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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Maybe if you were in a nation with a UBI or some kind where the workers could collectively tell them to screw off, but that isn't the case. So long as people need work and we aren't at 100% employment, people will need jobs and they will be able to exploit that.

    This isn't about individuals exercising their rights, this is about giving companies the rights to setup towns where they have the power to curtail yours for their own benefit. We literally have historical examples of abuse from this.
    The part where you tell them to screw off, is when you don't go there in the first place.

    It's that easy.

    There are other companies to work for, there are other jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    There are other companies to work for, there are other jobs.
    Where does one find these infinite jobs, locally? Or the infinite funds to just move around the country all the time, yo?

    I need me some of this shit.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The part where you tell them to screw off, is when you don't go there in the first place.

    It's that easy.

    There are other companies to work for, there are other jobs.
    Easier said than done when you have people desperate for work and a way to support themselves and potentially children. You are being WAY too short sighted on this on how the world works and how this can and WILL be abused if allowed to pass. Company towns have been a part of our history before and were removed for good reason.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    "People" aren't "freely" doing anything. That's basically my point.

    But your self-righteous arrogance and complete ignorance about reality makes you blind to that.

    This "company mini-state" thing is basically the opposite of freedom. But your An-Cap idiocy promotes the idiotic idea of "Yes you can work in Factoryland for slave wages or you can choose to go die destitute and starving."

    If the choice is "Do the thing or risk death." then it is the definition of a false choice. "Death" is not a viable alternative. Like, it's literally the opposite of the word "viable". That's not "freedom" in any way, shape or form.
    Yes, they are. If they do literally nothing, they choose to not participate in it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You keep talking about uninhabited land...does that make it special or something?
    It makes your point utterly fucking absurd.

    Nobody is forced to go there. Nobody. Since it is uninhabited land, nobody is being pushed into it.

    The complain that you'd be out of a job if you didn't go, is also absurd... because that happens all the time, where businesses simply move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, they are. If they do literally nothing, they choose to not participate in it.
    Again, a choice where one option is, "death and/or suffering" isn't much of a choice, dude.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Where does one find these infinite jobs, locally? Or the infinite funds to just move around the country all the time, yo?

    I need me some of this shit.
    Literally the rest of the fucking country.

    So, do you really want to argue that a company isn't allowed to relocate?

    By all means... do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Easier said than done when you have people desperate for work and a way to support themselves and potentially children. You are being WAY too short sighted on this on how the world works and how this can and WILL be abused if allowed to pass. Company towns have been a part of our history before and were removed for good reason.
    It's done every single day, when other businesses move, or close shop.

    Every. Single. Day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  7. #147
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, a choice where one option is, "death and/or suffering" isn't much of a choice, dude.
    I've noticed a serious trend among libertarians, who enshrine "duress" as a natural force that should be accepted as a normal part of job negotiations, while simultaneously ignoring that said duress even exists whenever it inconveniently demonstrates the inhumanity at the core of their ideological outlook.

  8. #148
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, they are. If they do literally nothing, they choose to not participate in it.
    "Death" is not "non participation". And not a valid counterargument against anything at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    "That's my style; I like to kick 'em when they're down!"
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, a choice where one option is, "death and/or suffering" isn't much of a choice, dude.
    Or... just don't go, and get a new job.

    That's like saying the only choice if a company is going to relocate or go bankrupt, is death/suffering.

    Have you ever worked for a company that moved, or went out of business? How did you not die!!!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I've noticed a serious trend among libertarians, who enshrine "duress" as a natural force that should be accepted as a normal part of job negotiations, while simultaneously ignoring that said duress even exists whenever it inconveniently demonstrates the inhumanity at the core of their ideological outlook.
    This is bullshit, businesses move and/or close down all the time.

    It is a normal part of having a job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    "Death" is not "non participation". And not a valid counterargument against anything at all.
    No death is necessary, just don't fucking go.

    Say I live in... California. The company I work for has decided to do this, and wants to relocate there. I decide i don't want to fucking do that, because it sounds sketchy. So, I don't do it, and I get a new job.

    It's no different than a company saying they are going to go out of business.

    It's no different than a company relocating to Austin, Texas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's done every single day, when other businesses move, or close shop.

    Every. Single. Day.
    Again, you are being very shortsighted here.

    When those companies closed shop, people went bankrupt and lost their homes many times, they became desperate for work and so on. If you think that a huge number of those workers will be there by choice, I have a bridge to sell you. As I have said before, you need only to look at our own history so show the flaws and abuse in what you are supporting.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Or... just don't go, and get a new job.
    That's working out swimmingly in like, Appalachia where people lost jobs, are broke, and can't afford to move anywhere that there are jobs.

    I mean, how do you square that? Is it just their tough fuckin luck for continuing to elect politicians that lie to them and promise to bring coal back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That's like saying the only choice if a company is going to relocate or go bankrupt, is death/suffering.
    For some, it functionally is. Hope the government safety net, which IIRC you dislike on principle, will keep them going. People don't just like, magically have tons of money that lets them move across the country from one minimum wage job to the next dude.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Again, you are being very shortsighted here.

    When those companies closed shop, people went bankrupt and lost their homes many times, they became desperate for work and so on. If you think that a huge number of those workers will be there by choice, I have a bridge to sell you. As I have said before, you need only to look at our own history so show the flaws and abuse in what you are supporting.
    Yes, shit happens. Should we demand that no company ever be able to move, or go bankrupt?

    Of course not.

    They will all be there by choice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's working out swimmingly in like, Appalachia where people lost jobs, are broke, and can't afford to move anywhere that there are jobs.

    I mean, how do you square that? Is it just their tough fuckin luck for continuing to elect politicians that lie to them and promise to bring coal back?



    For some, it functionally is. Hope the government safety net, which IIRC you dislike on principle, will keep them going. People don't just like, magically have tons of money that lets them move across the country from one minimum wage job to the next dude.
    People in Appalachia were too fucking lazy to learn a new trade, and refused to actually move to find work, when their industry dried up.

    That's on them.

    Companies are going to go out of business, they will relocate. Are we going to ban these things? Fuck no.

    Also, you don't need to relocate, you already live somewhere where there are jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  13. #153
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    This is bullshit, businesses move and/or close down all the time.

    It is a normal part of having a job.
    A business closing down is the equivalent of a person dying, in the analogy you're drawing.

    Yeah, people die all the time. Applauding your economic system for fostering such deaths as a normal part of practice, however, is monstrous.

    Also, businesses don't move to new cities "all the time". Almost never. That would involve shutting down a successful business in one city, shipping all the components of said business to the new city, and then starting up new operations in an entirely new city without your old market niche present, building up from near scratch. A business is far more likely to expand to that new city, but that's not a move, analogous to what we're talking about. It's the equivalent of being promoted in your job to a position that requires travel, but doesn't change where you live.

    There's also the possibility of a failed business attempt in one city being attempted as another startup in another city, but I'm pretty sure that's not the argument for your position that you were thinking of.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Again, you are being very shortsighted here.

    When those companies closed shop, people went bankrupt and lost their homes many times, they became desperate for work and so on. If you think that a huge number of those workers will be there by choice, I have a bridge to sell you. As I have said before, you need only to look at our own history so show the flaws and abuse in what you are supporting.
    "I'll take, 'What happened to Detroit?' for $1,000, Alex."

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...t-decline.html
    @Machismo, seriously, open a fucking history book.

  15. #155
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No death is necessary, just don't fucking go.

    Say I live in... California. The company I work for has decided to do this, and wants to relocate there. I decide i don't want to fucking do that, because it sounds sketchy. So, I don't do it, and I get a new job.

    It's no different than a company saying they are going to go out of business.

    It's no different than a company relocating to Austin, Texas.
    Except a company relocating to Austin doesn't mean you're being literally ruled by corporate overlords.

    For someone who advocates against corporatism's you seem to be very happily jacking off to the idea of a corporation having it's own country.

    Also, your assumption fails much like Republicans on the idea that you can "just get another job". We have this thing called UNEMPLOYMENT, which means there are more people than jobs. You are by no means guaranteed a job after leaving one. Especially if you are the sort who is working in a factory the likes of which would take advantage of this new law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    "That's my style; I like to kick 'em when they're down!"
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No death is necessary, just don't fucking go.
    You must have some privileged life if you think that is even an option to a huge portion of the population.

    You have never watched someone who joined the armed services just for a paycheck, you have never seen someone move away from their home and their family to go to another state JUST to support themselves and not burden others even when they wanted to stay with the ones they cared for. You honestly have no clue about this stuff and has you supporting policies that would do far more damage than any amount of good it could ever hope for.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    A business closing down is the equivalent of a person dying, in the analogy you're drawing.

    Yeah, people die all the time. Applauding your economic system for fostering such deaths as a normal part of practice, however, is monstrous.

    Also, businesses don't move to new cities "all the time". Almost never. That would involve shutting down a successful business in one city, shipping all the components of said business to the new city, and then starting up new operations in an entirely new city without your old market niche present, building up from near scratch. A business is far more likely to expand to that new city, but that's not a move, analogous to what we're talking about. It's the equivalent of being promoted in your job to a position that requires travel, but doesn't change where you live.

    There's also the possibility of a failed business attempt in one city being attempted as another startup in another city, but I'm pretty sure that's not the argument for your position that you were thinking of.
    Nobody needs to die, that is not my analogy. A business going bankrupt means people need to find new work. A business relocating, for any reason, means people either choose to follow, or they choose to find new work. This happens all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    You must have some privileged life if you think that is even an option to a huge portion of the population.
    To add more to this, @Machismo - https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-p...h-savings.html

    Bruh, moving costs a lot more than $1,000, and like, a crapton of Americans can't even afford the $1,000.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "I'll take, 'What happened to Detroit?' for $1,000, Alex."

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...t-decline.html
    @Machismo, seriously, open a fucking history book.
    Detroit went to shit, because it relied too heavily on a single industry. That's what happens.

    I get that the idea of self determination and voluntaryism pisses you people off, but this is downright adorable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Except a company relocating to Austin doesn't mean you're being literally ruled by corporate overlords.

    For someone who advocates against corporatism's you seem to be very happily jacking off to the idea of a corporation having it's own country.

    Also, your assumption fails much like Republicans on the idea that you can "just get another job". We have this thing called UNEMPLOYMENT, which means there are more people than jobs. You are by no means guaranteed a job after leaving one. Especially if you are the sort who is working in a factory the likes of which would take advantage of this new law.
    It means you are offered a choice. Nobody is forcing you to go.

    Nobody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, shit happens. Should we demand that no company ever be able to move, or go bankrupt?

    Of course not.

    They will all be there by choice.
    Yeah, the same choice the newly friend slaves had when they "Decided" to go back to the plantations they used to work on for jobs. The choice of take whatever job you can get, turn to crime, become someone who uses extensive welfare just to stay put or potentially die when the magical job fairy doesn't create the jobs around you and you actually need money to survive.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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