Do not judge spec, judge gameplay...

[Biomega]

"hey, what spec are you?"
"I play assassination - I can play sub as well, but not great and I prefer assassination"
"no worries, play assassination, its only heroic youll be fine"

Yeah, thats a totally far fetched and unrealistic conversation....I dont need any further information than that. Its honestly that simple - you make it sound like i would need to know their blood type and mothers maiden name. A 10 second conversation is all thats needed.

And what make you talk to them rather than other people?

Or are you saying that for a heroic PUG you interview EVERY SINGLE applicant? In which case, good on you, but that's unfeasible, unrealistic, and extremely uncommon. Which makes it A solution, to be sure, but not THE solution.

[arkanon]

And what make you talk to them rather than other people?

Or are you saying that for a heroic PUG you interview EVERY SINGLE applicant? In which case, good on you, but that's unfeasible, unrealistic, and extremely uncommon. Which makes it A solution, to be sure, but not THE solution.

Are you saying that you think asking a player who is joining your pug what spec they play is "unfeasible, unrealistic, and extremely uncommon"? What the hell kind of pugs do you run? "hey guys, we have 5 tanks and no healers because I didn't actually ask what spec anyone is, but it should be fine YOLO!"

Asking someone what bloody spec they are is not "an interview".

[Makabreska]

Are you saying that you think asking a player who is joining your pug what spec they play is "unfeasible, unrealistic, and extremely uncommon"? What the hell kind of pugs do you run? "hey guys, we have 5 tanks and no healers because I didn't actually ask what spec anyone is, but it should be fine YOLO!"

Asking someone what bloody spec they are is not "an interview".

I mean, roles are visible in LFG tool. But ye, I was asked for a spec while playing mage several times in BfA.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I'm starting to feel bad for the author of this thread. Did he just remove his avatar? I completely understand everyone wants to have the best players in their groups, but sometimes it kinda excludes average people from the gameplay. It's maybe not a discrimination but something problematic. Imagine someone just wants to come back after so many years of not playing and experiences this. This might be demotivating. We are all quite ambitious, but sometimes it has been forgotten that games are supposed to be fun and because we like to spend time with people we care about rather than achieving a virtual property as this is the worst trap you can get into.

[arkanon]

I mean, roles are visible in LFG tool. But ye, I was asked for a spec while playing mage several times in BfA.

Right, and even if a group has 2 tanks, many tanks will still queue as tank, and many players select multiple roles when queuing. Im just stunned anyone would think that it is "unfeasible and uncommon" to ask what spec someone is playing.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm starting to feel bad for the author of this thread. Did he just remove his avatar? I completely understand everyone wants to have the best players in their groups, but sometimes it kinda excludes average people from the gameplay. It's maybe not a discrimination but something problematic. Imagine someone just wants to come back after so many years of not playing and experiences this. This might be demotivating. We are all quite ambitious, but sometimes it has been forgotten that games are supposed to be fun and because we like to spend time with people we care about rather than achieving a virtual property as this is the worst trap you can get into.

One thing to add with this - if someone's application looks too good to be true, it probably is. The number of times i have joined a heroic pug, only to see a player in a bunch of mythic gear, and thought "yeah, they are here for a particular item" only to be proven right when they leave immediately after a boss. Sometimes the best players are the ones who are a step below that and really need all the bosses, making them more likely to stay the entire run. That can obviously be a little difficult to ascertain when forming a group, but as a rule, as i said, if they look too good to be there, they probably are.

I formed a normal pug a while back to help a friend of a friend see the raid without the drama of LFR. Over half the applicants left because for whatever reason, they assumed it was heroic. I had to keep telling ppl before they joined "its normal, not heroic".

[Makabreska]

Last time I did dome serious, weekly pugging was in Emerald Nightmare. It's really easy to find a guild of like-minded individuals and dodge all that hassle.

[Dorothyjean]

If you look at the score and the number of completed keys above +15, then you statistically have a really good picture of how well a player can perform.

Do you though? What if they were carried by their guild... bought it...

It's still probability regardless of how you spruce it up or paint the picture.

[Makabreska]

Do you though? What if they were carried by their guild... bought it...

It's still probability regardless of how you spruce it up or paint the picture.

Of course the system is not flawless, but the possibility that someone bought many high key runs/got constantly boosted by guildies is very low.

[Dorothyjean]

Of course the system is not flawless, but the possibility that someone bought many high key runs/got constantly boosted by guildies is very low.

*looks at all the longbois running around the world*

Yes, very low... that gold income and all.

:P

Does AOTC make you a skilled player? It's a set of words as much as raider.io is a set of numbers.

I'm not making any bad judgments but this belief system that a certain number equates to a certain outcome is ludicrous at best. I've played with a group of people who are in their 1500s and I outperformed them so shouldn't I have their score? Why do I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to arbitrarily please a group of sanctimonious people that think a bigger number = better outcome when you roll the dice with every outcome anyways.

I've mainly stuck to AOTC content for a few expansions now mainly because I just don't want to aim higher but I can outperform people who have Cutting Edge in their background... does that make them better than me because?

This all goes back to the Gearscore days which sucked back then and they still suck now because it's a belief system based on probability.

[arkanon]

*looks at all the longbois running around the world*

Yes, very low... that gold income and all.

:P

Does AOTC make you a skilled player? It's a set of words as much as raider.io is a set of numbers.

I'm not making any bad judgments but this belief system that a certain number equates to a certain outcome is ludicrous at best. I've played with a group of people who are in their 1500s and I outperformed them so shouldn't I have their score? Why do I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to arbitrarily please a group of sanctimonious people that think a bigger number = better outcome when you roll the dice with every outcome anyways.

I've mainly stuck to AOTC content for a few expansions now mainly because I just don't want to aim higher but I can outperform people who have Cutting Edge in their background... does that make them better than me because?

This all goes back to the Gearscore days which sucked back then and they still suck now because it's a belief system based on probability.

Been said a thousand times before, but all systems that have and will exist are flawed. The only way to be certain of the ability of those you play with is to play with the same group of people consistently. It doesn't have to be a guild, it could be a community, a group of friends, or just a large friends list - w/e works.

[Makabreska]

*looks at all the longbois running around the world*

Yes, very low... that gold income and all.

:P

How many longbois? I see 1-3 in Oribos at any given time on Silvermoon EU. Also, people who spent 5 mil on mount tend to not have much more to spare. People in my guild who got it, got the money from the boosting, they weren't buying boosts themselves.

[Gref]

But 10/10 HC. What does M+ have to do with it?

if you are doing 2.5k dps on sire on hc, you are being carried by the rest of the team. Simple as that.
A team of people all doing 2.5k dps will inevitably wipe %100.

[arkanon]

if you are doing 2.5k dps on sire on hc, you are being carried by the rest of the team. Simple as that.
A team of people all doing 2.5k dps will inevitably wipe %100.

Has been well established that the 10/10 was a purchased run from the #3 guild in the world.

[kaelix1]

Even if let's say what OP said would have been the truth, the harsh reality is the same, as DPS if you fell behind with gear or IO you are in trouble, in the end, why would X take a 215 DPS with 300 IO which is zero M+ experience over a dude with 220+ 1200-1800 IO, when I do my keys the number of DPS I can choose from is overwhelming, have nothing to do with blizzard, it's simple, you are behind the curve, grind your stuff and people will not care your spec if you prove you are capable

[Zig Zug]

...thx blizzard for ruined my game experiance with ruined my spec till ground...the sec ppls see which spec I play, got insta kicked from everything, even I am 215ilvl...and no, do not tell me it is ok to play something I do not like (other spec)...


p.s. my guild stoped hc cn and step mythic raiding, for which I, due to rl obligations do not have time, but got insta kicked from pugs hc, even I am 215 ilvl, bcs of spec is so stupid...

So since you started this thread, it's been established:

- You're a liar
- You're not as good a player as you suggest
- You're not a good liar

This is a teachable moment, life is all about the approach - if you hadn't started out as a victim, people would've been more willing to empathize. I mean, I also think less of you because of the way you type, but that's probably me being prejudicial.

My advice to you OP, don't come off like an arrogant a-hole that attacks people who offer facts - like, you're an 300 io with a bought AoTC.

Humility is usually a better approach.

[Gref]

Has been well established that the 10/10 was a purchased run from the #3 guild in the world.

Lmao I was just reading the first page, checked the logs then replied. Holy shit this thread is awesome starting from page 2. Awesome read.
@Darchi name change is 10bucks. lmao. what a fucking shitshow for the op.

That being said, I myself need to do something about my council and sludge logs.

[arkanon]

Lmao I was just reading the first page, checked the logs then replied. Holy shit this thread is awesome starting from page 2. Awesome read.
@Darchi name change is 10bucks. lmao. what a fucking shitshow for the op.

That being said, I myself need to do something about my general and sludge logs.

The messed up thing is that the entire premise for this thread was judging players by their performance, not their spec. The entire premise was flawed from the outset, and most level headed people started raises doubts on page one - does that happen? possibly, just queue for another group and move on. The lies and dishonesty were just the icing on the cake.

Personally, I couldnt care any less about logs and R.io and the like, it doesnt impact me much if at all on a day to day basis. Maybe if someone is a purely "solo" player with no friends in game, no guild, no community - nothing; then maybe it would be more of an issue.

Two ways of presenting this "issue";

1. I have been kicked from a few pugs recently - I think my performance is perfectly acceptable, and here are some logs. My gut is telling me its simply because i am Assassination spec - how likely is this?

2. I have been instantly kicked from pugs because of my spec - i refuse to accept it is because of my performance, because i have cleared the raid on heroic, so it cant be that. I am a far above average player, and will not acknowledge that this could possibly be because of my performance or attitude - its 100% because of my spec and no one will change my mind. Signed, Above average raider.

The outcome is likely to be quite different for the most part, especially when the truth actually comes out.

[Gref]

@arkanon you are right about the approaches but seriously this was an epic thread.
Should be pinned to the top with glitters, neon lights etc saying do not make a thread like this. lmao ffs. it was great read with a morning tea.

[arkanon]

@arkanon you are right about the approaches but seriously this was an epic thread.
Should be pinned to the top with glitters, neon lights etc saying do not make a thread like this. lmao ffs. it was great read with a morning tea.

This is the second such thread in a week. The last one was someone swearing black and blue they had killed 500 bosses (exaggeration) and had zero loot drop and was stuck at 190 ilvl. Problem is, they linked their armory showing a 190 ilvl, but, turns out they had completed keys at 215 ilvl, and had simple equipped low ilvl gear to try and prove a point. This person argued for PAGES that they were stuck at 190 ilvl and the loot system was broken - only for it to be proven they were 215......

I honestly dont understand why people would come here, lie, and spin a narrative based on those lies, for page after page. But i agree, its pretty bloody funny.

[LazuOG]

*looks at all the longbois running around the world*

Yes, very low... that gold income and all.

:P

Does AOTC make you a skilled player? It's a set of words as much as raider.io is a set of numbers.

I'm not making any bad judgments but this belief system that a certain number equates to a certain outcome is ludicrous at best. I've played with a group of people who are in their 1500s and I outperformed them so shouldn't I have their score? Why do I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to arbitrarily please a group of sanctimonious people that think a bigger number = better outcome when you roll the dice with every outcome anyways.

I've mainly stuck to AOTC content for a few expansions now mainly because I just don't want to aim higher but I can outperform people who have Cutting Edge in their background... does that make them better than me because?

This all goes back to the Gearscore days which sucked back then and they still suck now because it's a belief system based on probability.

Despite all your efforts articulating your point, you yourself still haven't acknowledged that anonymous applications can always only be judged by the data they come with. IO is flawed, but it's the best we have. It is exceptionally unreasonable to ask the playerbase to put "giving people that don't have the right credentials a chance" ahead of "inviting one of the other 35 people who applied that meet, and even surpass, what's required of them". It's still statistically more reliable that the more qualified players will make the run go smoother. That's a hard fact of objective reality. Can the run still go south? Yes. But the chance of it happening is much smaller than if you were to blindly invite people. When dealing with accomplished people In any setting, ego becomes a bigger point of contention than the skill required for the respective task, and id rather get shit done and deal with some guys ego than fail 4 keys in a row with a bunch of lovable, quiet strangers and effectively waste 2/12 hours of my gametime that I dedicated to character progression.