If they bring back valour points...maybe

[Alroxas]

"Forcing" people to pvp is good, healthy for the game. The more people doing BGs and arena, the more chances to balance things around plus the shorter the queues.

Nope. And a clear case can be seen back in the MoP legendary cloak questline where PvE players HAD TO PvP to make progress on the cloak.

You try doing that PvP as Alliance or heck even War Mode in open world as Alliance on say a server like Mal'Ganis US and report back on how that's "healthy".

[Glorious Leader]

Oh okay. So I just need to take at face value the fact that your way of thinking will be shared by millions of people?

No you need to fuck off with arguments using populism because they don't even work in your favor. Millions of people used the valor vendor as well in tbc, wotlk and cata and will probably use this one as well. If they were so fucking in love with boss loot those systems wouldn't have seen wide spread use. How fucking selfish of you to insist they were wrong.

The fact that you can't make a coherent argument to defend your position is really all the proof anyone should need.

[TheFirstOnes]

Brilliant. I think you can solve world hunger with this logic too: "Just don't be hungry."

I don't really get it. What's so bad about having Valor points? That gives players a lot more motivation to do PVE content.

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And, it gives reason to do M+, outside of the whole "HURR GEARING CATCH UP" shit that was dumb in BFA, and got negated in SL (Both were 2 dumb extremes btw).

[kaminaris]

They are not valor points, name is the same but it works completely different. MoP VP was simply a gear tax. While those new something points are actually gear upgrades.

But well, it still doesn't fix weekly bingo lottery, came in waaaay too late and is too weak. People still won't be running more than threshold for weekly tickets.

[Relapses]

No you need to fuck off with arguments using populism because they don't even work in your favor. Millions of people used the valor vendor as well in tbc, wotlk and cata and will probably use this one as well. If they were so fucking in love with boss loot those systems wouldn't have seen wide spread use. How fucking selfish of you to insist they were wrong.

The fact that you can't make a coherent argument to defend your position is really all the proof anyone should need.

Bwahahahaha -- so your argument really is that the the expansion was popular therefore the loot system was popular. As if VP and deterministic loot systems were the only fucking thing that held the game together. I'm sorry dude. That is absolutely fucking hilarious. This argument is so inconceivanly lacking in any amount of critical thinking that it barely justifies a response. I'll leave you with this: You're wrong.

Bye bye now.

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I don't really get it. What's so bad about having Valor points? That gives players a lot more motivation to do PVE content.

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And, it gives reason to do M+, outside of the whole "HURR GEARING CATCH UP" shit that was dumb in BFA, and got negated in SL (Both were 2 dumb extremes btw).

I support Blizzard's compromise for VP on the PTR even though I personally don't think such a move was necessary. The guy I quoted wants all the gear on vendors so he can play Shopping Cart Simulator 2021 when gearing his toons. This is bad.

[Lei]

Nope. And a clear case can be seen back in the MoP legendary cloak questline where PvE players HAD TO PvP to make progress on the cloak.

You try doing that PvP as Alliance or heck even War Mode in open world as Alliance on say a server like Mal'Ganis US and report back on how that's "healthy".

Not against your argument, just an addition:
Having to win 2 BGs (especially in mop era) is not even comparable to anything we have (or had recently) these days (Blood of the Enemy). And fascinating how players were up in arms in mop against it, but in BfA it turned into "lol, you want everything for free? Just do a couple of bgs and you can get it, lol!" "Be happy to participate in multiple playstyles in your favorite game!".

Ugh.

[Henako]

Its not its really not. Like aside from the fact that its entirely perceptual, you can ignore the valor system entirely and still be excited about drops.

It has LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE for any player.

I've seen you advocate that players simply ignore systems for progression if they don't like them, or don't find them fulfilling. I just want you to understand how unrealistic that is. Ignoring a source of gear like VP is not the same as ignoring sockets.

[Glorious Leader]

Bwahahahaha -- so your argument really is that the the expansion was popular therefore the loot system was popular. As if VP and deterministic loot systems were the only fucking thing that held the game together. I'm sorry dude. That is absolutely fucking hilarious. This argument is so inconceivanly lacking in any amount of critical thinking that it barely justifies a response. I'll leave you with this: You're wrong.

Bye bye now.

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I support Blizzard's compromise for VP on the PTR even though I personally don't think such a move was necessary. The guy I quoted wants all the gear on vendors so he can play Shopping Cart Simulator 2021 when gearing his toons. This is bad.

No.. my argument with specific regards to you is that you can't accuse me of having no concern for millions of other players while simultaneously ignoring the fact that those same millions of users were using vp systems in previous actions. If your going to argue from popularity at least have a position that isn't so easy to undermine.

And you keep saying bye bye as if thats cute but you keep responding at least have the balls to actually mean it

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I've seen you advocate that players simply ignore systems for progression if they don't like them, or don't find them fulfilling. I just want you to understand how unrealistic that is. Ignoring a source of gear like VP is not the same as ignoring sockets.

Its very easy its called practicing self control and not doing the things you don't want to do. I'm sure you do this all the time in real-life. In any event people have managed to do this in game as well because as many people whove complained about pvp gear being to good have ignored it as well. I for one did.

[TheFirstOnes]

Bwahahahaha -- so your argument really is that the the expansion was popular therefore the loot system was popular. As if VP and deterministic loot systems were the only fucking thing that held the game together. I'm sorry dude. That is absolutely fucking hilarious. This argument is so inconceivanly lacking in any amount of critical thinking that it barely justifies a response. I'll leave you with this: You're wrong.

Bye bye now.

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I support Blizzard's compromise for VP on the PTR even though I personally don't think such a move was necessary. The guy I quoted wants all the gear on vendors so he can play Shopping Cart Simulator 2021 when gearing his toons. This is bad.

Yeah, I don't agree with him either. I like PVP Vendors and all, but PVE Vendors won't really do it. Killing bosses for gear is perfect, as it is. I think Valor is fine, personally. Gives M+ Players a goal to strive for. Now all they have to do is give us badges (Which they kinda did with Weapons, Shields, and Offhands), as well as higher gear drops from bosses. Instead of 1 piece of loot throughout an entire raid, maybe give players 3-4 pieces of loot (3 minimum).

[Swnem]

Why are you people so update?
Haven´t logged in for a nearly 2 months, after the 2 first week of Shadowlands.
I am 196ilvl, most people around me are 200, and raiders are 210 or more.

Pretty fair, it is only the first patch so there is not much gear. This is how it SHOUD always be. Gear is meant to be more than rare, it is "epic". Be happy you already have a given away legendary at max level with BIS power to it lol.


"Forcing" people to pvp is good, healthy for the game. The more people doing BGs and arena, the more chances to balance things around plus the shorter the queues.

Stop moaning, having top gear in a week is... not fun. Work for it.

Lol... healthy for the game? But not for me, it isn't. It's the most frustrating experience i can have in this game. PvP in WoW sucks. Everyone gets blow up in 2 globals.

I don't care about ilvl. I care about bad luck protection. Forcing me to PvP is forcing me to leave the game. Maybe not that healthy for the game...

[TheWorkingTitle]

Why not? For expansions we've had raid gear being bis PvP gear. I don't PvP and I probably never will again. I'm happy that the PvP guys are finally being looked after. Something tells me that you aren't very good at PvP otherwise you would've just taken the bus gear and been happy it was "handed" to you. For most people, the PvP system only gets you gear that is the same ilvl as campaign gear.

Because PvP is a mini game, the red headed step child of WoW. I'm no gladiator anymore, but I still do 1800+ in 2s and RBGs. I'm talking about Heroic/Mythic raiding being invalidated to a degree because of PvP gear, which should never happen. I reiterate, never.

[Echocho]

As usual they completely miss the mark. In the past you could get VP from lots of different sources, some more efficient than others and then after a week or two you could buy the piece you wanted.

This is what many people want, not some m+ gear upgrading system.

[DesoPL]

Not really and here's why: It just shifts blame from RNG to extreme time gating. Remember Valor had a weekly cap that you could earn. And at it's peak (MoP days?) you needed Valor to not only purchase gear but to also upgrade it.

Also upgrading gear... is a horrible system as it increased ilv inflation which was another headache. Yeah it might be more deterministic than say titanforging but the amount of time it took? Yuck, no thanks.

Titan Forging <-> Upgrading items choose one. xD