism and white supremacy) triggered the most virulent reactions.

    That one sad lone Trump supporter who made it to pro Trump rally on inauguration day wasn't swamped and beaten senseless, nor did rioters trash the national mall demanding police reform.

    It's very easy to get rid of Antifa. Get rid of the fascists.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-02-02 at 01:07 PM.

  17. #277
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    It's not an organization, there's no unity amongst conspiracy theorists for the simple reason they see conspiracies amongst themselves, they can't agree cuz they distrust each other as being fake.
    If they didn't, they wouldn't be conspiracy theorists in the first place.
    You are making shit up... Do they magically appear at dodgers stadium yesterday, to halt vaccine distribution? They magically, without agreement, just appeared there? Their social media asking those who gathered to not mention Trump or Q, so they pass for normies, also not organized?

    They shut down vaccine distribution for an hour...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You are making shit up... Do they magically appear at dodgers stadium yesterday, to halt vaccine distribution? They magically, without agreement, just appeared there? Their social media asking those who gathered to not mention Trump or Q, so they pass for normies, also not organized?

    They shut down vaccine distribution for an hour...
    Aren't u the ones who denies antifa being an organization? If organizing some shit is all it takes then antifa isn't just an idea if one goes by ur description.

  19. #279
    Q is not an organization. Its soul crushingly stupid, but its not an organization.

    All these white guy militias? They are organizations and they should be classified as terrorists.

    We can't fall down the stupid Trump hole and just name random things terrorist organizations, like they did with antfa.

  20. #280
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Aren't u the ones who denies antifa being an organization? If organizing some shit is all it takes then antifa isn't just an idea if one goes by ur description.
    Uhm... Organizing some shit? Where is Antifa staging protests against vaccines? Are the conspiracy theories these people follow, just a logical conclusion based on real world experience?

    The idea that government is going fascist, with expanding authoritarianism, is a logical conclusion anyone can come to. The idea that Gates and Clinton’s are putting micro chips, that do no exist in our reality, into vaccines... is not an idea you just independently reach. You are told... being told, requires leadership, to be told what to think.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    We can't fall down the stupid Trump hole and just name random things terrorist organizations, like they did with antfa.
    What rabbit hole? Classifying QAnon as a terrorist organization, would inhibit their ability to organize. If they are not an organized group as they claim... what’s lost? They will just get new members, because it’s a logical conclusion that everyone can come to with enouph research? With enough research QAnon will gain members, because anyone can tell JFK jr was a hidden agent that trusted Trump with the future of America... do your research...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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