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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    People continue to ignore the crucial factor of "luck" alongside the hard work. Because like, poor folks are generally some of the hardest working folks I've ever known. And they're still poor.
    There is no such thing. You don't need to work hard but smart. If 7 billion people can do what you can do and there isn't much demand for it, no one is gonna pay you well for your work.

    I used to work in the IT field before going freelance and there was always demand for that sort of work, even shortage with employers competing for best programmers. Absolutely no luck involved and we got to be lazy as hell, sleep till noon or even skip days at times as long as we mostly met the deadlines. I assume it's the same for doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers and other skilled professionals (although I guess most don't get to be as lazy but get still paid well).

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I think the large majority of people have a pessimism bias but I guess we'll just have to wait and see who is right. Covid is certainly throwing a shade on life but we're finding more and more solutions so hopefully all the restrictions will be gone by 2022.

    I'm certainly not a "planner" though because the future is unpredictable in principle and the past can't tell us the future ahead of time. So there's no way of knowing exactly how long it will take to complete a new task. Thus there cannot ever truly be a "plan" for any of the hardest problems.
    There's also no fallacy of using examples of the past to predict the future.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    There is no such thing. You don't need to work hard but smart. If 7 billion people can do what you can do and there isn't much demand for it, no one is gonna pay you well for your work.

    I used to work in the IT field before going freelance and there was always demand for that sort of work, even shortage with employers competing for best programmers. Absolutely no luck involved and we got to be lazy as hell, sleep till noon or even skip days at times as long as we mostly met the deadlines. I assume it's the same for doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers and other skilled professionals (although I guess most don't get to be as lazy but get still paid well).
    I work as an assistant nurse and the pay isn't really good. Someone working in a factory makes more, far more.

  4. #104
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    There's also no fallacy of using examples of the past to predict the future.
    It's called an inductive fallacy. When you're predicting the future of society you should base your predictions on explanations and not historical examples.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-02-04 at 02:59 AM.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    It's called an inductive fallacy. When you're predicting the future of society you should base your predictions on explanations and not historical examples.
    That's just rationalizing lazy thinking and lazy work to justify making the same mistakes.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    This is problematic.
    yeah well kids are problematic.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    It's called an inductive fallacy. When you're predicting the future of society you should base your predictions on explanations and not historical examples.
    What’s the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What’s the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning?
    Inductive reasoning is when you gather a bunch of observations and draw a conclusion/theory from those observations. Deductive is the opposite basically; you look at a theory/conclusion and work on proofing/testing the conclusion/theory by looking at the observations and generalizations that it is based on.

    I don't know if your question was sincere or not but I answered it anyway because the internet is forever.

    Edit: Typically you need both by the way. Most surveys and in particular research over a long duration uses both Inductive and Deductive methods to develop (inductive) and proof (deductive) the conclusion. That guy you quoted is wrong, historical examples are inclusive of well-reasoned conclusions. It's just they are rarely only historical observations that make up a conclusion; because the data or historical context can change or be faulty. If the reasoning is sound, it works front to back and vice-versa; inductively and deductively the conclusion ought to hold if sound. Which can also be multiple conclusions; or new conclusions that arise based on scrutiny.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2021-02-04 at 03:32 AM.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't know if your question was sincere or not but I answered it anyway because the internet is forever.
    Yeah, I have google...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's just rationalizing lazy thinking and lazy work to justify making the same mistakes.
    I think the issue would expose it self, if they had to explain if an experiment having the same result today, as it did 1000 years ago... is a historical reference in predicting it will happen again tomorrow.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #110
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's just rationalizing lazy thinking and lazy work to justify making the same mistakes.
    No it's the exact opposite. Anyone can look at historical examples and find patterns that can be projected into the future. It's lazy and it doesn't require critical thinking. However finding an explanation of historical examples takes a lot more work but is wholly superior because it tells you why and how things work. If you can't explain history then you'll still be liable to make the same mistakes even if you have a mountain of historical data.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-02-04 at 03:54 AM.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  11. #111
    I grew up poor too.
    However, the things you list are not an indication of poor.
    Mine is more like no health insurance and drive very old car.

    eating fried bologna sandwiches and hot dog macaroni dish, shopping with FOOD STAMPS no no not those EBT Cards
    I never had food stamps and EBT Cards, but you are not supposed to eat at a restaurant.

    wearing a handful of cloths during the week, washing cloths by hand, shopping for 2 for 1 cheap crappy shoes
    You buy the shoes a little bit more expensive ($40). The real leather last many years.

    As for the entertainment, use gaming as an example, there are plenty of F2P games, or $10 AAA games.

    As for having kids, it is the other way around in this world.
    The rich people have less kids. The poor has more.
    For example, tigers only have 1 or 2.
    The ants and cockroachs are everywhere.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    I grew up poor too.
    However, the things you list are not an indication of poor.
    Mine is more like no health insurance and drive very old car.

    eating fried bologna sandwiches and hot dog macaroni dish, shopping with FOOD STAMPS no no not those EBT Cards
    I never had food stamps and EBT Cards, but you are not supposed to eat at a restaurant.

    wearing a handful of cloths during the week, washing cloths by hand, shopping for 2 for 1 cheap crappy shoes
    You buy the shoes a little bit more expensive ($40). The real leather last many years.

    As for the entertainment, use gaming as an example, there are plenty of F2P games, or $10 AAA games.

    As for having kids, it is the other way around in this world.
    The rich people have less kids. The poor has more.
    For example, tigers only have 1 or 2.
    The ants and cockroachs are everywhere.
    I don't think you know what dirt poor means.

    1. you pretty much have to use food assistance of some sort, or you don't get enough to eat. even with assistance, you may not get enough to eat.
    2. budgets are so tight, there is NO room to save for a better pair of shoes. the ones you have, are falling apart, you need to replace them NOW or go barefoot (which tends to be not an option). you do not have enough money for better pair of shoes now, so you buy what you can afford... and the cycle continues.
    3. no health insurance, sure but... not being able to afford ANY car. walking everywhere. because walking is free but it also takes a lot more time, so you don't have as much time to rest, cook, look for a new job, study for a better job, etc. video games require your own computer. you can go to a library and use theirs... but those computers have limited use and you are probably using them things other then gaming. library IS a good source of free entertainment... if you have time and energy enough left for it.

    the biggest truth I have personaly learned about poverty is that its a catch 22. damned if you do, damned if you don't. climbing out of being dirt poor is a Sisyphus burden all too often. you are at all times one emergency away from losing whatever progress you may have made, and you are lucky if you are only set back to where you started.

  13. #113
    only ever having one haircut, because mam does it.

  14. #114
    Begging strangers for money, food, or other handouts is hard work.

    So, respect the street hustle.

  15. #115
    That by desiring little, I can be rich.

  16. #116
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    That by desiring little, I can be rich.
    That doesn’t make any sense... I think you are going for...

    “We Are All In The Gutter But Some Of Us Are Looking At The Stars” – Oscar Wilde.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That doesn’t make any sense... I think you are going for...

    “We Are All In The Gutter But Some Of Us Are Looking At The Stars” – Oscar Wilde.
    No, that's just sad. Aspiring to be something you will not be.

    Instead you should be content with what you have. Do you really need another iPad or smartphone?

  18. #118
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    No, that's just sad. Aspiring to be something you will not be.

    Instead you should be content with what you have. Do you really need another iPad or smartphone?
    Dude... he means literal stars... not celebrities...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Dude... he means literal stars... not celebrities...
    Yes, he is looking up. Very good. (Or bad, such as in the case I described.)

  20. #120
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Yes, he is looking up. Very good. (Or bad, such as in the case I described.)
    Probably a waste of time... but, what isn’t...

    Have you ever seen a chandelier? Now pretend the night sky is not covered in light pollution, so you can actually see the stars at night. Is that evocative... at all?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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