PA couple shot over long-going dispute with neighbor

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yeah. Fuck him. Fuck his feelings.

Did you watch the video? He didn't just lose his temper and acted out in the heat of the moment. After shooting them both several times he went back inside and grabbed another gun to finish them both off at point blank range.

Again nothing justifies that. And nothing justifies the way he was treated.

The world doesn’t just exist for you and what you think. The way other people feel is important. We all get angry and heated.

But if my neighbor freaked out because I accidentally shoveled snow on his property (Not the case in this situation where it was deliberate)
My first instinct wouldn’t be to tell them “go fuck them selves” or “what are you going to do about it”.

No because I can’t, but because I’d rather reasonable or not in my view talk to them like a human being apologize work out some kind of arrangement.

Because this is my god damn neighbor. Treating him with respect is an investment just like shooting ones fucking mouth off.

I see the investment this man and his wife made.

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It. Doesn't. Matter.

It does and treating people like shit is stupid. Got enough of that attitude then these are the results.

[cubby]

Again nothing justifies that. And nothing justifies the way he was treated.

The world doesn’t just exist for you and what you think. The way other people feel is important. We all get angry and heated.

But if my neighbor freaked out because I accidentally shoveled snow on his property (Not the case in this situation where it was deliberate)
My first instinct wouldn’t be to tell them “go fuck them selves” or “what are you going to do about it”.

No because I can’t, but because I’d rather reasonable or not in my view talk to them like a human being apologize work out some kind of arrangement.

Because this is my god damn neighbor. Treating him with respect is an investment just like shooting ones fucking mouth off.

I see the investment this man and his wife made.

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It does and treating people like shit is stupid. Got enough of that attitude then these are the results.

Ego thinks in terms of black and white. And people don't interact that way. I agree especially with your sentiment regarding how the shooter was treated.

[Egomaniac]

You're still a liar - you lied twice in our brief exchange. I fixed the one time I was incorrect. That's all you'll get. You should try being more civil and honest next time.

I never lied. I paraphrased.

Also, I believe there was already a warning about this. Try to follow the instructions of the moderators.

[Nurasu]

The only one I feel bad for is the kid. -2 homophobes and 1 stone cold murderer.

[Egomaniac]

It does and treating people like shit is stupid. Got enough of that attitude then these are the results.

That sounds an awful lot like someone making justifications for murder.

[cubby]

I never lied. I paraphrased.

Also, I believe there was already a warning about this. Try to follow the instructions of the moderators.

The warning was for another issue. I am following the moderators request. Please read things you refer to.

You did lie. Twice.

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That sounds an awful lot like someone making justifications for murder.

But it's not - and this point is continually lost on you. You seem to be unable to differentiate between justification and escalating behavior. We don't know how else to explain it to you.

[Egomaniac]

The shooter clearly went bat-shit nuts - nay even "postal". Also, as an aside, he didn't "finish them off" - iirc they were both dead before he went back to get his rifle. The shooter was clearly off the deep end at that point.

That's false. The wife is still alive when he comes back out and shoots her in the head.

[Daedius]

This thread reminds me of school shooters that snap, killing their tormentors after years of being bullied, and people claiming those bullies were innocent and the shooter was just a nut job...

[cubby]

That's false. The wife is still alive when he comes back out and shoots her in the head.

Gotcha - ok, so just half off the deep end. I mean, holy shit did that guy have some issues.

Totally spit balling here - I wonder if he saw how this would play out and had already decided to kill himself, but wanted to make sure he finished it first. Ok, nvm - that's too horrid to think about.

[gondrin]

It doesn't matter what they were doing outside. It doesn't warrant him going to grab a gun, emptying the clip into them, going back inside, grabbing another gun, and going back out to shoot them again.

The biggest equivalence I can make of this is if I were to walk up to someone, start yelling at them and harassing them to be an ass for the sole purpose to get a response out of them and then get punched in the face because of said goading. While I am the victim and the person shouldn't have punched me, I shouldn't have also purposely went out of my way to goad said person. Like the video of the kid who got beaten by the guy with a can of Twisted Tea after he kept using the N word and wouldn't stop after being told to stop.

So far I haven't seen anyone state that the guy doing the shooting is innocent nor isn't at blame. The couple was also purposefully antagonizing the guy for whatever reason hence they are not blameless in it. They did not deserve to get shot but they also shouldn't go out of their way to goad someone into a reaction which they did do while also goading said person who was then brandishing a firearm.

This is far different then blaming a rape victim for wearing a certain type of clothing or anything like that. That type of thing is one person just minding their own business.

[ParanoiD84]

Btw scroling that subreddit for 30min or so really shows what kind of fucked up world it is in alot of places lol. Some are pretty funny though.

[Egomaniac]

The warning was for another issue. I am following the moderators request. Please read things you refer to.

You did lie. Twice.

The warning was "Stop derailing the thread over assumed arguments/intent and stay civil."

One of your accusations of me lying I have already clarified as me paraphrasing. You continuing to insist that it was a lie is assuming intent.

Also, I'll point out that at no point in time have I ever made any attacks on your character. A courtesy you have not shown me.

[Shadowferal]

They had a history of being shitty towards each other...that's something I hope I never understand well.

[cubby]

The warning was "Stop derailing the thread over assumed arguments/intent and stay civil."

One of your accusations of me lying I have already clarified as me paraphrasing. You continuing to insist that it was a lie is assuming intent.

Also, I'll point out that at no point in time have I ever made any attacks on your character. A courtesy you have not shown me.

And yet it's not assuming intent, it's you lying. Twice. You even admitted it. You lied when you misquoted me. You lied when you said I was one of those people. I corrected the time I was incorrect (the third time) and went back to fix it.

You need to stop bringing this up - you were warned before and continue to belabor the issue.

Also, I'll point out that at no time did I lie. You did. Calling someone out for their actions isn't an attack on their character, it's pointing out what they did and labeling it. Feel free to do the same if I ever lie.

[Slant]

I see the first few posts in the thread there are saying that it's such a dumb thing and this is why you shouldn't aggravate people.

And that's horse shit.

What it really means is that the guy who attacked them is so much worse than otherwise. He took a petty, stupid, rude argument, and decided to fucking kill two people over it, rather than just sucking it up and dealing with it like a normal human being.

That this was so petty and that the victims were being insulting and rude does not in any way justify the guy's response. It does not suggest you shouldn't be rude or you'll get fucking murdered. That's victim-blaming, and worse, attempts to essentially use this event as a threat of future force against anyone else who might dare to be rude and insulting to others, that they might be "asking for it" by doing so.

I really don't give a shit if the couple were assholes and caused the argument for no real reason. Doesn't matter. Didn't mean they should've died for it. Just means their neighbour was completely out to fucking lunch. The alternate timeline where this outcome didn't come about is the timeline where that neighbour was committed pre-emptively to get treatment before his rage issues led to him harming anyone, not a timeline where everyone's so scared of their violent and crazy neighbours that no one's willing to risk angering them.

I agree with every word you said. Conflicts in society are a regular and normal thing. What is missing here is proportion. If someone insults you and you want to get into a fistfight, sure. It's still criminal, but at least there's some sort of proportion and it'll be regulated with fines. This is such a massively disproportionate response to any behaviour that isn't threatening to one's life... there is just not argument to go "but they're dicks."

Now, mind you. They are dicks. But society as a whole has become less safe because of this. Just the fact that it's making the rounds and people watch it by the millions makes me wonder, who else takes this as inspiration or justification to off their annoying neighbour?

[Egomaniac]

This thread reminds me of school shooters that snap, killing their tormentors after years of being bullied, and people claiming those bullies were innocent and the shooter was just a nut job...

Last I checked bullying was not justification for murder.

No one is arguing that these people were wonderful people that never hurt anyone. They seem to have been complete assholes. I've known plenty of assholes in my life. I've yet to murder any of them.

[Slant]

This thread reminds me of school shooters that snap, killing their tormentors after years of being bullied, and people claiming those bullies were innocent and the shooter was just a nut job...

You're missing the point. Nobody ever said school shooters aren't being bullied. The point is, being bullied doesn't justify you going on a rampage. Sure, people are dicks... but being the ultimate dick and killing everyone is not accepted in society. Hopefully never will be.

[Egomaniac]

And yet it's not assuming intent, it's you lying. Twice. You even admitted it. You lied when you misquoted me. You lied when you said I was one of those people. I corrected the time I was incorrect (the third time) and went back to fix it.

You need to stop bringing this up - you were warned before and continue to belabor the issue.

Also, I'll point out that at no time did I lie. You did. Calling someone out for their actions isn't an attack on their character, it's pointing out what they did and labeling it. Feel free to do the same if I ever lie.

I'm not bringing it up. I'm defending myself from being called a liar after I have already clarified that I was paraphrasing what you had said.

When I said "you were one of those people" I was referring to when you said that the law was on his side. Which is the statement that you then said you were incorrect about.

So, I'd advise you to let this go now.

[cubby]

Sure, you said they were antagonizing him for decades. Where did you read that?

In the article I initially saw when this happened. Apparently the couple that was shot had been doing things like this for over a decade, throwing snow into his driveway, yelling/cursing, and a lot of other stuff.

It was from a different article though - not this one, but it at least shows an ongoing "thing".

Neighbours told police that Spaide and the Goys had been arguing for a long time over various issues, including snow removal. Police did not have any record of such disputes.

[gondrin]

You're missing the point. Nobody ever said school shooters aren't being bullied. The point is, being bullied doesn't justify you going on a rampage. Sure, people are dicks... but being the ultimate dick and killing everyone is not accepted in society. Hopefully never will be.

Thing is though is that people do have a breaking point mentally. When a person is bullied enough(not saying that this is the case here), they tend to have a mental breakdown and violence is usually the outcome of said thing. Either to themselves through mutilation or suicide or to others. That is why we need to take bullying seriously as the outcome from it tends to be far far worse for all parties invovled.