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  1. #21
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Jaina and the silver covenant are responsible for the massacre and Lor'themar has still done nothing to retaliate at them for that. What I want here is JUSTICE something we don't get in a game where blizzard is biased for the alliance.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...avers/c7fbrdo/

    There was no massacre... People who, in essence, violently resisted arrest, were the only ones who were killed... Jaina walking around Dalaran killing people at random during the scenario was unintended, and is not canon.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...avers/c7fbrdo/

    There was no massacre... People who, in essence, violently resisted arrest, were the only ones who were killed... Jaina walking around Dalaran killing people at random during the scenario was unintended, and is not canon.
    There definitly was a massacre. Alliance fans are just in denial of it.

  3. #23
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    There definitly was a massacre. Alliance fans are just in denial of it.
    So, you think you know better than the person who was the lead narrative designer of WoW at the time that quest happened (the person who made the reddit post I just liked you to)? You're the one in denial.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    So, you think you know better than the person who was the lead narrative designer of WoW at the time that quest happened (the person who made the reddit post I just liked you to)? You're the one in denial.
    And you're an alliance fanatic because you rabidly defend Jaina and the silver covenant.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-02-08 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  5. #25
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    And you're an alliance fanatic because you rabidly defend Jaina and the silver covenant.
    I'm not defending anyone, I'm showing you a post by the guy who was in charge of WoW's entire story and lore at the time that quest was designed saying that there was no massacre.

    When the guy who literally wrote the lore says something didn't happen in the lore, that means it didn't happen.
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  6. #26
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    The freedom of his people is worth it.
    but it would just get more of his poeple killed and captured if he made the blood elfs and active threat unlike the passive one that has been ignored since tbc.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...avers/c7fbrdo/

    There was no massacre... People who, in essence, violently resisted arrest, were the only ones who were killed... Jaina walking around Dalaran killing people at random during the scenario was unintended, and is not canon.
    Everytime you post this I will chime in and say that what lies in the game still to this day holds more weight than one dev's off the cuff comment in a reddit thread.

    edit: this is what... the 8 or 9th time now?

  8. #28
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Everytime you post this I will chime in and say that what lies in the game still to this day holds more weight than one dev's off the cuff comment in a reddit thread.

    edit: this is what... the 8 or 9th time now?
    And I will keep telling you how stupid that stance is.

    It's not just "one dev's", he's literally the guy who was in charge of the game's story at the time the quest was designed. No, it does not hold more weight than his word, unintended NPC behavior is not lore.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    And I will keep telling you how stupid that stance is.

    It's not just "one dev's", he's literally the guy who was in charge of the game's story at the time the quest was designed. No, it does not hold more weight than his word, unintended NPC behavior is not lore.
    And it's an unfiltered statement that isn't getting filtered by the rest of the powers. Their statement is not reflected in the material produced so despite their position I can only treat it as having the same weight as concept material rather than canon.

    edit:

    But if you're fine accepting once off statements as canon altering facts you can file it alongside other Rowling-esque style expositions that aren't backed by more than a one off statement after teh fact.

    edit2:

    actually Rowling's word on the potterverse carries far more weight than the guy you like to reference.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2021-02-08 at 08:12 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    but it would just get more of his poeple killed and captured if he made the blood elfs and active threat unlike the passive one that has been ignored since tbc.
    So he rather stays an appeasing and spineless alliance boot licker. Pathetic. I hope Kael'thas comes back and overthrow his government. Real blood elves would never bow to humans. Last time they wronged us we killed them.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    And it's an unfiltered statement that isn't getting filtered by the rest of the powers. Their statement is not reflected in the material produced so despite their position I can only treat it as having the same weight as concept material rather than canon.
    The thread contains a video of the questline from when it was current content, and we see Jaina killing no one, only, as the dev said, teleporting them to the Violet Hold.

    Old content not getting fixed when shit breaks does not mean the lore has changed... The dev team has priorities, and fixing non-critical NPC behavior in an outdated quest that almost no one will play is far from the top of the priority list.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    The thread contains a video of the questline from when it was current content, and we see Jaina killing no one, only, as the dev said, teleporting them to the Violet Hold.

    Deprecated content not getting fixed when shit breaks does not mean the lore has changed.
    and as I've said multiple times in threads before....

    go and replay the quest sometime. She kills with frost bolts, her elementals are casting blizzards... the fleeing citizens are killed by both. I'm not saying she doens't cast teleport. However it's false to say she isn't killing and the vid you like to call out is something I haven't replicated within the recent years.

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    I like how everyone complains that the Sunreavers broke the neutrality agreement first despite the fact it was one rogue agent who was pressured by Garrosh who worked against their interests but forget that Jaina, the literal head of the Kirin Tor at the time who was under the same neutrality agreement, broke it by directly assisting Darnassus by setting up the security and getting involved in what was a faction issue and was the direct reason why the Sunreaver Agent was forced into helping in the first place. Then they also gloss over the fact she chose to attack the Sunreavers prior to getting the rest of the council's agreement, murders guards who didn't even move to stop her, imprisons Aethas without trial, orders the Silver Covenant to act freely in dealing with the Sunreavers (who then proceed to murder a bunch, exploit and launch a bid for power) and claims to be expelling the Sunreavers despite the fact she ends up strolling around Dalaran murdering citizens and teleporting a fortunate few to the Violet Hold where they weren't freed until Khadgar came back in Legion.

    Yes it was pathetic that Lor'themar did nothing in response to what happened because he had been trying to generate favour with the Alliance prior and cowed to both Varian and Garrosh in response. It's even more pathetic that the same thing happened only a few years later in BfA where he was trying to curry favour with the Alliance once more as "Sylvanas was too extreme" but then Jaina ends up waltzing into the belly of Orgrimmar and ends up murdering even more Blood Elves this time alongside Ex-Horde (Saurfang who was hard on the Horde sucks train at this point and Thrall who had retired) Agitants and the player and still he thinks joining the Alliance would be great for his people... Despite the fact they literally have the Void Elves who threatened them not long ago as allies. Lor'themar is one of those interesting characters on introduction who has just gotten worse as time has gone on.
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  14. #34
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    go and replay the quest sometime. She kills with frost bolts, her elementals are casting blizzards... the fleeing citizens are killed by both. I'm not saying she doens't cast teleport. However it's false to say she isn't killing and the vid you like to call out is something I haven't replicated within the recent years.
    Old content not getting fixed when shit breaks does not mean the lore has changed... The dev team has priorities, and fixing non-critical NPC behavior in an outdated quest that almost no one will play is far from the top of the priority list. Claiming that bugged NPC behavior in an old quest constitutes lore is laughable.

    How the scenario behaves now is not relevant, how it behaved when it was maintained current content is, and when it was maintained current content Jaina was not walking around murdering people indiscriminately
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2021-02-08 at 08:24 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    So he rather stays an appeasing and spineless alliance boot licker. Pathetic. I hope Kael'thas comes back and overthrow his government. Real blood elves would never bow to humans. Last time they wronged us we killed them.
    Yeah, Blood Elves would rather be enslaved by the Burning Legion. What a great leader Kael was.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    The bloods Elves are blessed to have Lor’themar as their leader.

    Out of all the leaders in WoW he is one of the best in terms of actual governance.
    This, he isn't the flashiest but he's easily the most levelheaded and wisest in practice.
    Hell, he's the closest thing WoW has to a realistical competent leader.

    Also why tye fuck would he save the Sunreavers from what they brought on themselves? They weren't worth a single drop of blood at the time.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Yeah, Blood Elves would rather be enslaved by the Burning Legion. What a great leader Kael was.
    If it means getting back at the alliance I am all in for it.

  18. #38
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    If it means getting back at the alliance I am all in for it.
    Have you ever heard of the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face"?

    "I hate the alliance, so I'm gonna join forces with the demons trying to literally destroy the entire universe" is not a reasonable reaction to this situation, even if there was an actual massacre, which as the lead narrative designer said, there was not.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2021-02-08 at 08:30 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    If it means getting back at the alliance I am all in for it.
    You're kidding right? You think slavery is a good compromise for revenge?
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Old content not getting fixed when shit breaks does not mean the lore has changed... The dev team has priorities, and fixing non-critical NPC behavior in an outdated quest that almost no one will play is far from the top of the priority list. Claiming that bugged NPC behavior in an old quest constitutes lore is laughable.

    How the scenario behaves now is not relevant, how it behaved when it was maintained current content is.
    And I'm also stating how I saw the quest WHEN IT WAS CURRENT and also state I have not seen any form of the quest resembling what you reference. I have done the quest on multiple characters from both factions and trying to observe the events people mention. My horde characters were never teleported to the violet hold and rather killed on sight. As for NPC's I typically saw them getting caught in aoe and killed outright far more often than Jaina would cast teleport....

    As I have stated multiple times already I have never seen the events unfold in the manner that dev asserts or like the vid you like to link. whether it was in 2013, 2015, 2017 or last wednesday...

    This is going to go nowhere because we will not see eye to eye. I assert that what's in game takes precedence over events by nature of it's what made it to the live game and is yet to be clarified further by canon lore. you assert that this one guy's comment and a vid (I have yet to replicate) are enough to prove canon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You're kidding right? You think slavery is a good compromise for revenge?
    to be fair. Legion control gave functional immortality and a seemingly limitless power cap beyond any mortal ken... well until we pulled that Legion xpac win out of nowhere and locked Sargeras up with the titans. I think the legion STILL retains it's effective immortality as well but it's now much slower?

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