View Poll Results: Nerf burst by 50%

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  • Yes

    53 36.81%
  • No

    91 63.19%
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  1. #1

    Burst damage needs a 50% nerf

    I honestly think the damage of many specs needs to be tuned down by at least 50%. I'm not even kidding.

    There are too many broken specs to count, but I'm looking especially at classes with way too many CC and survival tools like Rogues and Paladins. Nobody should be able to have this much utilty AND so much burst damage. The amount of CC rogues have would completely justify gutting their damage by over 50%. They are able to stunlock you, but there's absolutely no drawback at all. Same with Paladins - how can it be that someone can just be immune to everything while bursting you down in seconds? And even if you get to damage them they'll just heal back to 100% with the press of a button.

    Every single class that has this much utilty should NOT be able to do so much damage. Either have utilty or damage, not both. It's absolutely ridiculous how unbalanced PvP is right now, and I'm pretty sure that even after a 50% damage nerf there would STILL be too much burst.

  2. #2
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Nope, it's fine now. Was a bit bursty the first weeks of SL. But now game allready tend to go into high dampening.
    Burst isn't a real issue, if you are often bursted down you are just outplayed by players better than you.

    But I'll admit the state of burstiness make Hpal pretty much mandatory in any comp. Which is a problem. but it's hard to balance without screwing the actual PVP state which a LOT of people like.
    Last edited by Ealyssa; 2021-02-07 at 03:00 AM.
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  3. #3
    The burst is where it needs to be.

    Do we really want another 4 years of dampening till aids games for everyone?

    you can live just fine if you have decent gear and rotate cooldowns properly. Even the biggest outliers (Mage Combust, Convoke, Ret Pally wings) are all manageable in real pvp (not 2v2 arena)

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    The burst doesn't bother me, class and game design revolving around it does, specifically, the GCD.

    Some classes have zero GCD bloat when they PVP and some have an insane amount that causes them to not be viable.

    Some classes if they want to survive, they press one button. Some classes if they want to survive need to press like 4-5 back to back, it's really imbalanced right now in terms of mechanical operation, which is why you're seeing nothing but war/pal/monk, nothing can compete with those classes defensive capabilities right now, it isn't just their burst, which is why people will tell you Warriors need PVE buffs.

    My vote would be: revisit the drawing board on the GCD and start making real efforts to knock out GCD bloat, not just lazy crap like changing one offensive cooldown in the entire kit (Unholy).
    Everything in the pvp talent box should be making it to where PVP is viable for that spec, there shouldn't be broken or useless pvp talents or things you look at and third guess and if they don't want to use the PVP talents to design around their mistakes they should just design the specs better in the first place.
    Last edited by msdos; 2021-02-07 at 03:24 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmeebs View Post
    The burst is where it needs to be.

    Do we really want another 4 years of dampening till aids games for everyone?

    you can live just fine if you have decent gear and rotate cooldowns properly. Even the biggest outliers (Mage Combust, Convoke, Ret Pally wings) are all manageable in real pvp (not 2v2 arena)
    Yeah okay. When I see 3k players get globaled. I’m sure they’re just bad though. /S

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    The burst doesn't bother me, class and game design revolving around it does, specifically, the GCD.

    Some classes have zero GCD bloat when they PVP and some have an insane amount that causes them to not be viable.

    Some classes if they want to survive, they press one button. Some classes if they want to survive need to press like 4-5 back to back, it's really imbalanced right now in terms of mechanical operation, which is why you're seeing nothing but war/pal/monk, nothing can compete with those classes defensive capabilities right now, it isn't just their burst, which is why people will tell you Warriors need PVE buffs.

    My vote would be: revisit the drawing board on the GCD and start making real efforts to knock out GCD bloat, not just lazy crap like changing one offensive cooldown in the entire kit (Unholy).
    Everything in the pvp talent box should be making it to where PVP is viable for that spec, there shouldn't be broken or useless pvp talents or things you look at and third guess and if they don't want to use the PVP talents to design around their mistakes they should just design the specs better in the first place.
    What's the one button I press to survive as arms warrior in pvp?
    I have 29% versatility and still die in seconds, even if I pop my cds.

    Yet I cannot 3 shot anyone. So where is my burst?

  7. #7
    No because then you just shift the problem to the survivability gulf. You have warriors being unkillable, rogues still dying in 3 seconds. Paladins unkillable, MW dying in 3 seconds. It would just result in a dampening meta full of warriors and aff locks.

    Big flat nerfs to specific areas are not smart. It's better to address problems within each spec but blizzard is too incompetent for that I feel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    What's the one button I press to survive as arms warrior in pvp?
    I have 29% versatility and still die in seconds, even if I pop my cds.

    Yet I cannot 3 shot anyone. So where is my burst?
    You can run around with passive 20% DR and still outdamage most classes. Warriors are one of the best classes in 3v3 because they don't have any weaknesses currently and intervene is really broken.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    The burst doesn't bother me, class and game design revolving around it does, specifically, the GCD.

    Some classes have zero GCD bloat when they PVP and some have an insane amount that causes them to not be viable.

    Some classes if they want to survive, they press one button. Some classes if they want to survive need to press like 4-5 back to back, it's really imbalanced right now in terms of mechanical operation, which is why you're seeing nothing but war/pal/monk, nothing can compete with those classes defensive capabilities right now, it isn't just their burst, which is why people will tell you Warriors need PVE buffs.

    My vote would be: revisit the drawing board on the GCD and start making real efforts to knock out GCD bloat, not just lazy crap like changing one offensive cooldown in the entire kit (Unholy).
    Everything in the pvp talent box should be making it to where PVP is viable for that spec, there shouldn't be broken or useless pvp talents or things you look at and third guess and if they don't want to use the PVP talents to design around their mistakes they should just design the specs better in the first place.
    what class are u playing? because as a ww monk i have to spam like i'm playing the piano to survive. we are squishy af.

  9. #9
    Yeah let's make games dampen harder than they already do, and take 20 steps back to BFA 'balancing'

    Learn to use your cds, and recognise other teams using theirs.

  10. #10
    People been 1 shotting since vanilla im confused why we expect anything else ?

  11. #11
    You clearly don't play high rated pvp. There is some specs that can do a bit too much burst, but small adjustments will be enough. Bursty specs can feel OP if they have better gear than you. With full 226 ilvl pvp gear warrior feels the most OP to me. Condemn is too strong and their defensiv toolkit is a bit too much. Nerf sub rogue is a meme, they got way too much nerfs the first week. They still do fine because fire mage is godtier, but their dmg alone is pretty weak lol.

  12. #12
    That would destroy the game.

    Even with burst most of my games go for at least 5 minutes, some of them hit the 8-9 minute mark. Imagine if burst was 50% weaker? Games would just go to 80% dampening and the only viable teams would be WW Monk/Aff and Warrior/Aff. Sounds like an absolutely horrible experience.

    Damage is actually in a great place right now, a couple classes need tweaks, but overall the pace of the game is really good.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I honestly think the damage of many specs needs to be tuned down by at least 50%. I'm not even kidding.

    There are too many broken specs to count, but I'm looking especially at classes with way too many CC and survival tools like Rogues and Paladins. Nobody should be able to have this much utilty AND so much burst damage. The amount of CC rogues have would completely justify gutting their damage by over 50%. They are able to stunlock you, but there's absolutely no drawback at all. Same with Paladins - how can it be that someone can just be immune to everything while bursting you down in seconds? And even if you get to damage them they'll just heal back to 100% with the press of a button.

    Every single class that has this much utilty should NOT be able to do so much damage. Either have utilty or damage, not both. It's absolutely ridiculous how unbalanced PvP is right now, and I'm pretty sure that even after a 50% damage nerf there would STILL be too much burst.
    Ah yes let's make fights that can only be ended by burst last forever instead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    What's the one button I press to survive as arms warrior in pvp?
    I have 29% versatility and still die in seconds, even if I pop my cds.

    Yet I cannot 3 shot anyone. So where is my burst?
    There is no way I am seeing a warrior complain about lack of focus damage. It it sthe twilight zone surely

  14. #14
    Everything in pvp needs to be tuned down... too much CC, too much dmg and bursts, too much healing etc etc... everything is cranked to 12.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I honestly think the damage of many specs needs to be tuned down by at least 50%. I'm not even kidding.

    There are too many broken specs to count, but I'm looking especially at classes with way too many CC and survival tools like Rogues and Paladins. Nobody should be able to have this much utilty AND so much burst damage. The amount of CC rogues have would completely justify gutting their damage by over 50%. They are able to stunlock you, but there's absolutely no drawback at all. Same with Paladins - how can it be that someone can just be immune to everything while bursting you down in seconds? And even if you get to damage them they'll just heal back to 100% with the press of a button.

    Every single class that has this much utilty should NOT be able to do so much damage. Either have utilty or damage, not both. It's absolutely ridiculous how unbalanced PvP is right now, and I'm pretty sure that even after a 50% damage nerf there would STILL be too much burst.
    From reading this, i can assume you clearly don't PVP much or you are just clueless. Would love to see you play Rogue with the 50% nerf you want. I bet you would have a good time!
    As a full geared Rogue myself, Shadowlands PvP is where it needs to be. Obviously there are some small adjustments that need to happen, but this you're talking about is justnonsense.

    Every class has its strengths and weaknesses.
    This is not League of Legends where you suport someone else to do the damage. Each class needs its independence.

    Come back to me when you play rogue for a good while at least above 2k to tell me it needs 50% nerf.
    Last edited by Revarwed; 2021-02-08 at 10:56 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KTM View Post
    what class are u playing? because as a ww monk i have to spam like i'm playing the piano to survive. we are squishy af.
    Might be squishy but that's a good tradeoff for doing literally 3k dps on 30% versatility players ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    I honestly think the damage of many specs needs to be tuned down by at least 50%. I'm not even kidding.

    There are too many broken specs to count, but I'm looking especially at classes with way too many CC and survival tools like Rogues and Paladins. Nobody should be able to have this much utilty AND so much burst damage. The amount of CC rogues have would completely justify gutting their damage by over 50%. They are able to stunlock you, but there's absolutely no drawback at all. Same with Paladins - how can it be that someone can just be immune to everything while bursting you down in seconds? And even if you get to damage them they'll just heal back to 100% with the press of a button.

    Every single class that has this much utilty should NOT be able to do so much damage. Either have utilty or damage, not both. It's absolutely ridiculous how unbalanced PvP is right now, and I'm pretty sure that even after a 50% damage nerf there would STILL be too much burst.
    Rogues/mage play around this burst windows. So you're okay with Monks/Warriors/DK just doing PVE rotation on players and doing 3k dps but having to survive one coordinated go (extremely harder to do btw) is too much?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    My vote would be: revisit the drawing board on the GCD and start making real efforts to knock out GCD bloat
    I like the idea but that's easy to say. Do you have specific examples ?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    What's the one button I press to survive as arms warrior in pvp?
    I have 29% versatility and still die in seconds, even if I pop my cds.

    Yet I cannot 3 shot anyone. So where is my burst?
    What. Seriously. What... Get gear, use your CD's and learn how to position yourself.

    It's finally getting somewhere with most people being geared.
    I'd rather have arena matches last 10 seconds because someone messed up and got bursted, than sitting there 12min waiting for someone that does a "big mistake" ore dampening finally taking over...

    Just because that Ret bursted you in a BG/World PVP doesn't mean that the state of PVP is "too bursty".
    People need to learn that PVP gets "balanced" around 3on3 Arena. Period. It has been like that, and will always be like that. And no, sub-2k Rating doesn't matter, I'm sorry.

  19. #19
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    if that'll allow healers to be nerfed - so be it. So fucking tired of looking at fucking ork shamans health go from 5% to 100% in a matter of two gcds
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  20. #20
    Some burst outliers sure need nerfing, but in general the game needs spiky dmg and healing to compensate for the lower amounts of cc you sit in compared to cata/mop. What I don't like is how so many defensive cd's don't feel impactful cause you die through them ridiculously fast anyway. Also some classes are really squishy and aren't compensated in any way compared to tanky classes with all the dmg and tools they could want.

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