The maw and conduit upgrades really suck

[aceperson]

Not necessarily true. If you have a trait that increases your ability X by 30% and then 35%, provided your ability X still does the same % of overall damage, that increase does not scale exponentially. Yeah the absolute value will be higher, but not %-wise.

i'm not sure if you're trolling me or not understanding me. i'm not saying there is a 5-10% dps difference based on conduits RIGHT NOW. i am saying there WILL BE. as gear and conduits keep scaling, the base will get higher and the percentages will get higher. as the base gets higher, the lower lvl conduits will still give a higher dps difference just because thats how percentages with a base value work. when you increase the base AND percentage, the curve will be affected by one linear scale (base gear) and one exponential scale (conduits). if conduits were left as they are now, there would still be big increases but not nearly as big as increasing both would result in.

[Keyblader]

I think this is the grind that somehow made it under the radar, and everyone kinda missed it coming out of beta. Yes people knew about the 7k stygia for sockets, but no one was really talking about the stygia grind for 226 conduits as well, even more than that if your conduits are low. Not to mention, this is a gamble. You aren't guaranteed to get the conduit you want, for the spec you're playing. So it was kind of a stealth gamble grind that somehow people just didn't identify immediately.

[Cracked]

i'm not sure if you're trolling me or not understanding me. i'm not saying there is a 5-10% dps difference based on conduits RIGHT NOW. i am saying there WILL BE. as gear and conduits keep scaling, the base will get higher and the percentages will get higher. as the base gets higher, the lower lvl conduits will still give a higher dps difference just because thats how percentages with a base value work. when you increase the base AND percentage, the curve will be affected by one linear scale (base gear) and one exponential scale (conduits). if conduits were left as they are now, there would still be big increases but not nearly as big as increasing both would result in.

And I'm telling you that the scaling on conduits is linear, not exponential. Go check the percentages for traits. (Disclaimer I haven't checked all conduits for all classes, good for you if you find an example that doesn't follow it).

[mr2t]

The only thing worse than hyperbole is factually incorrect hyperbole.

Good thing it's not hyperbole

[aceperson]

i thought i would explain it to you using text at first but i don't think you would've understood my point. so i'm working on an excel spreadsheet going over the effects 2 dps conduits would have on a base individually and paired together. been working on it for about an hour now and i think i'm close to done. i'm good with math but not very proficient with excel so it's taking me a bit to work out to equations on it.

[ohwell]

Theirs a resto shaman conduit tumbling waves that I wanted to upgrade. At ilvl 200 its a 26% chance shoots up to 30% i think at max rank i guess its not a huge difference but still

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I dont know if that conduit actually drops in the raid. Like I looked at the loot table and it only dropped from the world boss which was a max 200 item level

The conduit upgrade is NOT the only way to get upgrades. It's a guaranteed way. Also if you've simply been playing, you should have all of your conduits at max non raid rank so you eventually will get it. You do not need venari for your conduits.

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Good thing it's not hyperbole

It most certainly is considering I finish my dailies and am at max jailer eye in about 30 minutes or less and took maybe 45 minutes before I had the mount.

[Tiberria]

Yeah its not worth it just raid for your conduits and save your stygia for gems

The issue with that is not all conduits drop from raids - there are many of them (and many that are BiS for specs) that are only available from M+, and if the conduits you need are for dungeons, I believe that the only way to get ones above 200 ilvl is to farm them through Stygia and hope you randomly get the right ones. Classes with lots of specs and roles really get screwed by this, because you need to get all of your conduits to 200 for the Stygia thing to have a chance at getting the ones you want to 213, and then all to 213 before getting a 226. Druids for example need twice the Stygia as Demon Hunters for this.

I feel that at minimum, the conduit upgrade item should respect your loot spec and only affect conduits that are associated with that loot spec.

[aceperson]

https://i.imgur.com/S2LDaCE.jpg

this took about an hour and 20 minutes to properly map out (even then the very end result is a little off because figuring out how to apply partial effects in excel is too annoying). as you can see, as the base dps AND the base percentage increase, the actual effect the percentage has on dps scales exponentially as displayed by the % increase of scale 1/2/both over base. if it was linear, there wouldn't be difference interval changes between each point outlined. as an example since that might not be worded very well, the % increase of both over base at heroic CN is 4.470%, the % increase over base of what would be next tier is 6.181%, and the % increase over base of 2 tiers from now is 7.898%. if it was linear, the trend from tier 2 to tier 3 would've increased by 1.711% instead of the actual 1.717%. hence, it scale exponentially.

edit: the conduits used in this spreadsheet are one with the beast and bloodletting. so this math is based on actual parameters set forth by current scaling with future base being a guess just to set a bar to work with. the % change is what matters, not the base number or the final dps numbers anyways.

[Glorious Leader]

The conduit upgrade is NOT the only way to get upgrades. It's a guaranteed way. Also if you've simply been playing, you should have all of your conduits at max non raid rank so you eventually will get it. You do not need venari for your conduits.

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It most certainly is considering I finish my dailies and am at max jailer eye in about 30 minutes or less and took maybe 45 minutes before I had the mount.

In specific the conduit im after isnt part of a raid drop beyond ilvl 200 as far as I'm aware. Literally the only way to upgrade it is venari again as far as I'm aware. Tumbling waves.

[Revamp Man]

I was reading on how to upgrade some of your conduits and my understanding is you need "cordial" with the venari which is already a pain in the dick but the item to do it will basically aways upgrade the shittiest conduit you have not the one you want and you have to be in your covenant to use it so back and forth and back and forth... wtf...

just do the weekly quests from venari and you can get cordial in a few weeks

i did the grind originally just to unlock it but ive slowed down since and just the weekly quests have me almost to appreciated

[ohwell]

What's even better is that classes have different amounts of conduits, and yet they all cost 1900.

Demon Hunter has 15 conduits, to upgrade them all once it'd cost 28500 stygia.
Mage has 20 conduits, to upgrade them all once it'd cost 38000 stygia.
Druid has 24 conduits, to upgrade them all once it'd cost 45600 stygia.

I mean what even is the cap for the ilvl because I can't get any clear answers from wowhead.

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just do the weekly quests from venari and you can get cordial in a few weeks

i did the grind originally just to unlock it but ive slowed down since and just the weekly quests have me almost to appreciated

yeah the weeklies are really the only sizeable source.

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In specific the conduit im after isnt part of a raid drop beyond ilvl 200 as far as I'm aware. Literally the only way to upgrade it is venari again as far as I'm aware. Tumbling waves.

Drops from all 4 world bosses. Is there even beyond 200 on it? They have files for up to 300 something for them which are clearly not possible. Point is that if the others can be you really can't say this one can necessarily, but also if you can upgrade everything else via mythic raids etc, then you really don't need that much stygia for this one. If the complaint is the rep, it isn't long.

[Zmagoslav]

Yeah its not worth it just raid for your conduits and save your stygia for gems

The raid drops only finesse and endurance conduits.
Not really that useful ones.

[cparle87]

Good thing it's not hyperbole

If you're spending more than 45 minutes in the Maw each day you're doing something very, VERY wrong. You have 3 dailies each day, and 2-3 weeklies, two hunts, and a wrath to spread out over the week.

[Enclave]

If you're spending more than 45 minutes in the Maw each day you're doing something very, VERY wrong. You have 3 dailies each day, and 2-3 weeklies, two hunts, and a wrath to spread out over the week.

if you want to minmax and get jailer lvl 5 each day it is 45 min because those 3 dailies are only getting you to level 1.5 then you need to kill +- 15 rares

[Cracked]

https://i.imgur.com/S2LDaCE.jpg

this took about an hour and 20 minutes to properly map out (even then the very end result is a little off because figuring out how to apply partial effects in excel is too annoying). as you can see, as the base dps AND the base percentage increase, the actual effect the percentage has on dps scales exponentially as displayed by the % increase of scale 1/2/both over base. if it was linear, there wouldn't be difference interval changes between each point outlined. as an example since that might not be worded very well, the % increase of both over base at heroic CN is 4.470%, the % increase over base of what would be next tier is 6.181%, and the % increase over base of 2 tiers from now is 7.898%. if it was linear, the trend from tier 2 to tier 3 would've increased by 1.711% instead of the actual 1.717%. hence, it scale exponentially.

edit: the conduits used in this spreadsheet are one with the beast and bloodletting. so this math is based on actual parameters set forth by current scaling with future base being a guess just to set a bar to work with. the % change is what matters, not the base number or the final dps numbers anyways.

First of all, I wasn't disputing that the % increase to base is exponential, because that's how % work with absolute values. It's about the scaling of % increase itself. Second, you are either doing some crooked math or your missing modifier" is mudding the numbers, which makes it all but impossible to verify. If you calculate absolute diference between the final % between tiers, there's no clear conclusion from your numbers. My conclusion is that the % increase is linearly growing, which is to be expected.

Either way it doesn't exactly matter, since the increases are rather small, so linear and exponential will behave pretty similarly, even as an approximation.

[Lilsamee]

yeah spend hours daily sitting in the maw for a .2-.3% upgrade to an ability.

dont know what you mean by hours per day? i get it done in 15 min tops

[cparle87]

if you want to minmax and get jailer lvl 5 each day it is 45 min because those 3 dailies are only getting you to level 1.5 then you need to kill +- 15 rares

Tuesday. Dailies, hunt, 1-2 weeklies, couple rares. Wednesday. Dailies, remaining 1-2 weekly, wrath, couple rares. Thursday, dailies, some rares (outlier day). Friday, dailies and other hunt. Sunday/Monday same as Thursday. Thur/Sun/Mon only days you really need to grind for rares, and it's never close to 15. You underestimate how much the dailies give.

[Enclave]

Tuesday. Dailies, hunt, 1-2 weeklies, couple rares. Wednesday. Dailies, remaining 1-2 weekly, wrath, couple rares. Thursday, dailies, some rares (outlier day). Friday, dailies and other hunt. Sunday/Monday same as Thursday. Thur/Sun/Mon only days you really need to grind for rares, and it's never close to 15. You underestimate how much the dailies give.

You overestimate how much time people have, I want to play the actual game too you know, not just login to do chores and logout

[czarek]

I just skip this part of content. Ok just a maw for souls nothin else. Conduit? Dunno they drop everywhere not focused on this. Got 200ilvl for bis already.

[Malkiah]

and you have to be in your covenant to use it so back and forth and back and forth... wtf...

there's an obscenely stupid technical reason for this.

the game determines your next conduit when you get an item that gives you a conduit, be it the upgrader item or one of the covenant calling bags.
what this means in-game is that if you get multiple conduit-dropping sources at once (for example having 3x covenant callings up, finishing them all, then completing the quest and having 3 bags in your inventory to be opened) you'll get the same conduit from all of them, even if you open them one at a time and add the conduit before opening the next one.

i've confirmed this multiple times on recent alts that just hit 60 - immediately go out and do the three callings, come back, turn in all three quests and get 3 reward bags, open all 3 at once and get 3x of the same conduit.
then on another alt who hit 60 i got all 3 callings done, turned in the quests and had 3 bags in my inventory, opened just one and got a conduit and added it, then opened the next one and got a duplicate of the conduit i'd just gotten.

so basically they made it so you have to trudge back and forth because they coded the conduit-granting system in an incredibly stupid way and instead of changing how conduits are determined, they made it so you can't fuck yourself by getting multiples of the same conduit through ve'nari by requiring you to turn one in (thus changing the next conduit outcome) before buying another.