View Poll Results: Nerf burst by 50%

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  • Yes

    53 36.81%
  • No

    91 63.19%
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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicstynine View Post
    What. Seriously. What... Get gear, use your CD's and learn how to position yourself.

    It's finally getting somewhere with most people being geared.
    I'd rather have arena matches last 10 seconds because someone messed up and got bursted, than sitting there 12min waiting for someone that does a "big mistake" ore dampening finally taking over...

    Just because that Ret bursted you in a BG/World PVP doesn't mean that the state of PVP is "too bursty".
    People need to learn that PVP gets "balanced" around 3on3 Arena. Period. It has been like that, and will always be like that. And no, sub-2k Rating doesn't matter, I'm sorry.
    Like the 9-12 minute 3v3 arenas you see top people playing?
    Is that what you're referring to? Go watch some championship teams fighting in 3v3 and you'll see that a match rarely lasts shorter than 6-7 minutes.
    You're contradicting yourself so much I'm not even going to bother reading your replies.

  2. #22
    They should do it more like wotlk where burst goes down but consistent dmg goes up, so games dont go to dampen every time and people dont die in global as well

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmeebs View Post
    Do we really want another 4 years of dampening till aids games for everyone?
    Personally, I think what needs to happen is wars of attrition. Pvp needs to be like a raid encounter where the team that wins is the one that slowly whittles down their opponents and has micro optimizations in their rotations.

    Increase player health by huge amounts, make healers unable to fully keep up with the damage dealt and eventually run out of mana (as opposed to dampening, which just means eventually you can 1 shot someone), and make burst nearly impossible to 100-0 someone, even with CC setup.

    Till then, pvp will just be: wait for big CC ---> dump all offensive CDs and chain said CC ---> Did it die? ---> repeat until one side fucks up a defensive or dampening takes over.

    Boring.

  4. #24
    All legos and covenant spells and abilities need to be deactivated in PvP. The End.

  5. #25
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    not unless healers are going to get equally nerfed, otherwise it's back to 45 min dampening games and invincible healers... I don't want that, that shit was stupid.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Like the 9-12 minute 3v3 arenas you see top people playing?
    90% of a match being inconsequential easy braindead tests of "do you make a catastrophic failure and horribly misuse a defensive CD during our burst window" until you hit dampening where damage can just get to 1 shot territory isn't entertaining, and it's just "fake" length. If the good teams always end up running matches into high dampening just to get to ultra-high burst that healers can no longer keep up with, they might as well cut to that part every time.

    Like you said, how often do you actually see teams majorly fuck up to the point where they die that fast? Never. The matches are decided during CC chains and burst window trading, which accounts for maybe 10% of the time, meaning the other 90% of the time is irrelevant. They need to fix that instead of trying to make "big plays" the central focus of the game. They won't, because "big plays" is the central focus of e-sports, but it's not actually GOOD for pvp IMO.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    The seasons that are typically considered as the most fun/best/etc ... all had insane burst.

    The 2 questions that should be asked are imo (and if the answer is both times yes then there is no issue for me)

    1) does the burst require setup?

    2) is there a counter play?

    Instead of reworking all classes, something simple like a 5k to 10k flat HP buff in arena (not modified by priest buff) could already make a big difference.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxblow View Post
    I like the idea but that's easy to say. Do you have specific examples ?
    Yes, Frost DK.

    IBF > AMS > Summon Ghoul > Sacrifice > AMZ > Vial/channel > Lichborne > Deathcoil until RP dumped > Death Pact last so you don't mortal strike yourself. It's basically a rotation to stay alive. (There's actually 2 more buttons you could put in there, Transfusion and Death Strike, but they're so bad no one uses them)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Like the 9-12 minute 3v3 arenas you see top people playing?
    Is that what you're referring to? Go watch some championship teams fighting in 3v3 and you'll see that a match rarely lasts shorter than 6-7 minutes.
    You're contradicting yourself so much I'm not even going to bother reading your replies.
    6 minutes is already insanely too long imo.

    Dampening should only ever come into play as a cheese prevention mechanism for 2 tank/healer teams or dumb stuff like that. Actual games should be decided within 2-4 minutes, basically 2 major CD windows at most.

    Current game is fine in terms of burst. There are lots of other problems that need attention imo

  10. #30
    Nah, there's some specs that are a little bit overboard, but nothing needs anywhere close to a 50% nerf. Don't be silly.

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    What's the one button I press to survive as arms warrior in pvp?
    I have 29% versatility and still die in seconds, even if I pop my cds.

    Yet I cannot 3 shot anyone. So where is my burst?
    You switched subjects mid post. I mean, I don't even know why you're crying in the first place, you basically got buffed into relevance and Glad status.

    FDK got nerfed into obscurity, the only reason anyone even plays DK is because Unholy was allowed to have high numbers for once over at Blizzard HQ (almost as if it was planned.), the other 2 specs are absolutely a stigma in the community.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Make bursting take more skill. Give classes more defensive options aka unprune more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Joe who?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Make bursting take more skill.
    At some point, there is only so much "setup" a burst can take. This game is hotkey DDR with tab targeting. What, exactly, do you propose for increasing the skill required to burst? A series of quick-time events? 10 key combo leading up to successful burst where, if you mess up at any point during it, you have to start the sequence over again?

    Give classes more defensive options aka unprune more.
    This type of thing always ultimately ends up being the same question they need to ask every time it comes up (and I'm not sure they ever answer it and stick to that answer... but I digress):

    How do the devs WANT this arms race to play out? There are only 3 possibilities: 1) more bursts than defensives, 2) more defensives than bursts, 3) equal bursts and defensives.

    Beyond that, you have to ask yourself "how often do people who are even mildly competent at the game actually fuckup and horrendously misuse a cooldown?" The answer is "not much."

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    At some point, there is only so much "setup" a burst can take. This game is hotkey DDR with tab targeting. What, exactly, do you propose for increasing the skill required to burst?
    Burst combos which must be executed precisely and rapidly, otherwise you lose damage and/or delay your full burst.
    example: https://youtu.be/83kowG0XpjI?t=89

    Pooling resources or procs to pump out big damage abilities back to back
    example: https://youtu.be/iFVYKLfTTgE?t=165

    Nuance such as prioritizing abilities based on missile speed so that they all hit your target at the same time
    example: https://youtu.be/llRYizzYZ94?t=300

    Reverting skill-reducing changes in general such as combo points being on players instead of targets, DoTs on targets automatically responding to stat increasing buffs, DKs having one rune type.

    As for defensives... kiting needs to return. Using gap closers and gap creators intelligently must be a skill again. Most melee have double the amount of gapclosers needed to stick to most ranged.

    Warriors got everything they could want except second wind back. Other classes need the same treatment. Defensives and burst CDs doesn't have to be a 1:1 comparison, the ability to deal significant damage outside of CDs should return.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Joe who?

  15. #35
    I think without the old templates - the gear differences are simply making it clear how quickly we had power gains.

    I got to 60 on an alt a few days ago and had 26k HP after buying crafted gear at around 176ilv

    Then I have my priest who is 224 - I'm almost at 40k HP (on top of that, 26% Versatility)

    In addition - my alt needs their legendary - and to get proper gear/itemization.


    Arena seems to care little for ilv and purely goes by rating.
    Some newer PvPers who have geared via PvE, and "Bad" PvPers are in my way during the climb in ratings to improve my gear.

    They can have up to 50% more HP than me, have much greater damage/healing, and if they're stacking Vers(with trinks) they're going to be even sturdier.


    Bursting isn't an issue in late-game PvP because folks are geared, likely have adequate Vers and the experience to counter the plays.
    New folks are going to get absolutely smashed, though. And it makes the grind to reach that height even less appealing/fun when it feels like you're too far behind.

    I will likely be gearing my alt in PvE content first, as it is easier for now. Then push back into PvP with a more even playing field for ilv.

  16. #36
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Personally speaking, removing the 40% buff to Versa from the PvP trinkets should be enough imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Burst combos which must be executed precisely and rapidly, otherwise you lose damage and/or delay your full burst.
    example:
    we already have this, but also the difference between short window bursts of 1 second vs 2 seconds is essentially nothing from a gameplay standpoint (unless you have everything on GCDs, which is the exact opposite of my preferred style anyways). As well, it's really not hard to pull of 3- button combos like that.

    Also, globalling people is dumb design IMO.

    Pooling resources or procs to pump out big damage abilities back to back
    example
    Again, this already happens in current game. It's actually just part of proper play because it's literally the ONLY way you're going to get a kill before dampening (and you often won't still, even if you do everything correctly).

    Nuance such as prioritizing abilities based on missile speed so that they all hit your target at the same time
    example:
    This doesn't happen much, but I'd say it's really because there isn't much difference in effectiveness. That damage getting applied across 2 seconds vs 1 second isn't going to matter. Either the burst is uncontrollable and unmitigatable (which is bad design IMO) or the skill difference doesn't amount to payoffs that reflect that difference. I'd rather they push the envelope of skill in other areas that don't swing between "instagib" or "useless ineffective damage."

    Reverting skill-reducing changes in general such as combo points being on players instead of targets, DoTs on targets automatically responding to stat increasing buffs, DKs having one rune type.
    I'm all for this type of stuff, though.

    As for defensives... kiting needs to return. Using gap closers and gap creators intelligently must be a skill again. Most melee have double the amount of gapclosers needed to stick to most ranged.
    You say most melee, but ret and DKs definitely don't. The whole "slow lumbering melee that hits like a truck" thing never panned out in all the years they tried it, because CC is so fucking prevalent and there are little to no actual protections against it thanks to separate DRs, etc.

    I think what you want out of PVP and what I want out of PVP are very different, though. I essentially want pvp to be more like a boss raid fight. You have to play around some mechanics (based on whatever team comp you're facing) and the team that is better at all the smaller things is the one that slowly whittles down the other team to victory (across maybe 5 minutes).
    -------
    Edit: To be fair, I do absolutely think those types of micro-optimizations are exactly what would allow people to outshine each other in the war of attrition. Doing that slightly superior play 10 times across a raid boss adds up (obviously) so it would add up in long-format pvp DPS as well.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-02-09 at 12:31 AM.

  18. #38
    I just find these topics funny. Where were you in Legion and the templates feedback? This is what PvPers want. The one shots. They don't want balance.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Nope, it's fine now.
    it's pure cancer now., 2s speaking aka not fun.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-02-09 at 01:24 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I honestly think the damage of many specs needs to be tuned down by at least 50%. I'm not even kidding.

    There are too many broken specs to count, but I'm looking especially at classes with way too many CC and survival tools like Rogues and Paladins. Nobody should be able to have this much utilty AND so much burst damage. The amount of CC rogues have would completely justify gutting their damage by over 50%. They are able to stunlock you, but there's absolutely no drawback at all. Same with Paladins - how can it be that someone can just be immune to everything while bursting you down in seconds? And even if you get to damage them they'll just heal back to 100% with the press of a button.

    Every single class that has this much utilty should NOT be able to do so much damage. Either have utilty or damage, not both. It's absolutely ridiculous how unbalanced PvP is right now, and I'm pretty sure that even after a 50% damage nerf there would STILL be too much burst.
    If anything ramp it up and remove cc. Let's make these BGs and arenas brutal explosive carnage!

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