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  1. #41
    Because WoW ceased having any real RPG elements a long time ago, and became pretty much all about an endless cycle of gearing up and then replacing it all. It's a seasonal gear model with pretty forgettable individual gear pieces.

    The actual story content is short. You have no meaningful choices with respect to the storyline. It's not like other RPGs where the choices you make for your character actually effect things down the road.

    WoW is an MMO, but it's getting really far from that RPG root.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneiac View Post
    This game isn't about your friends, though. This game is about taking it seriously enough that you do the hardest content no matter what it takes (transferring, etc), lasting friendships and other elements be damned. /s

  2. #42
    I think it is an overlooked thing to say "I just play WoW to get loot". If you're playing something for the end goal then you're missing the journey, which is arguably more important to some people.

    However, some of the drop % is actually ridiculous. I ran Halls + Mists to get my Head + Neck upgraded. I ran both for a collected total of 40 times before I got what I needed (and I had to win a roll for it). 40, times. If we include the time to find a team ~10min, the average run time of like 30min, that's 40min per attempt 40 times, almost 27 hours of playing the same two dungeons. Thankfully, I'm a hardcore player (as you can tell) but imagine a casual doing 27hrs of dungeons and never getting a reward? Simply saying "Well you should enjoy just experiencing the dungeon" is a pretty bad response.

    I do agree the complaining about drop rates is a bit too much, but it is justified. The idea of saying people are overlooking the journey is understated, but it shouldn't be used as something to cover up the issue of low drop rates.

  3. #43
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    I also have a 184 ilvl trinket, a couple 200 ilvl pieces. But I sit at 213 overall. Because of vault 226 pieces. So yeah, it's possible to still have low to very low ilvl pieces and trade.

    On topic, gear matters to direct enjoyment. For example, half my raiding grp has bad gear because they don't do mythic+ nor pvp. At one point we hit a wall, like Sludgefist. Then it seems like we're stagnating or even regressing. The geared players start feeling like they are carrying dead weight and wasting their 3 hrs a raid not progressing at all. So nobody has fun anymore. Ppl stop showing up for raids, disinteres rising.
    Gear ensures progression and no progression is no fun to anyone - this is why it's an issue.
    That's not an issue of raid loot not dropping, that's an issue of some people making an effort to gear in M+ and PVP while others didnt. In other words, that's not a game issue, it's a people issue. Raids where people have different expectations always run into issues.

  4. #44
    Personally, I play for collectables.

    So gear sometimes helps in getting current and recent ones (looking at you, twisting corridors....) but to me gear isn't the goal.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    More and more I see forum posts complaining about loot.

    While I understand that rewards and progress are important, it feels like people just play for them. Do you actually enjoy the content or just do it for the rewards?

    Honestly I mostly play for the content, don't really care about loot and have a more "o cool, something extra" mentality. I try and do Denathrius a few times per week even though he doesn't drop any upgrades, but I genuinely like the fight.

    "I have to do XYZ content for gear"
    vs
    "I want to do XYZ content because I like it"
    Every boss could be a target dummy in a completely white room and i would still be happy as long as it gives loot..

    Mechanics, Challange and ”Difficulty” is more of a nuicance just there to prolong your gametime than fun.
    Last edited by Nalam the Venom; 2021-02-05 at 06:07 PM.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagie View Post
    WoW is still a RPG and you progress in WoW over gear.
    No Gear = No Progress.
    Especially at the beginn of a Addon the game feels stall and the gameplay stays boring since you lack stats that make your class playable.
    I killed over 50 Bosses in HC and Normal and most of my Gear goes to my Guild m8s or i have to wear it because of the Itemlevel and i still run around with 184-200 iLvL Gear.
    Yeah I don't believe you on this one - feel free to prove me wrong, but until you do, I'm calling lies on this one.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JemiS View Post
    Because WoW ceased having any real RPG elements a long time ago, and became pretty much all about an endless cycle of gearing up and then replacing it all
    Ah yes, the game was a lot better before it released and we started replacing our gear.

  8. #48
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JemiS View Post
    Because WoW ceased having any real RPG elements a long time ago, and became pretty much all about an endless cycle of gearing up and then replacing it all. It's a seasonal gear model with pretty forgettable individual gear pieces.

    The actual story content is short. You have no meaningful choices with respect to the storyline. It's not like other RPGs where the choices you make for your character actually effect things down the road.

    WoW is an MMO, but it's getting really far from that RPG root.
    B-b-b-b-but Muh Meaningful Choices™, aka covenants
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Ah yes, the game was a lot better before it released and we started replacing our gear.
    More about the pace and magnitude.

    In Vanilla, gear drops were low but you kept the same gear for a long time- it was meaningful.

    In Wrath and BC, it was still worthwhile to run older raids for gear. A past raid was not instantly obsolete when the new one was released.

    Now? The gearing cycle is a few months. It makes gear forgettable and much less meaningful. Castle Nathria will be eventually dead when the next raid releases. Dungeons will drop better gear for no reason at all. It's a season model, rather than a progressive RPG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    B-b-b-b-but Muh Meaningful Choices™, aka covenants
    Pretty much.

    And once the expansion is over, it might as well not have existed. No choice we make for our character will matter long term to their development.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneiac View Post
    This game isn't about your friends, though. This game is about taking it seriously enough that you do the hardest content no matter what it takes (transferring, etc), lasting friendships and other elements be damned. /s

  10. #50
    This is actually something I recently realized about WoW in relation to myself ... I'm mostly playing out of inertia because I've found the content isn't intrinsically enjoyable to me any longer. Without some reward (preferably cosmetic) I just don't have fun with WoW anymore and I don't know how that happened. But Legion was the last time I truly enjoyed playing the game for the game's sake and not for what I could get out of it.

    I finally started looking at other games and have found some where I just enjoy the gameplay for itself and not for rewards. I still play WoW some, but like I said it's mostly out of inertia and not too much time invested any longer.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  11. #51
    I realized I'd been mostly playing because of inertia and because it was "free" since I had millions of gold sitting around.

    But when I was logging in a couple of days a month or less, didn't seem worth it anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneiac View Post
    This game isn't about your friends, though. This game is about taking it seriously enough that you do the hardest content no matter what it takes (transferring, etc), lasting friendships and other elements be damned. /s

  12. #52
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    This is actually something I recently realized about WoW in relation to myself ... I'm mostly playing out of inertia because I've found the content isn't intrinsically enjoyable to me any longer. Without some reward (preferably cosmetic) I just don't have fun with WoW anymore and I don't know how that happened. But Legion was the last time I truly enjoyed playing the game for the game's sake and not for what I could get out of it.

    I finally started looking at other games and have found some where I just enjoy the gameplay for itself and not for rewards. I still play WoW some, but like I said it's mostly out of inertia and not too much time invested any longer.
    I'm getting around to this point as well I think. Show up for raid and then play other games maybe or once things open up again take up other pursuits. Blizzard is so lucky theirs a pandemic.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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