PA couple shot over long-going dispute with neighbor

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yep, and I'm on page 7. I don't even remember what the OP looked like lol.

Yeah, it's understandable that you didn't see it...I'm newer to the thread so I happened to see it (which is good because, as I said, my thoughts on the matter are not dissimilar to yours). I just wanted to head off the discussion before it gets to the points where mods have to get involved.

I think if it stops right here we can avoid anyone getting infracted over it.

[Zaktar]

Again nothing justifies that. And nothing justifies the way he was treated.

The world doesn’t just exist for you and what you think. The way other people feel is important. We all get angry and heated.

But if my neighbor freaked out because I accidentally shoveled snow on his property (Not the case in this situation where it was deliberate)
My first instinct wouldn’t be to tell them “go fuck them selves” or “what are you going to do about it”.

No because I can’t, but because I’d rather reasonable or not in my view talk to them like a human being apologize work out some kind of arrangement.

Because this is my god damn neighbor. Treating him with respect is an investment just like shooting ones fucking mouth off.

I see the investment this man and his wife made.

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It does and treating people like shit is stupid. Got enough of that attitude then these are the results.

It comes across as though you're equating their actions. You're saying nothing justifies murder, but also nothing justifies treating people like shit. Murder is a hell of a lot worse than treating someone like shit. People still have options when they are treated like shit. The dead do not have any. That guy could have been the nicest guy in the world prior to this, he proved himself to be 100x the piece of shit that couple was.

[cubby]

Decades means over 20 years. Not over 10. Maybe you misunderstand what decade means? And there’s zero evidence they’ve been harassing him for that long, just that they’ve had a contentious relationship that long. It’s entirely possible he has always been the aggressor. As evidenced by the fucking video. So, please, explain how the couple is in any way responsible for him executing them in the street. That is you position after all, the victims are partially at fault for the psycho’s actions.

I was just referring to over a decade of antagonism - usually that makes it plural, but I can see what you mean.

And again, I said I read that information in another article - not the one I linked (I will try to find it though). As far as victim blaming goes, I've answered that issue, as well as others, in this thread already. Essentially, the shooting isn't justified at all, but the couple certainly escalated the situation. The argument sets itself apart from the victim blaming that happens with rape victims.

Several people in this thread have made the distinction more eloquently than myself - I would look to them for clarification.

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Really surprised to see 7 pages on this, I didn't see much room for discussion, don't shoot people, don't be assholes, ESH, etc..

Perhaps we could have all benefited from your wisdom had you posted this EARLIER. I know I could have.
(just attempting a little humor in case it comes off differently)

I agree that 7 pages might be too much, but there is an interesting subconversation about the don't be assholes portion, and how that can or cannot contribute to reactions.

(question - ESH?)

[Zaktar]

I was just referring to over a decade of antagonism - usually that makes it plural, but I can see what you mean.

And again, I said I read that information in another article - not the one I linked (I will try to find it though). As far as victim blaming goes, I've answered that issue, as well as others, in this thread already. Essentially, the shooting isn't justified at all, but the couple certainly escalated the situation. The argument sets itself apart from the victim blaming that happens with rape victims.

Several people in this thread have made the distinction more eloquently than myself - I would look to them for clarification.

What value do you see in pointing out that they played a role in escalation; if he hadn't died and there was a court case, would it be relevant? Regardless of the escalation, the couple were not escalating while laying on the ground bleeding to death, when he came back out and shot them, after he'd had a significant amount of time to think through what he was doing.

[draynay]

Perhaps we could have all benefited from your wisdom had you posted this EARLIER. I know I could have.
(just attempting a little humor in case it comes off differently)

It didn't seem a very substantive contribution at the time

"Everyone Sucks Here"

[cubby]

Decades means over 20 years. Not over 10. Maybe you misunderstand what decade means? And there’s zero evidence they’ve been harassing him for that long, just that they’ve had a contentious relationship that long. It’s entirely possible he has always been the aggressor. As evidenced by the fucking video. So, please, explain how the couple is in any way responsible for him executing them in the street. That is you position after all, the victims are partially at fault for the psycho’s actions.

Found another article, adding to the backstory:

Neighbors told investigators that Spaide and the Goys had been engaged in a long-running feud that reached a boiling point on the snowiest day of the year.

"The Goys were shoveling the snow from their parking spots, shoveling the snow across the road, and throwing the snow onto Spaide’s property," Salavantis and Binker said in their statement.

Witnesses told investigators that Spaide asked the couple to stop, sparking a heated exchange of words. James Goy apparently threw a tool at Spaide that he had been using to clear snow from his car, according to the statement. When James Goy approached Spaide with a raised fist, Spaide reportedly retreated into his house and fetched a gun, the officials said.

Interesting. The act of violence from the couple I had not heard about. Apparently, they escalated the violence first. Interesting.

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It didn't seem a very substantive contribution at the time

"Everyone Sucks Here"

Lol, good point. I kind of wonder if this stuff has always happened, but we just hear about it more (thanks to media being everywhere now and social media too) or if there is a general escalation of societal violence.

[Nastard]

What value do you see in pointing out that they played a role in escalation; if he hadn't died and there was a court case, would it be relevant? Regardless of the escalation, the couple were not escalating while laying on the ground bleeding to death, when he came back out and shot them, after he'd had a significant amount of time to think through what he was doing.

At that point they were bleeding on his snow. What jerks, am I right?

[cubby]

What value do you see in pointing out that they played a role in escalation; if he hadn't died and there was a court case, would it be relevant? Regardless of the escalation, the couple were not escalating while laying on the ground bleeding to death, when he came back out and shot them, after he'd had a significant amount of time to think through what he was doing.

Just that - the couple did play a role. It might affect a court case. For instance, if Rob came up and start yelling at Frank, calling him names and shouting insults and not backing down, and then Frank hit him, in a court case those would be extenuating circumstances.

In fact, witnesses are now saying the couple actually started the violence first. Not that shooting is any kind of appropriate response - but the facts seem to still be coming in.

NOW, that being said, going back to get another gun to finish the job is at another level of fucked up. I want to really be clear here that regardless of the conversation, the shooters actions here were not justified.

[Edge-]

Man, can we go back to just like, dudes taking the shirts off and chest bumping screaming, "THROW A PUNCH BRO, NO YOU THROW A PUNCH FIRST BRO, I'M NOT STARTING THIS SHIT BRO, COME AT ME BRO." before the two of them end up embraced, throwing fisticuffs as someone looking on with a phone recording the scuffle screams "WORLD STARRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and sells the video to TMZ for a few grand.

Fuckin guns ruining what could have been top quality entertainment.

[Doctor Amadeus]

It comes across as though you're equating their actions. You're saying nothing justifies murder, but also nothing justifies treating people like shit. Murder is a hell of a lot worse than treating someone like shit. People still have options when they are treated like shit. The dead do not have any. That guy could have been the nicest guy in the world prior to this, he proved himself to be 100x the piece of shit that couple was.

Again you're a fan of the fuck your feelings and it doesn't matter what you say or how you treat people the rules says this or that. Well guess what rules don't keep you safe and there is no such thing as a vacuum in situations like this.

You're not trying to get me to think objectively either, you are trying to get me to say it is ok to do whatever you want treat people however you want and whatever you can get away with so long as it's with in the rules as you see them and everything is ok.

Well it isn't and that isn't reality. the people that got shot and killed "DIDN'T DESERVE THEIR FATE" but they weren't innocent and obviously they felt being rude belittling and vicious was the way to deal with a neighbor. People are not always obliged to turn the other cheek or look out for OTHERS best interest when they don't give a shit.


The selfishness and thoughtless behavior here went both ways.

[Nastard]

Man, can we go back to just like, dudes taking the shirts off and chest bumping screaming, "THROW A PUNCH BRO, NO YOU THROW A PUNCH FIRST BRO, I'M NOT STARTING THIS SHIT BRO, COME AT ME BRO." before the two of them end up embraced, throwing fisticuffs as someone looking on with a phone recording the scuffle screams "WORLD STARRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and sells the video to TMZ for a few grand.

Fuckin guns ruining what could have been top quality entertainment.

As barbaric (and hilarious) as that situation is, at least there's some minor degree of honor in two men resolving conflict with their own two hands. Using the iwin button that is a gun against an unarmed opponent means you're such a wimp you couldn't possibly do it on your own.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Man, can we go back to just like, dudes taking the shirts off and chest bumping screaming, "THROW A PUNCH BRO, NO YOU THROW A PUNCH FIRST BRO, I'M NOT STARTING THIS SHIT BRO, COME AT ME BRO." before the two of them end up embraced, throwing fisticuffs as someone looking on with a phone recording the scuffle screams "WORLD STARRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and sells the video to TMZ for a few grand.

Fuckin guns ruining what could have been top quality entertainment.

That was never entertaining healthy and has always been part of the problem of this stupidity.

[Edge-]

That was never entertaining healthy and has always been part of the problem of this stupidity.

I dunno about you, but seeing two out of shape dudes wheezing after spending 10 minutes bloviating and then throwing a few punches is top quality entertainment.

[Doctor Amadeus]

As barbaric (and hilarious) as that situation is, at least there's some minor degree of honor in two men resolving conflict with their own two hands. Using the iwin button that is a gun against an unarmed opponent means you're such a wimp you couldn't possibly do it on your own.

No there was nothing honorable about that situation ever, it's stupidity, and it's often times enabled by the fact people reward it with attention or 15 mins of fame. Well everybody wants to be on World Star Until something like this happens.

"Oh they took it too far" Really exactly because they didn't handle it like everyone expected, because sometimes when people behave a certain way it isn't actually funny, but actually serious.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Just that - the couple did play a role. It might affect a court case. For instance, if Rob came up and start yelling at Frank, calling him names and shouting insults and not backing down, and then Frank hit him, in a court case those would be extenuating circumstances.

That's a poor example. There are leagues of difference between punching a loud mouth and shooting him repeatedly, returning to your home to grab another weapon and going back out to shoot them again. I highly doubt his legal representatives would make attempts at such a defense.

In fact, witnesses are now saying the couple actually started the violence first. Not that shooting is any kind of appropriate response - but the facts seem to still be coming in.

And had he shot the man immediately after that assault.. he might have had a case for self-defense. Pulling out the gun and shooting them would be considered "re-escalation". Going back to get his rifle so he can deliver killing shots brings it way over the top.

NOW, that being said, going back to get another gun to finish the job is at another level of fucked up. I want to really be clear here that regardless of the conversation, the shooters actions here were not justified.

You say that...but at the same time you try to present the couples behaviour as mitigating factors...to the point where you even suggest that it might affect the outcome of a trial.

[Shadowferal]

As barbaric (and hilarious) as that situation is, at least there's some minor degree of honor in two men resolving conflict with their own two hands. Using the iwin button that is a gun against an unarmed opponent means you're such a wimp you couldn't possibly do it on your own.

Thinking the same.
Dude pussied out...and then added to it by suicide.

[cubby]

That's a poor example. There are leagues of difference between punching a loud mouth and shooting him repeatedly, returning to your home to grab another weapon and going back out to shoot them again. I highly doubt his legal representatives would make attempts at such a defense.

Because someone asked me, and I'm an attorney - so I gave an example of mitigating circumstances in a violent situation. I happen to agree with you otherwise.

And had he shot the man immediately after that assault.. he might have had a case for self-defense. Pulling out the gun and shooting them would be considered "re-escalation". Going back to get his rifle so he can deliver killing shots brings it way over the top.

Agreed.

You say that...but at the same time you try to present the couples behaviour as mitigating factors...to the point where you even suggest that it might affect the outcome of a trial.

We're riding on nuances here, and I usually get into trouble trying this in a written communication forum. So I apologize ahead of time if I'm not as clear as I would like to be. My point is that the couple played a part in escalating the antagonism and violence in this situation. They are not innocent here. However, is what they did justification for being shot repeatedly? No, not at all.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I dunno about you, but seeing two out of shape dudes wheezing after spending 10 minutes bloviating and then throwing a few punches is top quality entertainment.

LOL Yes haha too bad one of these man children were allowed to own a gun.

[draynay]

Fuckin guns ruining what could have been top quality entertainment.

Dangit Edge, you're steering the convo into sad rozz territory, don't make rozz sad.

[Zaktar]

Again you're a fan of the fuck your feelings and it doesn't matter what you say or how you treat people the rules says this or that. Well guess what rules don't keep you safe and there is no such thing as a vacuum in situations like this.

You're not trying to get me to think objectively either, you are trying to get me to say it is ok to do whatever you want treat people however you want and whatever you can get away with so long as it's with in the rules as you see them and everything is ok.

Well it isn't and that isn't reality. the people that got shot and killed "DIDN'T DESERVE THEIR FATE" but they weren't innocent and obviously they felt being rude belittling and vicious was the way to deal with a neighbor. People are not always obliged to turn the other cheek or look out for OTHERS best interest when they don't give a shit.


The selfishness and thoughtless behavior here went both ways.

You want to make some argument about their behavior - okay - but what does that have to do with shooting them while they're already wounded laying prone on the ground? The shooter was a piece of shit. They may have been rude to him - certainly they were in that video - but we know very little about what happened. Given that he thought it through, fetched a bigger gun, then came out and executed them - I tend to think he was an unreasonable person. What unreasonable things did he do to provoke their anger that day? We could loop on this endlessly, try to figure out which party was more rude pre-shooting. At the end of the day, the couple's shittiness was of the normal, everyday kind - the shooter crossed into monster territory, and you seem to be looking for reasons to excuse him for that.