Why do people expect a working product?

[Mysterymask]

well there was the ff14 thing. so broken and buggy games being rushed out isn't a western only thing. that said, that is the exception for eastern culture. and ff14 has gotten to a point where it is stealing more and more wow players every year because of how much blizz keep screwing up.

FF14 had a whole mess of problems beyond rushing it out the gate..and square took the biggest gamble and that magically paid off..If CDPR or Bethesda did that it likely wouldnt lf paid off

[aceperson]

FF14 had a whole mess of problems beyond rushing it out the gate..and square took the biggest gamble and that magically paid off..If CDPR or Bethesda did that it likely wouldnt lf paid off

well bethesda doesn't put a lot of effort into anything. CDPR was a different case when it came to witcher 3. we'll have to see if they fall on the follow up or not.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I don't.

It's why I usually play games 3 to 4 months after release. Typically by then a good round or two of bug fixes are in and wild imbalances are fixed. The game is often on sale. DLC that actually finishes the story or makes parts of the game bearable is out (and usually it with the on sale price of the main game is still less than the og 60). Over all it makes gaming enjoyable.

Just understand what the business is now. Alphas are internal tests to stand up betas usually. Just to make sure they are presentable. Betas are not testing they are hype builders where they plug in journalist at first to hype it then add streamers to explode exposure and anything anyone sees is wrong is "well its beta". Then release comes and what was beta testing before starts. Millions of people that perpurchased or blindly bought the game on hype now start reporting bugs and other problems and they get fixed. The company will usually do just enough to avoid lawsuits and mass refunds so they get things fixed up in a few months time. At least most the time. If not then you at least know that and don't buy it. If you didn't buy into the hype machine.

[Cosmic Janitor]

FF14 had a whole mess of problems beyond rushing it out the gate..and square took the biggest gamble and that magically paid off..If CDPR or Bethesda did that it likely wouldnt lf paid off

I mostly agree with that when it comes to FFXIV 1.0. There was a ton of conceptual stuff that was hardly fine for the time. Heck even the over 5 year older linage2 had already started to adapt to some mmorpg trends. The original release ignored all of that at a time when WoW was already out and even asian games started to implement some basic stories.

But in regards to the rest..Bugthesda not fixing their games is also one thing that everyone knows by now (literal copy-pasting previous game bugs into the new one after fixing them previously), but CDPR so far has at least tried to fix some of their shit over time. Even with the failure launch of CP2077, putting them on the same level as bugthesda is a bit much, they at least try to improve their engine. That alone should earn them a footrest's worth of elevation over them.

[BeepBoo]

The biggest problem is that people are desperate for large, big budget RPGs, which are notoriously among the hardest games to make.

As a result, only a few game companies even ATTEMPT such games, and people who like that specific genre are left to either buy it and hope it doesn't suck or get nothing altogether. Big single player RPGs are absolutely my favorite games, and it really REALLY sucks when I don't have a "skyrim" to fill the void (which is happening more and more now-a-days) but I just... cope... and accept the lack of that piece in my life, only buying new games after they've been well vetted.

Honestly, I'm starting to question if the market for such games will continue. It takes so much more work and there's so much more risk involved versus other game types that are absolute garbage and take no effort, yet rake in profits (looking at you mobile market).

[dextersmith]

The track record of some game companies has led me to never buy pre-order, never buy early access, and never to buy at launch. I rarely buy a game at full price anymore as well. 4-6 months and then during a sale.

I don't buy into the hype or have to be one of the first to play anything.

Rift, Aion, etc. lead me to the same place.

[Poppincaps]

Most games aren't broken at launch. Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Persona 5 Royal, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Nioh 2, The Last of Us Part 2, Ghosts of Tsushima, and Cyberpunk 2077 are all games I bought in 2020. Of those games, only one, Cyberpunk, was broken to the point where I regretted my purchase. Some of those games had minor bugs, like the door with a very low res texture in FF7 Remake, but nothing that really impeded my experience or detracted from the game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

well there was the ff14 thing. so broken and buggy games being rushed out isn't a western only thing. that said, that is the exception for eastern culture. and ff14 has gotten to a point where it is stealing more and more wow players every year because of how much blizz keep screwing up.

Not nearly as much as you put it but yes being broken at release happens to every big publisher..sadly.

[Pony Soldier]

Well when we're talking about companies like CDPR who WAS one of the most trustworthy and respectable developers in the industry working on a very ambitious game like Cyberpunk for, what was it, almost 10 years? It's natural to expect an almost flawless functioning game. Especially when they kept making it seem like they're taking their time with the game and making sure it's a quality game by saying stuff like "it'll be released when it's finished". Also for the fact that if you're charging me $60 for the game I expect the game to at least work. A few minor bugs here and there, fine, but Cyberpunk had more than a few bugs. The game was pretty much broken and still kind of is last time I heard even with the huge patches they released.

Look at Nintendo games. Can anyone here who has played a Nintendo game say that they experienced any game breaking bugs in their games? Any bugs at all? I'm pretty sure the answer would be mostly no. Maybe you just didn't like what the game offered but as far as functionality goes Nintendo has ALWAYS released a game pretty much bug free. That's why I still hold a lot of respect for Nintendo even though they piss me off a lot with some of the shit they do. At least when you're buying a Nintendo made game you know you're getting a quality game that's worth the money. That's how every one of these multi-million dollar companies should be. Instead they want to make a quick buck by hyping it up and then fixing the game later with their 20-50 GB patches and updates.

[Mister K]

A working product is not an impossible feat, therefore if the track record wasn't too bad it's still okay to hope for that. Like, expecting Bugthesda to release a working game is quite the tall order, having a linear action adventure game on the other hand should be still reasonable from an experienced studio and publisher. In fact it's the bare minimum we should expect and demand for >60 bucks.

Software is a tricky thing. Specially when you have to optimise and write for multiple platforms.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at Nintendo games. Can anyone here who has played a Nintendo game say that they experienced any game breaking bugs in their games? Any bugs at all? I'm pretty sure the answer would be mostly no. Maybe you just didn't like what the game offered but as far as functionality goes Nintendo has ALWAYS released a game pretty much bug free. That's why I still hold a lot of respect for Nintendo even though they piss me off a lot with some of the shit they do. At least when you're buying a Nintendo made game you know you're getting a quality game that's worth the money. That's how every one of these multi-million dollar companies should be. Instead they want to make a quick buck by hyping it up and then fixing the game later with their 20-50 GB patches and updates.

Is Nintendo pushing anything original these days?

It certainly is not acceptable for certain games like Cyberpunk to be so broken. Bugs are fine and understandable but game being totally unplayable is ridiculous. Although I didn't experience critical issues others have but then again, I didn't exactly get the game the right way.

- - - Updated - - -

The biggest problem is that people are desperate for large, big budget RPGs, which are notoriously among the hardest games to make.

As a result, only a few game companies even ATTEMPT such games, and people who like that specific genre are left to either buy it and hope it doesn't suck or get nothing altogether. Big single player RPGs are absolutely my favorite games, and it really REALLY sucks when I don't have a "skyrim" to fill the void (which is happening more and more now-a-days) but I just... cope... and accept the lack of that piece in my life, only buying new games after they've been well vetted.

Honestly, I'm starting to question if the market for such games will continue. It takes so much more work and there's so much more risk involved versus other game types that are absolute garbage and take no effort, yet rake in profits (looking at you mobile market).

This. Gamers are some of the worst kind of bitchy people. Outside of Instagram "Influencers".

[epLe]

I bought Cyberpunk on release, and only experienced a tiny graphical bug no more than once during my playthrough.

Can't really understand how people refer to it as broken.

[Greyvax]

Well, they don't. A lot of the flops that happened over the past couple years were from different companies. You'd expect a big name company to release a solid game, but nope, they all keep surprising with their ineptitutde.

For example. Anthem convinced me that Bioware is finished. I know they are working on Dragon Age 4, but i wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole unless it gets released with raving reviews. I fully expect it to be riddled with "GaaS" garbage, and end up being more stinky than the giant turd Anthem ended up being.

[Nutri]

I don't expect it, track-record of the last decade has shown the opposite is a lot more common.

You should expect a bloody mess that'll only get patched up if the number of complaints are so substantial they can't afford not fixing them without losing face.

Imho super buggy releases are more prone to happen when a studio or publisher has shareholders that only care about revenue and keep hammering on release windows. I much prefer waiting longer with a 'it's due when it's done' policy over 'must release at X date at all costs because shareholders/investors'. Smaller indy companies are a good example of due when done. They want their product to be as polished as can be when it drops.

And thus I decided a long time ago never to preorder a game ever again (only exception are wow xpacs). I buy a game post release and discounted at least 30%. Wait a month or so to let the early adopters go through the public beta testing and get a cheaper and more functional game instead.

[mbit]

Software is a tricky thing. Specially when you have to optimise and write for multiple platforms.

Not the problem. The common factor in all of this is dev teams getting replaced and players not taking note buying on company reputation alone believing its still the same people.

[Stormwolf64]

There just needs to be more laws punishing these fucking corphs who release games ASAP because it has reached a deadline and suits are afraid of losing money. The laws are too loose and they seem to be able to fully price a half finished product and that seems to be OK, even if they lie about intentions. So, where is the protection for the small men and women buying these things? Nowhere. And that needs to change

[mbit]

There just needs to be more laws punishing these fucking corphs who release games ASAP because it has reached a deadline and suits are afraid of losing money. The laws are too loose and they seem to be able to fully price a half finished product and that seems to be OK, even if they lie about intentions. So, where is the protection for the small men and women buying these things? Nowhere. And that needs to change

You can refund. You can watch streamers/youtubers and decide. If you preorder blind thats on you. And if you want to babysit grown adults because you consider them too stupid to make decisions you might as well scrap democracy. Clearly their are incapable of making decisions.

[dope_danny]

"They said i can do anything..."

This way to the egress!

[VinceVega]

Hey.

After so many "Duds" and mismanaged messes in the recent years.. Marvel's avengers, Cyberpunk 2077, Andromeda, Fallout 76, Anthem and probably more that i don't remember,

Why are there still people optimistic enough to expect a working product when a new hyped up games come out?

Marvels Avengers was just boring.
Cyberpunk 2077 is just not as good as they promised and the old generation of consoles... well... no idea why they hyped that part up so much. They could have just said works best on next gen. The game was overall not innovative and for me at least incredbly boring.
Andromeda was not half has bad as people make it out to be. Just not as good as ME:2 and 3.
Fallout 76 is exactly what it is supposed to be.
Anthem... yeah that was shit... not a sort of game bioware should do

[Stormwolf64]

You can refund. You can watch streamers/youtubers and decide. If you preorder blind thats on you. And if you want to babysit grown adults because you consider them too stupid to make decisions you might as well scrap democracy. Clearly their are incapable of making decisions.

No, no one should NEED to watch these braindead twitchers you might love. Not everyone watches braindead Youtubers either. Don't take offense to these words if you like them, but you should realize how stupid it is to rationalize needing to watch these clowns to have a valid reason to not buy a product that should come out both as advertised and expected in the first place. If they advertise a functionally and visually different game than people purchase, well then they obviously should have a pretty damn valid reason for refunding regardless if they've played over 2 hours or whatever.

[Erwarth]

I preordered Total War : Warhammer 3 because I believe in CA.
I preordered Baldur's Gate 3 because I believe in Larian.
Pre-ordering is believing in the company, not in the game.

It's like sub to a streamer or something, you do it because you encourage them. But never pre-order from big studios.