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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post
    ...thx blizzard for ruined my game experiance with ruined my spec till ground...the sec ppls see which spec I play, got insta kicked from everything, even I am 215ilvl...and no, do not tell me it is ok to play something I do not like (other spec)...


    p.s. my guild stoped hc cn and step mythic raiding, for which I, due to rl obligations do not have time, but got insta kicked from pugs hc, even I am 215 ilvl, bcs of spec is so stupid...
    So since you started this thread, it's been established:

    - You're a liar
    - You're not as good a player as you suggest
    - You're not a good liar

    This is a teachable moment, life is all about the approach - if you hadn't started out as a victim, people would've been more willing to empathize. I mean, I also think less of you because of the way you type, but that's probably me being prejudicial.

    My advice to you OP, don't come off like an arrogant a-hole that attacks people who offer facts - like, you're an 300 io with a bought AoTC.

    Humility is usually a better approach.
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Has been well established that the 10/10 was a purchased run from the #3 guild in the world.
    Lmao I was just reading the first page, checked the logs then replied. Holy shit this thread is awesome starting from page 2. Awesome read.
    @Darchi name change is 10bucks. lmao. what a fucking shitshow for the op.

    That being said, I myself need to do something about my council and sludge logs.
    Last edited by Gref; 2021-02-09 at 12:16 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    Lmao I was just reading the first page, checked the logs then replied. Holy shit this thread is awesome starting from page 2. Awesome read.
    @Darchi name change is 10bucks. lmao. what a fucking shitshow for the op.

    That being said, I myself need to do something about my general and sludge logs.
    The messed up thing is that the entire premise for this thread was judging players by their performance, not their spec. The entire premise was flawed from the outset, and most level headed people started raises doubts on page one - does that happen? possibly, just queue for another group and move on. The lies and dishonesty were just the icing on the cake.

    Personally, I couldnt care any less about logs and R.io and the like, it doesnt impact me much if at all on a day to day basis. Maybe if someone is a purely "solo" player with no friends in game, no guild, no community - nothing; then maybe it would be more of an issue.

    Two ways of presenting this "issue";

    1. I have been kicked from a few pugs recently - I think my performance is perfectly acceptable, and here are some logs. My gut is telling me its simply because i am Assassination spec - how likely is this?

    2. I have been instantly kicked from pugs because of my spec - i refuse to accept it is because of my performance, because i have cleared the raid on heroic, so it cant be that. I am a far above average player, and will not acknowledge that this could possibly be because of my performance or attitude - its 100% because of my spec and no one will change my mind. Signed, Above average raider.

    The outcome is likely to be quite different for the most part, especially when the truth actually comes out.

  4. #184
    @arkanon you are right about the approaches but seriously this was an epic thread.
    Should be pinned to the top with glitters, neon lights etc saying do not make a thread like this. lmao ffs. it was great read with a morning tea.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    @arkanon you are right about the approaches but seriously this was an epic thread.
    Should be pinned to the top with glitters, neon lights etc saying do not make a thread like this. lmao ffs. it was great read with a morning tea.
    This is the second such thread in a week. The last one was someone swearing black and blue they had killed 500 bosses (exaggeration) and had zero loot drop and was stuck at 190 ilvl. Problem is, they linked their armory showing a 190 ilvl, but, turns out they had completed keys at 215 ilvl, and had simple equipped low ilvl gear to try and prove a point. This person argued for PAGES that they were stuck at 190 ilvl and the loot system was broken - only for it to be proven they were 215......

    I honestly dont understand why people would come here, lie, and spin a narrative based on those lies, for page after page. But i agree, its pretty bloody funny.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    *looks at all the longbois running around the world*

    Yes, very low... that gold income and all.

    :P

    Does AOTC make you a skilled player? It's a set of words as much as raider.io is a set of numbers.

    I'm not making any bad judgments but this belief system that a certain number equates to a certain outcome is ludicrous at best. I've played with a group of people who are in their 1500s and I outperformed them so shouldn't I have their score? Why do I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to arbitrarily please a group of sanctimonious people that think a bigger number = better outcome when you roll the dice with every outcome anyways.

    I've mainly stuck to AOTC content for a few expansions now mainly because I just don't want to aim higher but I can outperform people who have Cutting Edge in their background... does that make them better than me because?

    This all goes back to the Gearscore days which sucked back then and they still suck now because it's a belief system based on probability.
    Despite all your efforts articulating your point, you yourself still haven't acknowledged that anonymous applications can always only be judged by the data they come with. IO is flawed, but it's the best we have. It is exceptionally unreasonable to ask the playerbase to put "giving people that don't have the right credentials a chance" ahead of "inviting one of the other 35 people who applied that meet, and even surpass, what's required of them". It's still statistically more reliable that the more qualified players will make the run go smoother. That's a hard fact of objective reality. Can the run still go south? Yes. But the chance of it happening is much smaller than if you were to blindly invite people. When dealing with accomplished people In any setting, ego becomes a bigger point of contention than the skill required for the respective task, and id rather get shit done and deal with some guys ego than fail 4 keys in a row with a bunch of lovable, quiet strangers and effectively waste 2/12 hours of my gametime that I dedicated to character progression.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    I kept experiencing your problem every tier. I loved to play frost, I've been forced to play fire or arcane for certain events. It's been hard. Been learning new specs I really didn't feel like playing and farming gear by wasting time to be more effective or to please others so I know how you feel. In the long run it's jus not worth it so play whatever you like. Also, it's better to start your own group or get in friend's group instead of dealing with pugs.
    I'm in the same situation, but I continue to play frost mage

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    Do you though? What if they were carried by their guild... bought it...

    It's still probability regardless of how you spruce it up or paint the picture.
    Yes, you statistically have a good picture.

    Find someone with a rio score of 1400+ with 30+ completed +15 keys and they will most likely perform sufficiently in a +15 key. Nothing guaranteed but it’s extremely likely.

  9. #189
    I prefer to judge numbers, they don't lie, they can't cheat, they are the eternal truth to everything. Everything else is subjective.
    Skipped through some logs, the numbers tell me it's a player issue.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I prefer to judge numbers, they don't lie, they can't cheat, they are the eternal truth to everything. Everything else is subjective.
    Skipped through some logs, the numbers tell me it's a player issue.
    Since there's no like button on this website, I would like to directly provide my appreciation.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Despite all your efforts articulating your point, you yourself still haven't acknowledged that anonymous applications can always only be judged by the data they come with.
    I'm acknowledging that the score means relatively nothing except for a belief system that people buy into in thinking that Person A is better than Person B when in reality it's still probability. That is the flawed part about these scores in any form.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    I'm acknowledging that the score means relatively nothing except for a belief system that people buy into in thinking that Person A is better than Person B when in reality it's still probability. That is the flawed part about these scores in any form.
    So... having an abundance of data to judge players by vs having no data at all and rolling the dice yields the same average result, you say? If so you should probably open up some old schoolbooks and reeducate yourself, because statistics would like to have a word with you.

    3 players sign up to your 15 DoS, same spec, same gear. One is 729IO and the other two are 1300 IO. One of the 1300 people has timed a total of 11 keys above 10, the other has timed every 15 multiple times. Who of these absolute strangers do you pick in order to make sure the run goes as smooth as possible? With IO making that decision is easy. Without it there's a 66.6% chance of your key getting tanked and your time being wasted.

  13. #193
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Personally I enjoy seeing people play non-fotm specs. Usually they are more enjoyable players than others.

    Though there are exceptions, obviously.
    I have a Demonology Lock. I love playing the spec. My DPS isn't great because I'm barely 170 on her. But I tried Afflic . . . ooof. I can't handle all the dots. Did a heroic Sanguine Depths, first half did like 1500 dps. Got fed up and went back to Demo and my DPS nearly doubled, both on bosses and on trash.

    I find people always do better on specs they're comfortable with, than with chasing FotM.

  14. #194
    These people just scream unintelligent to me because anyone who spends the time to think that people should be judging them on how well they actually play should have just as quickly realized that, much like any other application in the world, nobody has the time to actually test out every person that comes along and relying on credentials like raid logs, raid history, and other metrics like IO isn't elitist, it's just common sense.

    OP is one of thousands of applicants so obviously most groups aren't going to bring him along on the off chance that, despite having nothing tangible supporting his claims of skill, he might still be good. That OP couldn't put 2+2 together and realize something so straightforward and obvious also likely means that OP isn't very smart and probably isn't a very good player, it's a personal problem, not a problem with the system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    So... having an abundance of data to judge players by vs having no data at all and rolling the dice yields the same average result, you say? If so you should probably open up some old schoolbooks and reeducate yourself, because statistics would like to have a word with you.

    3 players sign up to your 15 DoS, same spec, same gear. One is 729IO and the other two are 1300 IO. One of the 1300 people has timed a total of 11 keys above 10, the other has timed every 15 multiple times. Who of these absolute strangers do you pick in order to make sure the run goes as smooth as possible? With IO making that decision is easy. Without it there's a 66.6% chance of your key getting tanked and your time being wasted.
    Where do you get the 66.6% chance part... and you are running data in a system that has human error and involvement which skews the data immensely. It still ends up being "Well, this could be better" and it probably will but every time you do a run the probability is up in the air. Like I said I've run with people with 1000+ who would even leave the group because of my low rating and when we do the dungeon I would outperform them all, they would die and the key would get tanked... but I have the low score.

    It's just a number with probability and people wanting to gamble based on the number.

  16. #196
    Made an account on here, just to reply to this..
    Stop crying and get better at your class, i main a BM hunter..If youre gonna insist on playing a gimped spec you need to be performing in the top 5-10%, no one is gonna have pity on you when the point of the game is to kill bosses and get loot. You dont want to be judged on your class but your performance is bad, and your io doesnt exist. So how is someone supposed to judge your performance fairly?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    Where do you get the 66.6% chance part... and you are running data in a system that has human error and involvement which skews the data immensely. It still ends up being "Well, this could be better" and it probably will but every time you do a run the probability is up in the air. Like I said I've run with people with 1000+ who would even leave the group because of my low rating and when we do the dungeon I would outperform them all, they would die and the key would get tanked... but I have the low score.

    It's just a number with probability and people wanting to gamble based on the number.
    The problem with this argument is that you value your own anecdotal and highly subjective evidence more than the objective discipline of analysing data with statistical tools.

    The 66.6% failure rate in my example is due to 2/3 apllicants for your 15 key being severely underqualified, and even boosted in one case. The 3rd person with a multitude of timed 15s is the safest bet in that scenario, which you wouldn't know if you don't check RIO. Therefore you have a 66.6% chance of inviting an objectively underqualified person to an arguably difficult 15 key, which is all it takes to kill a dungeon like 15+ DoS that already has a tough timer.

    Of course you can't ONLY look at score, as my example shows. But RIO and logs give you so much data that you 100% can make impactful decisions based on them. Your argument that it's all the same chance and all the other anecdotal blabla are uninformed and criminally unintelligent.

    If you can't see the benefit of having data vs not having data you can't be helped , sadly. I'll rest my case here.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Because if you're 10/10hc there is literally no reason why a pug would kick you other than looking for a ranged DD
    There really is. With cutting edge achieve, I could barely get my rogue alt with a proper ilvl into heroic Nya, and thats signing up with only a couple DPS already in the raid. I once sat in a raid for an hour for it to fill, to then be kicked before pull.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  19. #199
    Legendary! The One Percent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subrias View Post
    bitch plz... ive been complaining about "gear score" add-ons since they existed in wrath... not because i cant get into groups, but because people don't understand how the hell they work. its 1k+ io req's for +10s or requiring 210 ilvl average to get an invite to normal nathria. i mean.. common sense people.

    Keep complaining, no one in my group cares.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothyjean View Post
    *waits for your commentary on how I'm wrong because the math is in your favor because the higher their score the better chance you have of a positive outcome* :P
    You assume I care about convincing you. :P
    You're getting exactly what you deserve.

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