Content and Rewards

[Ragnarohk]

More and more I see forum posts complaining about loot.

While I understand that rewards and progress are important, it feels like people just play for them. Do you actually enjoy the content or just do it for the rewards?

Honestly I mostly play for the content, don't really care about loot and have a more "o cool, something extra" mentality. I try and do Denathrius a few times per week even though he doesn't drop any upgrades, but I genuinely like the fight.

"I have to do XYZ content for gear"
vs
"I want to do XYZ content because I like it"

[Miyagie]

WoW is still a RPG and you progress in WoW over gear.
No Gear = No Progress.
Especially at the beginn of a Addon the game feels stall and the gameplay stays boring since you lack stats that make your class playable.
I killed over 50 Bosses in HC and Normal and most of my Gear goes to my Guild m8s or i have to wear it because of the Itemlevel and i still run around with 184-200 iLvL Gear.

[Caerrona]

WoW is still a RPG and you progress in WoW over gear.
No Gear = No Progress.
Especially at the beginn of a Addon the game feels stall and the gameplay stays boring since you lack stats that make your class playable.
I killed over 50 Bosses in HC and Normal and most of my Gear goes to my Guild m8s or i have to wear it because of the Itemlevel and i still run around with 184-200 iLvL Gear.

So you give heroic and normal loot away (200 and 213) which means you have atleast 200-213s on to be able to trade them... but you are wearing 184s... i call mega bullshit.

@op for content 100%, all gear does is make it so you can do higher content. The people complaining don't do anything worth the reward they want. They want 226s for lfr.

[czarek]

I do like content. Im runing m+ with guildies. Our goal is to make +15 achi. Actually on timed 13-14keys 15 is just around the corner. I do really like it. Im runing raids also but mostly with pugs on normal difficulty just because i like them. Raids were always be great.

[Kaver]

WoW is still a RPG and you progress in WoW over gear.

The problem is that players want to progress in gear without having to progress in content. They want better gear without having to do more challenging content and that is simply not how the game works. If you want to progress in gear you also have to progress in content. You cant just sit on your a$$ and expect gear to drop down from the heaven.

[GnomeEU]

We just complain that pvp gives twice the amount of gear that pve does.
I did raid and m15 for many weeks now. Yet someone who does pvp to 1800 gets the same gear in half the time.

[Unlimited Power]

I'm at a point gearwise where there's exactly 2 rewards I could use from heroic Castle Nathria, and both come from Denathrius. There's very little if anything I can even use from m+ end of dungeon chests, so I'm more or less limited to whatever I can get from the vault there.

As for pvp? Never really cared for it, but it can be fun with a dedicated group of friends. Unfortunately most of mine already quit, so that's not gonna happen. As for mythic raiding, I've kept track of my guild's progression through mythic CN, and it's far more wiping than I care to do for progression.

I'm probably at a point where I'm geared well enough for the content I care to do. Currently the most reliable source of upgrades would definitely be pvp, but I'm far too jaded to pug much of anything in WoW, especially pvp which I already find frustrating at the best of times. A valor vendor and/or valor point upgrade system for PvE gear would nevertheless keep me motivated to keep working towards gear upgrades and would simultaneously serve as a soft nerf to PvE content over time.

[Ragnarohk]

I'm at a point gearwise where there's exactly 2 rewards I could use from heroic Castle Nathria, and both come from Denathrius. There's very little if anything I can even use from m+ end of dungeon chests, so I'm more or less limited to whatever I can get from the vault there.

So here comes the question. Do you enjoy the content enough to play it even though you won't get meaningful rewards?

Heroic Nathria offers no loot upgrades for you, do you still run it for fun?

In my case it's yes. I do the content because I enjoy it even though it might not offer upgrades

[VinceVega]

More and more I see forum posts complaining about loot.

While I understand that rewards and progress are important, it feels like people just play for them. Do you actually enjoy the content or just do it for the rewards?

Honestly I mostly play for the content, don't really care about loot and have a more "o cool, something extra" mentality. I try and do Denathrius a few times per week even though he doesn't drop any upgrades, but I genuinely like the fight.

"I have to do XYZ content for gear"
vs
"I want to do XYZ content because I like it"

The problem is, that people what to be finished with gear progression earlier.
With TF/WF it never stopped. There was always the possibiliy of a better piece.

No you can actually be finished at somepoint. And you will be. We need next to nothing from heroic anymore. We will start to progess into mythic now with a new loot table.
Loot is fine in the amount it drops right now imho.
Sure there might be a week i don't get an upgrade. And the further along the gearing path i am it gets more and more difficult to get an upgrade. But my raid can trade nearly everything now. Because if one person is unlucky another is lucky and at some point it cancelles each other out and everyone is geared.
For people who only do PuGs that is difficult. But i don't think the game should be balanced around people who don't care about building a group of players to play with more than once.

If you only PuG you make a trade: A less restrictive time management vs. more consistent loot. Your choice. Can't have both

[Razion]

They didn't adjust Dungeon lengths to be shorter to accommodate for less loot.

Even for people who don't care about loot, they still need loot to get into groups.

People can't even play for the sake of doing the activity they want to do right now because they're blocked from doing so. They can't even get their foot in the damn door and when they can it isn't enough to get them in the door the next time - unlike before.

[Miyagie]

So you give heroic and normal loot away (200 and 213) which means you have atleast 200-213s on to be able to trade them... but you are wearing 184s... i call mega bullshit.

@op for content 100%, all gear does is make it so you can do higher content. The people complaining don't do anything worth the reward they want. They want 226s for lfr.

You know we have 14-15 Item Slots?
Also the Vault and the 235 Legendary is a thing.
I still have a 184 Trinket and a 200 and 184 Ring since i never saw a good tank trinket drop, weapon drops are also very rare i got my 2 Weapons atm over the Vault.

[froschhure]

What content??

- - - Updated - - -

My content was grinding gear, which I will not do while m+ reward is lower than heroic raiding
On top of that, you get less loot while not in time but not more loot while cutting in time.
No bonusloot and no forging.
But two x 6 months sub packs in less than 6 month period. Pay them I surely won’t

[Resheph]

WoW is still a RPG and you progress in WoW over gear.

No I don't. You might, but I don't.

99% of wow is not about gear, and it's perfectly fine to enjoy yourself with that. If you want to frustrate yourself about a few ilevel point every week so you can do the same mythic and raid treadmill over and then more power to you, it's your time and money. But don't make the mistake thinking that is the be all and end all of the game or even an essential part of a RPG, it's clear you do not know what that is.

[Ragnarohk]

What content??

- - - Updated - - -

My content was grinding gear

This is the topic of the post. There is content (8 Dungeons, 1 Raid, World Content/Story, Torghast, PvP).

Do you do the content for fun? For example running normal/heroic Nathria even though you don't need gear from there? Do you do Torghast multiple times per week because you enjoy it? etc.

Or do you only do content that rewards useful gear and catalogue the content more as a "chore"?

[WowIsDead64]

More and more I see forum posts complaining about loot.

While I understand that rewards and progress are important, it feels like people just play for them. Do you actually enjoy the content or just do it for the rewards?

Honestly I mostly play for the content, don't really care about loot and have a more "o cool, something extra" mentality. I try and do Denathrius a few times per week even though he doesn't drop any upgrades, but I genuinely like the fight.

"I have to do XYZ content for gear"
vs
"I want to do XYZ content because I like it"

There are several motivations to play games. Problem with them - they last for different amounts of time. Some fade pretty fast and some last longer. And "play for content" is more applicable to solo-games. Unfortunately content itself can't keep players playing same game for weeks, months and years. There should be something more. And RPG games have such thing. It's based on compulsive behavior. It's about getting "new" rewards for doing exactly the same things again, again and again.

Personally for me game is mix of "content" and "rewards". And, I guess, it's true for majority of playerbase. I.e. I like to do fun content and get good rewards for it. If content itself isn't good - I start to "struggle", burn out and stop doing it (or may be even quit game). If content lacks rewards, I start to feel, that I'm wasting my time. And I can stop doing content, even if it's good.

Example: some old content. It's good, but I don't have motivation to do it, because all rewards aren't there anymore.

[Miyagie]

No I don't. You might, but I don't.

99% of wow is not about gear, and it's perfectly fine to enjoy yourself with that. If you want to frustrate yourself about a few ilevel point every week so you can do the same mythic and raid treadmill over and then more power to you, it's your time and money. But don't make the mistake thinking that is the be all and end all of the game or even an essential part of a RPG, it's clear you do not know what that is.

We cant make real choices in the game and the story is written on a level of a 12 years old fan fiction so the journey is for the most not this part of a RPG.

[Loveliest]

You know we have 14-15 Item Slots?
Also the Vault and the 235 Legendary is a thing.
I still have a 184 Trinket and a 200 and 184 Ring since i never saw a good tank trinket drop, weapon drops are also very rare i got my 2 Weapons atm over the Vault.

I also have a 184 ilvl trinket, a couple 200 ilvl pieces. But I sit at 213 overall. Because of vault 226 pieces. So yeah, it's possible to still have low to very low ilvl pieces and trade.

On topic, gear matters to direct enjoyment. For example, half my raiding grp has bad gear because they don't do mythic+ nor pvp. At one point we hit a wall, like Sludgefist. Then it seems like we're stagnating or even regressing. The geared players start feeling like they are carrying dead weight and wasting their 3 hrs a raid not progressing at all. So nobody has fun anymore. Ppl stop showing up for raids, disinteres rising.
Gear ensures progression and no progression is no fun to anyone - this is why it's an issue.

[Unlimited Power]

So here comes the question. Do you enjoy the content enough to play it even though you won't get meaningful rewards?

Heroic Nathria offers no loot upgrades for you, do you still run it for fun?

In my case it's yes. I do the content because I enjoy it even though it might not offer upgrades

When I couldn't use any gear in normal CN on my main and my guild was still running it, I joined on my alt. When there's barely anything I can get gearwise on my main in heroic CN, I'm likely gonna keep running it, but again, on my alt that can actually use the gear. Castle Nathria is fun, but I'm not gonna keep running it on my main "just 'cause".

My goal was to get Curve on my main and complete the skip quest. I've accomplished those goals, so I'm effectively done with hc CN on my main in my book.

[Caerrona]

You know we have 14-15 Item Slots?
Also the Vault and the 235 Legendary is a thing.
I still have a 184 Trinket and a 200 and 184 Ring since i never saw a good tank trinket drop, weapon drops are also very rare i got my 2 Weapons atm over the Vault.

Link your armory, i do not believe you have done keys and 50+ bosses in castle and have 184s on.

- - - Updated - - -

I also have a 184 ilvl trinket, a couple 200 ilvl pieces. But I sit at 213 overall. Because of vault 226 pieces. So yeah, it's possible to still have low to very low ilvl pieces and trade.

On topic, gear matters to direct enjoyment. For example, half my raiding grp has bad gear because they don't do mythic+ nor pvp. At one point we hit a wall, like Sludgefist. Then it seems like we're stagnating or even regressing. The geared players start feeling like they are carrying dead weight and wasting their 3 hrs a raid not progressing at all. So nobody has fun anymore. Ppl stop showing up for raids, disinteres rising.
Gear ensures progression and no progression is no fun to anyone - this is why it's an issue.

Ok

/10chars

[Squigglyo]

Last season, I could do mythic+ to progress in mythic+.

Each level of mythic+ gave me the gear I needed to get higher, with the odd heroic raid for a trinket.


This season, I have geared up outside of mythic+ with PVP and Covenant gear. Mythic6 and below drop nothing for me, and the odds of any piece has been cut in half from last season.

Last season, I could run dungeon after dungeon and realistically gear up.
This season, realisticaly, I have to do double that.

The gear I get from mythic+ dungeons doesnt scale with the difficulty I am signing up for.
By the time Ive cleared all of them +10, I would likely still be in half mythic+6/7 gear.
Where last season, by the time I cleared that far, I was in good enough gear to progress further.