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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Only if when you enrage on Mythic, you are forced to do it in Heroic.



    They don't have to be longer, they just have to allow you to try a specific level again and again... that's the bit you can't do.

    I'm fine doing 9s, but want to do 10s to get practice on the new affix... but I can't.
    If the idea is to be able to try again like in a raid, I assume you also want it to be like a raid then and a failed run (equivalent to a wipe) gives no loot and no great vault credit?

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    If the idea is to be able to try again like in a raid, I assume you also want it to be like a raid then and a failed run (equivalent to a wipe) gives no loot and no great vault credit?
    I'm pretty sure if you fail a boss in a raid, you still get the loot from the other bosses and still get vault credit for how far you got.

    But for M+ - a failed run doesn't give you any reward, it is only when you miss the timer you get a reward.

    What I want to be able to do is push myself to do the highest key I can do. For me that is under 15, but above 10... but this week I'm doing 8 or 9 keys, then next week 7 or 8 keys.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I'm pretty sure if you fail a boss in a raid, you still get the loot from the other bosses and still get vault credit for how far you got.

    But for M+ - a failed run doesn't give you any reward, it is only when you miss the timer you get a reward.

    What I want to be able to do is push myself to do the highest key I can do. For me that is under 15, but above 10... but this week I'm doing 8 or 9 keys, then next week 7 or 8 keys.
    If you can't time an 8 or 9 then your key will go down next week. How can you then say that you can do more than an 8 or 9?

    I mean it is very simple: If you time a 9 then it will turn in to a 10 and if you time a 10 it will turn in to an 11.
    How on earth can you say that you can do more than a M10 if you can't even time a 9???

  4. #304
    No. It would've been a total disaster. Like people wiping hundred of times because they lack gear/skill just to finish their weeklies.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    Personally, I think so. Removing the timer would do a lot of things. It would turn M+ into an actual ladder system instead of a race of "Who has the best meta". Even D3's rift system that has a timer is superior to Mythic +. Not only would it slow things down and turn it into more strategy then an aoe race fest, but it would also open the doors to more classes. Right now the meta is always who has the best utility and mobility. Warlock has amazing dmg especially at higher keys where the dots can tick, but garbage in M+ cause they don't bring enough to benefit the timer for example.

    Without the timer Blizzard would be able to hard tune the dngs that makes it easier to bring all specs/classes. Think of Torghast, no timer. You take your time, plan a strategy and go for it. You can bring any spec and class. M+ should be what Torghast is, it's supposed to be fun. if you really think about removing the timer could actually make it harder, right now they have to tune the dngs so people can clear them within time. Remove the timer and they could make harder pulls that prevent mass aoe and slows things down. Which opens up the dng to more specs/classes. It also brings more challenge so the "try hards" get what they want, and the those who don't play a desired class get what they want.
    There's no such thing as killing the meta. There's always going to be cutting edge specs which the top players play and people will follow. If there's a difficulty/problem, people will always choose the best solution they can. Right now the current meta favoring mage/boomie as DPS comes down to utility suited for this season's affixt. As such, I'd wager they're not chosen "for the timer" at all, quite the contrary, major advantage boomies bring into the keys is the treants for instance. People would still play boomies over warlocks whether there was a timer or not.

    Analogy to Torghast suffers a bit, it's practically solo content which doesn't scale indefinitely. Any competitive content has to have a different mindset when designing it as if the content fails to deliver for the cutting edge pushers, it will fail for the rest of the players as well. You cannot design a dungeon where you could spend hours or days performing your best run.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    If those people would have gone out honestly and said that they wanted easier content - as in non-timed - and that they would accept lesser rewards for the lesser effort/skill required then I would support them 100%.
    Here’s why this is so controversial: m+ requires massively more coordination than it did in Legion, and the rewards are roughly the same. So people who were used to playing in uncoordinated groups and clearing +15s are now failing to get there. No one likes to get to a new expansion and feel cut off from the level they were able to reach in the previous expansions. And this ramp up hasn’t been gradual, it’s been sudden and largely unexpected. A tank kiting/“pull big” meta means that pug groups who used to rely on tanks as the default interrupter/stunner now need to coordinate between each other in ways that they’re not prepared for.

    And what’s most interesting is pugs that fail usually don’t even know what went wrong, and aren’t learning. The curve got real steep real fast and for a lot of people who used to do +15 with ease it suddenly feels like an impenetrable wall.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Here’s why this is so controversial: m+ requires massively more coordination than it did in Legion, and the rewards are roughly the same. So people who were used to playing in uncoordinated groups and clearing +15s are now failing to get there. No one likes to get to a new expansion and feel cut off from the level they were able to reach in the previous expansions. And this ramp up hasn’t been gradual, it’s been sudden and largely unexpected. A tank kiting/“pull big” meta means that pug groups who used to rely on tanks as the default interrupter/stunner now need to coordinate between each other in ways that they’re not prepared for.

    And what’s most interesting is pugs that fail usually don’t even know what went wrong, and aren’t learning. The curve got real steep real fast and for a lot of people who used to do +15 with ease it suddenly feels like an impenetrable wall.
    Why did you skip over BFA which also was a step up in difficulty compared to Legion?

    Then SL over BFA.

    The only easy dip was once 8.3 was out for 5 months with the corruption vendor, basically the last few months of a 2 year expansion.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem with M+ has never been the timer or death penalties or anything like that.
    The problem with M+ is the same as with Torghast, there just isn't enough variety and fun in the affixes to make each week and dungeon feel like a separate experience people can look forward to.

    If Blizzard finally got the hang of M+ it would all be better.
    I think this is a really key point.
    I enjoy M+, I am not a super pro player and only got my KSM last week, it was definitely progression getting my experience (and IO score) up to the point where I was comfortable in 15 keys. I think its introduction in Legion is one the best things that's ever happened in the game, but too many of the affixes are just not fun at all.
    On the bright side, Prideful is one of the best seasonal affixes to date, so I give them credit for that

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