Would Mythic + be more enjoyable without a timer?

[Nargrom]

wow lacks intense gameplay, a timer gives you that, if you just want to kill bosses mindlessly with the bare minimum of effort go raid. m+ is just fine, by this point the vast majority is in the +10-13 range, the competent casuals work on their ksm, and the ones that actually put in the effort push higher than that.

elitist as it may sound, the timer just proves what good players can do in seconds, takes entire minutes for the casual to figure out, with the timers removal the casual would claim ''oh look we did that as well'' - only it took you 2hours longer Karen.

wow is a competitive mmorpg, for years there has been catering to the casuals cause the reality is they are the majority, they are the money.
leave this little competitive edge alone ffs.

/end rant

also, if you dont enjoy the timer or your cant possibly make the timer. then go lower and practice, but god forbid we put some work in the improvement of our gameplay

[Naville]

What's the pleasure of completing something if it's not challenging?

You can also choose to play the key and ignore the timer, spend some time to chat during the dungeon on a guild run (or even a PUG one you advertise as "not in time"), just as we did 15 years ago.

That's why the non-timed runs contribute to your vault (it rewards your participation to the game), while the achievements for title/mount require timed runs (because... It's an achievement).

Just choose your game mode.

[Spacewalrus2010]

I generally hate having a timer for an activity, but doubt this would resolve any community perception. It would just cause groups to leave as soon as a death happens, just like now.

Also would likely need to force group comp to be 3 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer. If not, I could see queues being a big issue at higher keys because the meta might just have more than one healer or something.

[JoakimB]

No. I enjoy the timer. Alot actually. Thats one thing Blizz did really good tbh.

[GnomeEU]

You could get around the "sit out the bloodlust debuff" problem by re-introducing a mechanic lost to the annals of history: respawning trash. If you take more than say, half an hour to get the next boss dead, you'll find the trash starts respawning behind you (and it wouldn't give trash percentage the second time around).

So there isn't a hard timer for the entire dungeon, but there is a soft-limit to how long you can take to clear it before the dungeon starts dropping hints that maybe you're not quite at that level yet.

That would be pretty cool actually.

Well I don't like the timer. Even I know almost every ability of every mob, that's just not the case for the avg Joe.
And its annoying that you can't even chill for a minute and explain something.

Blizzard said it's for guilds or premades only. But with all the nerfs etc. It's just as random as queuing for LFR or a random heroic dungeon just with better gear.
There are almost no one shot mechanics in +15 dungeons.

I don't know why at least 50% of the game for most people should be on a tight timer. It's just a grind, I barely fail any runs anymore. It's not like you need to be awesome to farm your weekly 14 with 220 gear.

[mojusk]

i would like if the key didnt go down a level if you complete it when time is up. it should only go down if you give up. and 1 up when in time ofc.

[Naville]

Well I don't like the timer. Even I know almost every ability of every mob, that's just not the case for the avg Joe.
And its annoying that you can't even chill for a minute and explain something.

Hopefully we play a modern game with a great community.

http://namlhur.nerim.net/mob-abilities.png

(It's QE Dungeon Tips addon).

[Engal]

Problem is not timer though. Toxicity can't be erased through gameplay fix, bad behavior should be punished by an in game system report.

[loras]

If Mythic + timer was replaced by something else, whether it was a set shared death pool, or just made it more difficult with more engaging affixes that arent just passive % increases. Do you think you would find it more enjoyable? Or is a timer the best possible solution to making 5 mans drop relevant gear without just handing it out.

I greatly dislike timers, and would much rather see changing side objectives to give bonus loot.

Like i.e. the deaths you mentioned, or killing some added encounter, etcetera.

[kranur]

I think it would, but without something in place of it like death count. While replacing the timer with death count will remove the rushing and skipping, it will still keep the absurd requirements, and in case of a wipe or two, will still cause groups to fall apart.

Just put a respawn timer to prevent extreme cooldown exploitation.

And if still bent to have timers, just bring it in the CM form, independent of M+ and without gear impact.

- - - Updated - - -

Problem is not timer though. Toxicity can't be erased through gameplay fix, bad behavior should be punished by an in game system report.

While true, it's thr gameplay enabling in the first place.

[Ludek]

Timer should still be there for extra loot / higher key increase / bragging rights but imo if you complete the dungeon, no matter the time - you should always get at least +1 to the key. (or get to choose if you want -1/stay at current level/+1)

For the top end players pushing for the rank it does not matter - only the timed runs will be added to the score.

For the casual crowd it also won't change much, all they want is gear - even if we assume they will be tryharding to get 15 cleared in 2h, it's not that viable option to gear up since the loot rates - the group will get 1 random item of a HC raid ilvl.

Even if the people will try to abuse the system, and wait for every CD before every pull - what does it changes?
Yes it can work on the trash, but you still have hard blockers in case of the bosses - if you need to be so desperate to wait for every CD, every time to clear a trash pack, I highly doubt you can down a boss on that difficulty (especially if its tyranical week) - same goes for raiding, if you do not have skill and gear, you won't kill a mythic boss no matter how much time you spend on it - numbers will prevent it.

[faunski]

You could get around the "sit out the bloodlust debuff" problem by re-introducing a mechanic lost to the annals of history: respawning trash. If you take more than say, half an hour to get the next boss dead, you'll find the trash starts respawning behind you (and it wouldn't give trash percentage the second time around).

So there isn't a hard timer for the entire dungeon, but there is a soft-limit to how long you can take to clear it before the dungeon starts dropping hints that maybe you're not quite at that level yet.

In what way is that not even worse? You'll wait for cooldowns again to kill the trash again, wasting even more time. It would completely eradicate the m+ scene at the top and it wouldn't solve any pugging issues.

Again, infinite scaling cannot be combined with unlimited time or you'll waste more time waiting rather than playing. It would have to be a completely different mode from the current m+.

[NihilSustinet]

If Mythic + timer was replaced by something else, whether it was a set shared death pool, or just made it more difficult with more engaging affixes that arent just passive % increases. Do you think you would find it more enjoyable? Or is a timer the best possible solution to making 5 mans drop relevant gear without just handing it out.

yup, for me at least. i have an anxiety disorder so the added stress of the timer really ruins the fun of m+ for me.

[Garretdejiko]

I don't know, but i'd enjoy them more without affixes. Some are infuriating, some act as a psychological barrier, people straight up avoid m+ just for the affix combo.

[druchii5]

Yes, for me personally, Mythic + would be far more enjoyable without a timer.

[capri sunset]

I'd like it, but it would need to be designed without the timer in mind. As it stands, you can't have challenging bosses because you have one or two shots at most before it's depleted, combined with their difficulty constantly changing based on the affixes and key level so it wouldn't be like a raid boss where you progress and figure out better ways to approach it and better cooldown timings.

If they did take that approach then the time it takes to complete is going up by a lot, which is the opposite of the appeal of m+ right?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Removing the timer won't remove or even soothe the toxicity of the players.

But it would likely extend the run times considerably, so no thanks. I'll keep the timer.

[Gourbaak]

it would be horribly boring to cc each mobs and wait for cd before each packs, no thanks mm+ are fine like they are now

[Aurora]

It would definitely be enjoyable for bosses as a sort of 5-man raid experience provided completion feels rewarding. It might actually be the sort of experience that mythic dungeons were originally intended for.

Trash packs in between would however be time consuming and pointless without the timer risk. I'd imagine groups would cc more and not spec into control or utility talents like treants.

Maybe ideally something like bosses at a tyrannical +15 level with m0 trash in between.

[leorana]

5 or less death +3?
What are you guys doing in there if 5 death are a huge success?

5 deaths is like a single wipe. You can wipe once and still 3 chest even with current m+ status.