Should QAnon be labeled as a terrorist organization?

[Slant]

I love how people from other countries are going to tell me what its like in my own country.

Once again, if you are a BLACK AMERICAN, that definition is on the money. You not being able to understand or relate to that has no bearing on the truth of it.

How about you don't appropriate labels from other countries then if you don't want them involved and especially if you don't know what those terms mean. And you can't subsume everything you want into a new label just because you lack the words to actually describe what your issue is about. Rofl.

Or did you mean your complete lack of knowledge of how your political system works and what's in your constitution? Yeah, I can see how that is a bit embarassing.

I mean, I get it, Americans have a hard time with complicated things like "speaking english" sometimes, but really, your tendency to redefine words to mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean is becoming increasingly irritating. Use the words properly, that is the whole point of communication.

[Bodakane]

How about you don't appropriate labels from other countries then if you don't want them involved and especially if you don't know what those terms mean. And you can't subsume everything you want into a new label just because you lack the words to actually describe what your issue is about. Rofl.

I mean, I get it, Americans have a hard time with complicated things like "speaking english" sometimes, but really, your tendency to redefine words to mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean is becoming increasingly irritating. Use the words properly, that is the whole point of communication.

lol, yeah, i'm the guy that started calling them Antifa here in the US.

Again, I didn't redefine a fucking thing. I used the actual goddamned definition.

You getting butthurt doesn't create in me a sense of obligation to agree with your wrongheaded bullshit.

[Mihalik]

I know you get all kinds of tickled by WW2 and nazis, but you have got to let go of that topic. I'll point out when you're in danger of becoming Hitler Nation 2.0, rest assured. But if you read my response to the other dude, you'll see what fascism actually is and why the term actually does not apply to the US, actually. I'm not projecting anything, I'm just pointing out that you are using the wrong label, you are confused and distracting yourself from a very homegrown problem in the US by pretending it's not an all-Americal all-star convention of bad stuff happening.

And I'd be careful arguing with me about German legislation, because while I'm happy to school you on your own constitution, I REALLY know German legal and historical context. That's not a rollercoaster ride you want to take with me. But I'm always happy to provide, so just feel free to test me...

You're being very weird about this.

Again one more time.

Fascism doesn't spring into existence from zero to 100 in a snap of a fucking finger. It's a gradual process.

The US from the moment it came into existence has always leaned more towards fascism than towards democracy. You cite the whole "All men are created equal bit". That offers no real protection, even assuming people apply the principle, because you can just define people out of "men" which we have done for hundreds of years of our history. Then you can redefine what "equal" is... which we have done, and continue doing right now (The Equal Rights Amendment for example or Voter suppression, hell, even the Electoral College).

Then for example your other hot take on this one

- severe economic and social regimentation

Do I need to talk you through this? If anything, the US suffers from a LACK of sensible regulation.

You are missing the point of what "severe economic and social regimentation" means in the US context. We are not talking about sensible regulation or its absence or a command economy.

We are talking about things like legal protections corporations and in some cases things like police departments or branches of the US government receive from being sued by the public. Protections that prevent black people from suing banks that discriminate based on race when handing out loans. Or laws that protect state run, tax payer funded job placement agencies from being sued when they discriminate against people of color or gays.

Or systems like the private for profit prison system which is allowed to work prisoners for profit and in turn can legally lobby law makers to pass targeted laws that affect minority groups more severely to increase prison populations.

Again, I'm not getting into the rest of your points in your reply to Endus, I'm just going to tell you on the friendliest terms that I can, you are completely missing the context on every single one of your points and the conclusions are coming to are just wrong.

[Slant]

lol, yeah, i'm the guy that started calling them Antifa here in the US.

Again, I didn't redefine a fucking thing. I used the actual goddamned definition.

You getting butthurt doesn't create in me a sense of obligation to agree with your wrongheaded bullshit.

So you don't know what you're talking about. Glad we got that sorted out. It's frankly a bit disgusting to see you being such a bad champion for your cause, but I guess the blacks will have to do with people like you. Explains why they're in such a bad position, to be quite frank with you...

- - - Updated - - -

You're being very weird about this.

Again one more time.

Fascism doesn't spring into existence from zero to 100 in a snap of a fucking finger. It's a gradual process.

The US from the moment it came into existence has always leaned more towards fascism than towards democracy. You cite the whole "All men are created equal bit". That offers no real protection, even assuming people apply the principle, because you can just define people out of "men" which we have done for hundreds of years of our history. Then you can redefine what "equal" is... which we have done, and continue doing right now (The Equal Rights Amendment for example or Voter suppression, hell, even the Electoral College).

Then for example your other hot take on this one

You are missing the point "severe economic and social regimentation". We are not talking about sensible regulation.

We are talking about things like legal protections corporations and in some cases things like police departments or branches of the US government receive from being sued by the public. Protections like prevent black people from suing banks that discriminate based on race when handing loans. Or laws that protect state run, tax payer funded job placement agencies from being sued when they discriminate against people of color or gays.

Or systems the private for profit prison system which is allowed to work prisoners for profit and in turn can legally lobby law makers to pass targeted laws that affect minority groups more severely to increase prison populations.

Again, I'm not getting into the rest of your points in your reply to Endus, I'm just going to tell you on the friendliest terms that I can, you are completely missing the context on every single one of your points and the conclusions are coming to are just wrong.

Hi, ignoring legal and political realities and wishing Hitler Nation 2.0 into being just because you're bored and or displaying a very, very disgusting fascination with Nazis (something I only observe in the British and Americans, interestingly) does not make a fascist state.

The US has never EVER leaned towards fascism. Not even a little bit. This is the type of empty headed bullshit you tell each other to make stuff more interesting, but it really doesn't work like that. It's a FULL BLOWN PROPER DEMOCRACY. No matter how often some knuckleheads tell each other the myth that a Republic can't be democratic. Some outrageously stupid stuff that is. And that "bit" is the first major civil rights bullet point in your constitution. Read it, it's worth it.

Blablabla, you are not happy about the situation. I get it, I understand it... but you would have much more success addressing the actual problems rather than philosophising about fascism because you JUST LOVE to talk about Nazis. God you can't get enough. Would be fun to live in actual Naziland, wouldn't it, so you could actually see how it is. It's shit. If you think you are in any way shape or form oppressed by an autocratic Government, I'd like you to take a long hard look at ACTUAL fascist states.

Did you get executed by a court because you threw some flyers down the University steps? Do you knwo anyone being charged, convicted and executed for anything like that? I'm not talking about police malpractice, I'm talking about ALL GOVERNMENT BRANCHES working together to legally END YOUR LIFE because you chose to disagree with the regime?

Is that happening in the US? Do you have an actual law that PUNISHES YOU WITH DEATH for dissent, with the police apprehending you because the fucking Janitor ratted on you, and a middle-aged, amiable judge calmly announcing your DEATH because legally you dissented and therefore do not deserve to live anymore? Did you have your parents escorted to the prison in a calm manner, because that is how proceedings go to say goodbye before your head is chopped off because you happen to disagree with the Government? No? Then stop fucking talking about things you know nothing about.

There is no "We're almost fascist, so let me have it" argument. End of story.

You are a living insult to everyone that died to actual fascism. And at the same time you are distracting from the problems black people in the US face on a daily basis. While you pretend to "have done your part" by doing a bullshit argument about fascism that ultimately either only serves to entertain you and tickle your fancy or to portray you as a victim yourself.

Please, don't get into my points. I've wasted enough time on you and I doubt you have the mental capacity to actually follow an actual legal argument if I showed you a map to go along with it. Bye now.

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One last thing before I leave... none of y'all would be having this conversation if y'all lived in a fascist regime. You'd be shutting up and/or cowering in some cellar hiding your political position as well as you can. This thread is in itself enough proof of the hilarious fallacy of US fascism. Be grateful and make sure you never let fascism rule the US, but I'm very happy to attest that you are very, very much far away from being fascist. Now stop this silliness.

[Bodakane]

So you don't know what you're talking about. Glad we got that sorted out. It's frankly a bit disgusting to see you being such a bad champion for your cause, but I guess the blacks will have to do with people like you. Explains why they're in such a bad position, to be quite frank with you...

Really, at this point, I cannot decide if you're taking the stupid position you're taking because:

- You're uber right wing.

Or

- You're doing the whole, "If you think your X is great/awful, you should how much better/worse my X is".

Of course, i'm aware those choices don't have to mutually exclusive.....

[Mihalik]

One last thing before I leave... none of y'all would be having this conversation if y'all lived in a fascist regime. You'd be shutting up and/or cowering in some cellar hiding your political position as well as you can. This thread is in itself enough proof of the hilarious fallacy of US fascism. Be grateful and make sure you never let fascism rule the US, but I'm very happy to attest that you are very, very much far away from being fascist. Now stop this silliness.

Holy fuckballs dude. You have went full ballistic off your rockers. And every single fucking thing you've just said before this is factually wrong. What the fuck are you on about? Even fucking Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder would think you went waaay too far on Kool Aid.

The reason why we haven't quite went full fucking Nazi is because people constantly fucking struggle against the tendency to do so!

That's what the fuck the Civil War was, that's what the Civil Rights movement was, that's what Antifa and BLM are. Because if we would have just all went "Shut up and be grateful" we would have went fucking full nazi 15 times over and half of the people living in North America today would have went the way of the Native Americans ages ago.

What the shit. I was horrifyingly wrong about you. You're right up there with Theo and the rest, I just don't think in your case it's malice, it just think it's a scary combination of pure ignorance and unwillingness to challenge your own biases.

[Felya]

QAnon is a concept not an organization. There's nothing in and of itself to label a terrorist organization. Just like Antifa. Go after the QAnon spouting and believing militias as they are tangible organizations. And that can be done by declaring them individually as terrorist organizations.

Can you explain to me, how ones comes to concepts like QAnon, without leadership? You think a bunch of people who have no awareness of each other, looked at the data, to conclude that JFK jr intrusted Trump with a global conspiracy? This isn’t a doomsday prophecy... there are goals as it pertains to overthrowing government and installing their version of government.

As I pointed out already, Antifa is a repeated and understandable reaction to authoritarianism, as it starts to look like fascism.

You can't declare war on a concept. Terrorism is nebulous. Declaring war on AQ or ISIS is one thing, declaring war on a nebulous concept like terrorism is boundary less and without those boundaries can easily be abused. This is how they brainwash their base, by creating concrete entities out of nebulous things....like "the media". If it is nebulous then it is malleable and can be used for whatever they want it to.

The nebulous nature of QAnon is your ignorance. There is nothing different between a group in US that wants to overthrow the US government on behalf of Taliban and a group that wants to overthrow the government to install Trump.

[Ivanstone]

1. No. You being very emotional about it all and thinking everything is so fucking unfair doesn't make it legal reality. Feel free to show me active laws that are still being enforced and not overthrown by the Supreme Court that actively discriminate against race, specifically against blacks or Latinos. Show me the legal regulation that gives other "races" a "pass". And only if they're polite to white people? Show me the party program for the GOP that describes them as a "racist" party. How are they suppressing the Democrats? The Democrats just won the election, they own congress. I mean, I think the GOP is a pretty incompetent bunch, but this is just beyond sucking at their job if their job is to oppress the opposition. It was a GOP Vice President that presided and ultimately approved the electoral count and made Biden's Presidency a legal reality. Man, they really, really suck at oppression.

2. A country being "full" of people liking the idea of a fascist Government does not make a fascist Government. And let's be clear, the VERY VAST MAJORITY of US citizens do not want a fascist Government. We're talking 90% or so here. You grossly misrepresent the political landscape of the US because you ignore the big ass moderate center.

You need to calm the fuck down and stop making shit up, otherwise you're making it too easy for the other side to dismiss you. You're just as crazy as the ultra-orthodox conservatives or alt-right dreaming up wild conspiracy theories about Jews ruling the world and trying to usurp the US with Mexicans so they can turn the US into a communist utopia...

1. The US doesn’t have a lot of standards. For example, if you’re arrested for a specific crime there’s no set way of handling it. Which is why white people will often get less or no bail for a crime and a shorter sentence in the less likely event they get convicted. It’s what’s the whole religious belief laws are about. A particular group of people get a pass on being shitty to others because of their religious beliefs.

As for voter rights in particular Biden and the Dems barely won.
The Presidency is a rigged game in favour of the GOP. The electoral college was set up to protect less populated slave states and it still works to this day to favour rural white voters.
The Dems barely won the house because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. It is illegal to do these things on the basis of race. It’s not illegal to do this on the basis of party and that’s precisely what happens. The last voting standard set up in the US was tossed out by a partisan Supreme Court. I am not in the least slightest bit being hyperbolic about this.
The Senate is another rigged game. You can’t gerrymander the senate but voter suppression still happens and the senate gives disproportionate power to the same rural white states that are empowered by the electoral college. The Dems barely got both Georgia seats and immediately after their victory the GOP controlled state government started drafting laws to further suppress the vote.

The Dems need to have much stronger turnouts to get anything accomplished.

PS Pence’s job was strictly ceremonial. Even if he said no, it would’ve happened.

2. 74 million people voted for a proto-fascist. Loudly proclaiming you’re for freedom doesn’t mean you actually believe in it.

[Bodakane]

Can you explain to me, how ones comes to concepts like QAnon, without leadership? You think a bunch of people who have no awareness of each other, looked at the data, to conclude that JFK jr intrusted Trump with a global conspiracy? This isn’t a doomsday prophecy... there are goals as it pertains to overthrowing government and installing their version of government.

As I pointed out already, Antifa is a repeated and understandable reaction to authoritarianism, as it starts to look like fascism.



The nebulous nature of QAnon is your ignorance. There is nothing different between a group in US that wants to overthrow the US government on behalf of Taliban and a group that wants to overthrow the government to install Trump.

Yes I do. I think one person spouts something and it gets caught in the echo chamber of Facebook or forums. It is no more a concrete organization than Dallas Cowboys fans. Are there cowboy fan organizations? Yes. Does the nebulous "being a fan of the cowboys" make you part of an organization? No. This isn't a hard concept and you're not usually stupid so i don't know why you're struggling so hard.

The only thing ignorant is your stance on this and your rebuttal with Antifa. I love the antifa movement and hope its always here. I'm not arguing its merits though. I'm arguing it is not a concrete organization. Neither is QAnon. If there was QAnon Believers of New Hampshire, for example, and they are doing terrorist shit, go after them specifically.

[postman1782]

Aren't u the ones who denies antifa being an organization? If organizing some shit is all it takes then antifa isn't just an idea if one goes by ur description.

They aren't an organization. Can you tell me who the leaders are? Because we know who this Q moron is.

[Felya]

Yes I do. I think one person spouts something and it gets caught in the echo chamber of Facebook or forums. It is no more a concrete organization than Dallas Cowboys fans. Are there cowboy fan organizations? Yes. Does the nebulous "being a fan of the cowboys" make you part of an organization? No. This isn't a hard concept and you're not usually stupid so i don't know why you're struggling so hard.

But, the Cowboys are an organization. If Jerry Jones chooses to claim all true Cowboys fans must storm the capital, cowboy fans intrinsically become terrorist. If Jerry Jones tells people to drink the cool aid, which ones are not part of the cult?

The only thing ignorant is your stance on this and your rebuttal with Antifa. I love the antifa movement and hope its always here. I'm not arguing its merits though. I'm arguing it is not a concrete organization. Neither is QAnon. If there was QAnon Believers of New Hampshire, for example, and they are doing terrorist shit, go after them specifically.

I’m rebutting your assertion of likeness between the two and will ask again... If there is authoritarianism that resembles fascism, would that lead to Antifa? If there is no Q telling people JFK jr is leading Trump against deep state, is there QAnon? You are ignoring the inevitability of Antifa vs the guidance of Q...

[Bodakane]

But, the Cowboys are an organization. If Jerry Jones chooses to claim all true Cowboys fans must storm the capital, cowboy fans intrinsically become terrorist. If Jerry Jones tells people to drink the cool aid, which ones are not part of the cult?

The ones that did what he said are the ones that should be labeled terrorists. Action versus thought. Again this is NOT COMPLICATED.

I’m rebutting your assertion of likeness between the two and will ask again... If there is authoritarianism that resembles fascism, would that lead to Antifa? If there is no Q telling people JFK jr is leading Trump against deep state, is there QAnon? You are ignoring the inevitability of Antifa vs the guidance of Q...

What you're doing has fuck all to do with my point though. What you're doing is trying to baffle with bullshit because you know QAnon is NOT an organization and just don't want to admit you're wrong.

[jonnysensible]

Qanon since the capital riots is becoming even more decentralized. cults are legal in the usa anyway right?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

i wouldnt say that. they are going to protest next week

[Felya]

i wouldnt say that. they are going to protest next week

What are they protesting?

[PosPosPos]

-nonsense snip-

At the height of sheer ignorance we have someone who claims it isn't fascism until it's full blown Nazi Germany.

I laughed.

So based on your logic, right just before the Holocaust, Germany was democratic.

[Yadryonych]

Is that happening in the US? Do you have an actual law that PUNISHES YOU WITH DEATH for dissent, with the police apprehending you because the fucking Janitor ratted on you, and a middle-aged, amiable judge calmly announcing your DEATH because legally you dissented and therefore do not deserve to live anymore? Did you have your parents escorted to the prison in a calm manner, because that is how proceedings go to say goodbye before your head is chopped off because you happen to disagree with the Government? No? Then stop fucking talking about things you know nothing about.

Always remember you are talking to people who want this to actually happen to their opponents such as Trump supporters and GOP voters in general. They theatrically clutch on their pearls in fear of fascism because they know exactly how it should work, they just expect it to work in their favour

[Slant]

At the height of sheer ignorance we have someone who claims it isn't fascism until it's full blown Nazi Germany.

I laughed.

So based on your logic, right just before the Holocaust, Germany was democratic.

Fascism != Holocaust. I mean, I want to comment on that, but I can't, cos fucking @Rozz is going to ban me if I talk to you any longer. Instead, I'll have fucking @Rozz explain to you why they are not the same and why the basis of your post is ludicrous. Go ahead @Rozz, explain that shit to him...

[Grubenwolf]

Like the term racism and sexism I think people are starting to throw the term terrorist and terrorism around too loosely now. What should we call BLM and ANTIFA since they were the ones "peacefully protesting" by setting fires and destroying property, defacing historical monuments, and harrassing innocent people on the streets? These are also the people who are nominated for Nobel Peace prize. What kind of peace did these people make?

So not that I'm defending qanon (I honestly don't even know a lot about them only that they're this group of radical conspiracy nuts liberals and democrats keep talking about) but when have you seen any of them march in the streets causing chaos and destruction like the ANTIFA and BLM rioters have? No one on the left seems to want to put any accountability on them because they're black and oppressed.

Also where's people's proof that this qanon organization/group or whatever "incited" this violence? They've already caught some BLM/antifa people down there so who's to say it wasn't them? Videos were shown of some handing out weapons to other people and some actually putting on Trump shirts and hats and posing as Trump supporters but you never hear of them. Must be a "conspiracy theory" too I guess since everything that isn't a liberal/democrat opinion is these days.

[Bodakane]

Like the term racism and sexism I think people are starting to throw the term terrorist and terrorism around too loosely now. What should we call BLM and ANTIFA since they were the ones "peacefully protesting" by setting fires and destroying property, defacing historical monuments, and harrassing innocent people on the streets? These are also the people who are nominated for Nobel Peace prize. What kind of peace did these people make?

So not that I'm defending qanon but when have you seen any of them march in the streets causing chaos and destruction like the ANTIFA and BLM rioters have? No one seems to want to put any accountability on them because they're black and oppressed.

Also where's people's proof that this qanon organization/group or whatever "incited" this violence? They've already caught some BLM/antifa people down there. Videos were shown of some handing out weapons to other people and some actually putting on Trump shirts and hats and posing as Trump supporters but you never hear of them. Must be a "conspiracy theory" too I guess since everything that isn't a liberal/democrat opinion is these days.

Wherever you get your news, you should stop doing that immediately.