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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Beams and aoe bosses effects are marked: you can see where they will hit before they hit. Pushing winds not. You can see they appeared but you can’t see where they will go. That’s why for me it’s a bad mechanic.
    Sidestep the pushing wind. They will go straight in front on the mob once they are fired. They are just not telegraphed.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Being awful at the game isn't toxic. Being awful at the game and expecting to be carried through higher keys in pugs is toxic. By the time you are in higher keys, you've gone thru the dungeon on normal, heroic, mythic, 10+ levels of keys. Blizzard does a great job of explaining mechanics by letting u slightly rise in difficulty each time.

    Its like lying on your resume to get a job you have no place being in. Then when the business fails, you're like "lol sorry, stop being mean to me"

    - - - Updated - - -



    The winds spawn in front of the guy. Look at the 10 foot tall skeleton. See the big black swirling vortex of death in front of him. It only moves directly in front of him. Sidestep so you are no longer directly in front of him.

    You CAN see where they will go.
    I'd argue that being able to even attempt to do something you're extremely ill equipped to even really seriously participate in is a massive error in game design, and if you're a player who actively knows this and still do it, that may be stupid, but I really don't think these people exist. there's a massive amount of ignorance to the audience in the game due to Blizzard literally not explaining much of the game past mere basics, like... How to move. it feels like a game from the early 90s that wants to be a game from the late 2000s pretty often imho. (I think it's mostly Blizzard is just too cheap and lazy to properly integrate tutorials, proper ones, along the way, when they can just rely on people boosting to the next expansion with no idea what to do, getting frustrated, unsubbing, and waiting for the next person to do the same)

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Blizzard does a great job of explaining mechanics by letting u slightly rise in difficulty each time.
    To be fair, there are some very subtle mechanics that most players will never know about unless they read about them in a guide. They will just die and think what happened. And even though I think that people should read guides, I still agree that Blizzard could do a better job of making people aware of certain mechanics in game.

    Toxicity in dungeons often happens when people think they know what's going on but they really don't.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Healzerbot View Post
    Only thing that makes M+ toxic is the players that don't know what they are doing.

    When running high keys there is little or no chance at failure. Miss a interrupt and it could lead to a wipe depending how the party's health is. Example: Golems in SoA, those bad dudes can kill you.

    It's not toxic to expect someone that joins high content to know what spells need to be interrupted, when to use personals.

    As a healer I track people's CDs, I'll always heal a person that has there personals on CD over someone who doesn't. Oh you died because you were staying in "fire" but your CD isn't on CD, sorry the other dps who's cd just ran out needs me more.

    I don't understand how people are called toxic because they are pushing higher content and expect other people to have a clue what they are doing. Do you plan on raiding without knowing the tactics, it's the same thing.
    This. Yes. Thank you.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    To be fair, there are some very subtle mechanics that most players will never know about unless they read about them in a guide. They will just die and think what happened. And even though I think that people should read guides, I still agree that Blizzard could do a better job of making people aware of certain mechanics in game.

    Toxicity in dungeons often happens when people think they know what's going on but they really don't.
    I get that, but after +10, you shldve gone thru it on tyrannical and fortified where these mechanics are amplified. Everytime I get blown up and I'm like wtf is that, I hit the recap button and learn what the ability is named. Then on packs with similar mobs, I look for that being casted.

    I'm not sure how blizz could help players anymore without making them take a test where every single ability is spelled out. How would blizz teach players better?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I get that, but after +10, you shldve gone thru it on tyrannical and fortified where these mechanics are amplified. Everytime I get blown up and I'm like wtf is that, I hit the recap button and learn what the ability is named. Then on packs with similar mobs, I look for that being casted.

    I'm not sure how blizz could help players anymore without making them take a test where every single ability is spelled out. How would blizz teach players better?
    Last paragraph could be a “dungeon training mode” I proposed some time ago, being totally ignored.

    I would just love to wipe at Gorechop or Stradama until I perfectly manage hooks and tentacles (for example) without having to do it “live” risking to ruin runs.

    I understand that many have not this issue but we are not all the same and we have different learning curves. Bosses that are a joke for someone can be difficult for someone else and viceversa.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I get that, but after +10, you shldve gone thru it on tyrannical and fortified where these mechanics are amplified. Everytime I get blown up and I'm like wtf is that, I hit the recap button and learn what the ability is named. Then on packs with similar mobs, I look for that being casted.

    I'm not sure how blizz could help players anymore without making them take a test where every single ability is spelled out. How would blizz teach players better?
    Personally I think they should make more very challenging solo tutorial content like the Mage Towers where players could experience dungeon-like mechanics and be solely responsible for dealing with them correctly. This way if they fail it would be their fault alone and they couldn't rely on other players to carry them. Content like this would force players to be much more aware of mechanics and learn if they wanted to progress it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Beams and aoe bosses effects are marked: you can see where they will hit before they hit. Pushing winds not. You can see they appeared but you can’t see where they will go. That’s why for me it’s a bad mechanic.
    How can't you see it? it there is a mob and there is a tornado, you draw a straight line from mob face to the tornado and that's where it goes.

    Ventunax balls are rotating in very predictable pattern. Tanks and melee actually stand on the source and dodge it. It's only hard during second intermission when you have 4 sources just because of sheer amount of them, not because you can't see it. Ofc. it depends on the tank. I would even call a good mechanic because you can avoid it if you are skilled. Someting like Muezalas dot or ToP last boss shadow+physical cleave just kills you without any chance to survive no matter how skilled you are.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    How can't you see it? it there is a mob and there is a tornado, you draw a straight line from mob face to the tornado and that's where it goes.

    Ventunax balls are rotating in very predictable pattern. Tanks and melee actually stand on the source and dodge it. It's only hard during second intermission when you have 4 sources just because of sheer amount of them, not because you can't see it. Ofc. it depends on the tank. I would even call a good mechanic because you can avoid it if you are skilled. Someting like Muezalas dot or ToP last boss shadow+physical cleave just kills you without any chance to survive no matter how skilled you are.
    I usually don’t watch mobs “faces”, I’m too busy healing and avoiding bad things on the ground. Now that you made me notice this, I will surely give a look next times.

    Ventunax balls are a different story, when they start spawning from different positions at the same time it becomes hard, also because basically I can’t heal while moving except from during nature’s swiftness that has a limited duration. For me is by far the toughest boss in SoA, all the others have more predictable and avoidable mechanics. I have clearly issues with “things coming to me at high speed” (see also Stradama tentacles or Gorechop hooks I mentioned before or Sanguine Depths last boss lazers).

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    For me is by far the toughest boss in SoA, all the others have more predictable and avoidable mechanics
    It is one of the harder bosses in SL.
    Tank is dictating where the orbs are coming from - if he drops the spots in 4 different random locations - good luck.
    My advice is put two spots one on another and then directly opposite side of the room and do the same so melee has easier time dodging during active phase and when recharge starts they only have to dodge balls from two directions.. OR tank in the middle all the times if you have 4 ranged players in the group so there will be lots of balls but only one direction to watch out for.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Healzerbot View Post
    It's not toxic to expect someone that joins high content to know what spells need to be interrupted, when to use personals.
    No it isn't. However, when people get called derogatory words for gay people for making a mistake, that's toxic, I don't care who you are. Doing crap like that is never justified and only reinforces the already negative stigma that the RIO community has.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    No it isn't. However, when people get called derogatory words for gay people for making a mistake, that's toxic, I don't care who you are. Doing crap like that is never justified and only reinforces the already negative stigma that the RIO community has.
    The RIO community only has a bad stigma amongst the wilfully bad players who were used to and still feel entitled to be carried by players that care about their performance and respect the time of their fellow player.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    The RIO community only has a bad stigma amongst the wilfully bad players who were used to and still feel entitled to be carried by players that care about their performance and respect the time of their fellow player.
    As a part of the RIO community, we get our bad stigma because of how shitty most of us are to people who are not seasoned M+ players. Many (not most) of us expect people to be creme-of-the-crop for trivial keys. I never understood the mentality of expecting someone to be M15 geared for a M5. While it is your key and you can expect anything you want, it just goes to highlight the big problem. While people who are part of the problem say "I see no problem."

    I may be part of a minority in the RIO community but I'm more than willing to give pointers and guide someone trying to make it. I'm not going to full-blown hold someone's hand but what people who are (or think they are) elite need to keep in their heads is "not everyone is as awesome as you apparently are." We being to lose sight of the fact that this is a game, no matter how you slice it. We just become shitheads for no legit reason.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    As a part of the RIO community, we get our bad stigma because of how shitty most of us are to people who are not seasoned M+ players. Many (not most) of us expect people to be creme-of-the-crop for trivial keys. I never understood the mentality of expecting someone to be M15 geared for a M5. While it is your key and you can expect anything you want, it just goes to highlight the big problem. While people who are part of the problem say "I see no problem."

    I may be part of a minority in the RIO community but I'm more than willing to give pointers and guide someone trying to make it. I'm not going to full-blown hold someone's hand but what people who are (or think they are) elite need to keep in their heads is "not everyone is as awesome as you apparently are." We being to lose sight of the fact that this is a game, no matter how you slice it. We just become shitheads for no legit reason.
    I've found that the +15+ players aren't usually the ones being dickheads in a +5. Its usually the ppl in the +8 range who think they are better than they are and truly believe its other players that are the reasons they aren't progressing.

  15. #215
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    It’s not that I can’t see when they are casted, I cannot see where they will go that’s why for me it’s a bad designed ability. It could be “good” if it had half the speed (something like first HoA boss black balls speed). Platforms are really tight and usually someone get always pushed. At least the game could take the corpse back to the platform so that the player can be ressed if/when pull ends.
    Are you serious? It's a straight line every time that mob casts Death Winds.



    From the image above, you can see it's mob then the death winds which is point straight up. Which means it's going up so don't be in line with that.


    Yeah the last platform is really tight but players can't do it without getting knocked off then that's a lack of awareness. The cast is long and very visible.
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I've found that the +15+ players aren't usually the ones being dickheads in a +5. Its usually the ppl in the +8 range who think they are better than they are and truly believe its other players that are the reasons they aren't progressing.
    And you're probably right. I've never exactly tried to pinpoint at what point people get too big for their britches.

  17. #217
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    For the millionth time people really need to be blaming Blizzard for not properly explaining shit to anyone ever. What the fuck do you expect to happen?
    Maybe if we were back in 2003 but it's 2021. There are so many sources of information that players have. You got class discords, wowhead, a billion youtubers showing you how to do dungeons. You got mythictrap, r.io, and others that provide you with detailed information about routes, mobs of particular interest (aka priority targets), how to handle bosses (i.e. Tricks to make your life easier).

    If a player can't go look up strategies/guides then the problem is with that player.

    Additionally, it's not like Blizzard doesn't put in tools either: you have a dungeon journal, you have 3 dungeon difficulties BEFORE M+ keystones. Sure the mechanics are less relevant (and some are non-existent if you're not on M+0), but you can learn them.
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  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Is toxic just used as "person I dislike" nowadays?
    Pretty much.

    It's used like the word fuck, it's a noun, verb, adverb, and adjective.
    Overly popular with people who are 18-25.

    Roots stemming from League of Legends 2011, when Phreak used the word "toxic" to describe players behavior being judged by the tribunal, which then spread through Twitch.

    It's very confusing for people who do not speak english, such as my neighbor. When i called our other neighbor "toxic" she thought the other neighbor was poisoned. Guess who looked like an ass when she walked over and knocked on their door to see if she was "ok"?

    It's better to say what you mean instead of slang most of the time. Unpleasant, lazy, etc. Those hyper critical about the word usually are projecting... i mean look at this thread.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    As a part of the RIO community, we get our bad stigma because of how shitty most of us are to people who are not seasoned M+ players. Many (not most) of us expect people to be creme-of-the-crop for trivial keys. I never understood the mentality of expecting someone to be M15 geared for a M5. While it is your key and you can expect anything you want, it just goes to highlight the big problem. While people who are part of the problem say "I see no problem."

    I may be part of a minority in the RIO community but I'm more than willing to give pointers and guide someone trying to make it. I'm not going to full-blown hold someone's hand but what people who are (or think they are) elite need to keep in their heads is "not everyone is as awesome as you apparently are." We being to lose sight of the fact that this is a game, no matter how you slice it. We just become shitheads for no legit reason.
    As I said M+ players that care about their performance and respect the time of their fellow gamer don't want to play with those that don't care about their performance or don't respect the time of their fellow gamer. The only ones that have "a problem" are players that expect to be carried and get rejected and then start crying about "being rejected", "gatekept", "wow has a community problem" and other stuff like that.

    And you are completely right that this is a game, and M+ is competitive by nature, so the true shitheads are those that don't respect that it is a competitive game.
    Nobody can or will stop or blame a player for not being competitive, but expecting that competitive players should carry the non-competitive players is delusional at best and extremely toxic at worst.

  20. #220
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    Whatever happened to letting people join a group and being happy you cleared said content? Perhaps it's not Blizzard who's killing fun but the players who are doing that.

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