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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire ShadowofVashj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Blizzard:
    Instructions unclear, but we will nerf PvP gearing to closer match the misery of raiding.
    Lol nailed it. I agree with the poster though, I miss justice and valor vendors. And it doesn't have to be the whole loot table, just like in wotlk. It can be a couple of big pieces and also fill in the gaps loot.

    While we're at it can we bring back class raid sets please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Depends on the class/spec. As an Outlaw Rogue what want:

    Versatility = Haste > Crit >>>>>> Mastery

    So PvP gear is pretty darn great :b
    Sub rogue as well... This is part of the problem with the current system though, classes that benefit from versatility more have an advantage from the pvp gear pipeline.

  2. #42
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    If you do a raid and go through 5 bosses and you end up getting no loot via personal loot. That would get demoralizing over time. I don't know exactly the "right" answer but....I certainly prefer bonus loot tokens(from previous expansions).
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I rather have less loot than pvp loot in pve... i like killing bosses and hoping for that specific loot piece.
    Otherwise just remove loot alltogether. The whole feeling of a game where you kill bosses who drop loot is gone otherwise.

    Honestly i think that would be 1.000.000 times worse than reducing the amount of loot further.

    Also you not getting loot doesnt make it overall bad. My guild does not have a huge problem. We start progressing into mythic right now. Everyone is around 213. Killed Denathrius heroic and the first two in Mythic today for the first time
    You getting loot doesn't make it overall good either. And I find it a little hard to believe that your entire guild is around 213 (like you claim) and only get gear from the raid (like you chose to imply).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subrias View Post
    10% chance to get loot is on average what it was before everything became loot pinata. in vanilla you got 4 items for 40 people. thats 10% chance. in bc in the 25 man raids you got 2 or 3 for 25 people. roughly the same percentage same in wrath unless you did hard modes. honeslty i havent had a hard time gearing at all. sure i got my roughly free 200 gear at the start, but im 215 now and i get like 1 piece of loot a week from the vault and 1 or 2 upgrades from the raid itself. I think thats fine honestly. i have yet to not get an upgrade every week out of my vault. where as in BC, i literally had my bow from karazan until i got the bow off illidan because no weapon ever dropped. its all rng i suppose, but i honestly am ok with how the raid items work... Dungeons on the other hand seem slightly stingy with loot.
    Its 2021. We aren't playing vanilla.

    And just because we had to deal with stupid shit 15-16 years ago, doesnt mean the same stupid shit would good today.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    If there's one complaint I see all over the place, it's that raids don't drop enough loot, and I experience that too; often times I only get 1 item from a full 10/10 CN clear, maybe two if I'm lucky, and most of the time it's things I don't need that just end up getting vendored/traded to other people. The last time I did a Heroic clear, I ended up getting some leggings that I already have, and the token for an offhand...when I've already got a 213 2hander. So effectively nothing.

    But then I look at PvP and as far as I can tell, you just do the PvP activities, get points, and then buy the exact gear you want from the vendor. No loot drama, no RNG, no bullshit.

    Why can't PvE work like that? Just have bosses drop badges/points that we use to buy gear from vendors. No more getting pissed off at not having the right item drop, no more having 5 people whisper you "need that? need that? need that?" every time you get loot, no more getting things with the wrong stats, etc. You can funnel your points towards the items you want, instead of being at the mercy of loot RNG.
    Because that would make way too much sense. Also they have this dumb idea that people will stay subbed while getting frustrated instead of just quitting.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    This, basically.
    And then gamble-addicted raiders with Stockholm's syndrome come along and defend the practice.
    Riiiight. Because anyone who disagrees with you must have a serious psychological condition.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    You getting loot doesn't make it overall good either. And I find it a little hard to believe that your entire guild is around 213 (like you claim) and only get gear from the raid (like you chose to imply).

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    Its 2021. We aren't playing vanilla.

    And just because we had to deal with stupid shit 15-16 years ago, doesnt mean the same stupid shit would good today.
    Where did i imply anything? Sure a few do Mythic plus. Most don't. No one does PvP but two people. it has been over two month of loot. 213 is about to be expected.
    If we would get 4-5 pieces.... well fuck that game would have been over after a month regarding loot. Quite boring.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    What you fail to get because you are probably too low on the skill spectrum is that pvp and pve operate differently.

    In PvP you get gear according to your skill: You need to hit that 1600 rating thru grinding and actually being good at the game (to a degree, 1600 is not that hard).
    In raids or M+ you can just do a 5-10 min fight for a loot and you can be easily carried thru it. Your personal input is not as important as it is in 2v2 or 3v3 (or even rated bg's).

    While yes, it is generally easier to gather gear from PvP IF you are good at it, the majority of players are actually not good at it or don't even play it at all.
    Tell is more about how pressing 3 buttons is skill. What about those 1-button druid macros?

    "Skill". Fucking rofl.

  8. #48
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    You all started playing in Legion or what? Loot only became such a shitfest in recent years. It's finally back to its roots.
    Loot wasn't this bad back in TBC and WotLK, this is the first time loot has been this awful since Classic.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Loot wasn't this bad back in TBC and WotLK, this is the first time loot has been this awful since Classic.
    Basically this. It's funny how everyone forgot there are expansions in between Vanilla and Personal Loot. I started playing during BC and couldn't believe people farmed MC for gear at the rate of 2 drops per boss for a 40 man, while Karazhan drops at least 2 items per boss for 10 people, and had more bosses, not counting the 3 25 man bosses, which dropped 5 items each.

    So if you want to say "the current situation regarding raid loot rate is just like Vanilla", OK, but gearing and loot in Vanilla was pretty awful. At least that was the consensus of everyone I played with in BC who previously played Vanilla. I can recall no forum posts during BC about how bosses were dropping too much loot.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  10. #50
    They need to give you that carrot to chase. Thing is the carrot you get is always a different colour and shape to the one you want, so you gotta carry on chasin'
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Riiiight. Because anyone who disagrees with you must have a serious psychological condition.
    Not necessarily, but on this particular topic it often turns out to be the case whenever i inquire further.

    I could pretend to be blind i suppose, but there's no point in that.
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    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by xero5141 View Post
    Your class or spec may be that way, but for (I'm making an educated guess here) the majority of specs, the ilvl hike for pvp gear over pve will be enough for them to use pvp gear in pve. For instance, on my hunter, the best two trinkets at anything below heroic ilvl are the two pvp trinkets. If you look at warcraftlogs, there are very few instances of top parses without pvp trinkets because they're just better.
    Yeah, did point out that there are trinkets that are good for some specs. And I do agree that the mythic raiders and high end(20 m+) are having a hard time to get upgrades. Anything below that(my level) however I find the options in pve more than good enough.

    I'll probably do some pvp for my mage for the trinket when I am done on my main to get pvp transmogs, but that is the same as in BfA 8.3 when the pvp trinket also were good.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    You getting loot doesn't make it overall good either. And I find it a little hard to believe that your entire guild is around 213 (like you claim) and only get gear from the raid (like you chose to imply).

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    Its 2021. We aren't playing vanilla.

    And just because we had to deal with stupid shit 15-16 years ago, doesnt mean the same stupid shit would good today.
    and yet everyone wants vanilla bc and wrath servers.. lol.... my point was that people complain no matter how loot is done. now they are complaining because they dont get enough loot when we get as much (actually more) than we did during the expansions that are generally considered to be the best ones. then in mop they made it all loot pinata because of how much more RNG they added with titanforging and random upgrading

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Why can't PvE work like that?
    Because of lock outs and the time to consume the content. With raids you are designed to do it once a week and you can't repeat it for more stuff. So if they include that currency in other PvE forms it would just shift the focus to those other forms. Which is why even back in TBC you farmed for badges in specific instances to help supplement your loot.

    Now that isn't automatically a bad thing. But it is bad for the Raiding model. This is also why Mythic+ is popular and such an issue for gearing when compared to the traditional model WoW has used for years. It is repeatable content that offers a gear reward that can be close to or equal to what you can get raiding depending on how far you push.

    Raiding would essentially be a thing of the past with PvP style gearing in PvE because you would just farm Mythic+ endlessly until you get your BiS gear then cheese the raid for sight seeing. Which might not be a bad direction to go but it would be a major shift in focus for the game as a whole. There are some merits to having less restrictions on content and have PvE be more like the lobby games that are so popular now a days.

    Where you have more random/objective gameplay and then redeem points for gear. It would certainly make content like islands or dungeons be less about speed running with the best raider.io score and comps. But that type of overhaul is hard for a established game. And could easily backfire even if the status quo isn't that great.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    And getting fucked over by RNG, not getting the thing you want week after week after week is......fun?

    well okay, if you're a masochist, I suppose
    A little bit like fishing. You don't get a fish everytime, but when you get a big one its alot more interesting than picking up fishsticks at the supermarket.

    Sure the supermarket is more efficient.

    I guess its a question about wether you play for the journey or the destination.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So if they include that currency in other PvE forms
    I never mentioned doing that. Only raids, not "other pve forms".

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Raiding would essentially be a thing of the past ... because you would just farm Mythic+ endlessly until you get your BiS gear
    ...I mean, this is what it's like right now. Outside of trinkets/weapons, you can get better gear from M+ than Normal and Heroic raids. And yet, raiding is NOT "a thing of the past".

    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    I guess its a question about wether you play for the journey or the destination.
    Getting fucked by RNG every week isn't really "playing for the journey". Retail doesn't have the same "journey" to it that old versions of WoW do.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I never mentioned doing that. Only raids, not "other pve forms". ...I mean, this is what it's like right now. Outside of trinkets/weapons, you can get better gear from M+ than Normal and Heroic raids.
    Not including Mythic+ is like excluding Rated Battlegrounds and Arena for the same system. But even then only having the system for raiding won't work out that well because of the once a week lock out. PvP isn't limited by that even if some rewards are more for the first win (or weekly quests). That means that you would be able to buy/upgrade from raids relatively quickly which destablizes other forms of PvE like Mythic+

    Raiding is just a poor form of gear distribution when other methods exist. Even prior to Mythic+ Blizzard allows had valor, badgers, etc gained from more then just the raid lockout. So it doesn't matter if you never mentioned it because that would be the scope of the idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Getting fucked by RNG every week isn't really "playing for the journey". Retail doesn't have the same "journey" to it that old versions of WoW do.
    It has the same exact journey. The only difference is the players perception. People in TBC got screwed the entire expansion when their BIS items never dropped. While others could craft gear and have it remain BIS or near to it for the rest of the expansion. There were always people getting screwed. The reason why the perception of it is different now is because there are a ton of catch ups to get gear, Mythic+ having no lockout, and the seasonal catch ups.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Tell is more about how pressing 3 buttons is skill. What about those 1-button druid macros?

    "Skill". Fucking rofl.
    Pvp will always demand more skill than pve. I mean kinda delusional to believe otherwise. We are talking scripted encounters with only a handful of mechanics vs human intelligence and needing to know hundreds of abilities for every spec and the counterplays for them. A lot of pve'ers think they're stuck at 1400 because "pvp takes no skill and is just macros" but the reality is that they're just shit and it only gets exposed when they try rated pvp.

    Every raider would improve a lot if they tried to hit at least 2100 (without getting boosted like 90% of RWF raiders).

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    Pvp will always demand more skill than pve. I mean kinda delusional to believe otherwise. We are talking scripted encounters with only a handful of mechanics vs human intelligence and needing to know hundreds of abilities for every spec and the counterplays for them. A lot of pve'ers think they're stuck at 1400 because "pvp takes no skill and is just macros" but the reality is that they're just shit and it only gets exposed when they try rated pvp.
    Dial down the exaggerations. There are not hundreds of abilities for every spec let alone counter plays for each. Does PvP take skill? Sure. Does it take more or less then comparable PvE? Not really.

    Also remember this?
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    You would have a point if every keyboard-turning paladin and moonkin couldn't get targeted heroic raid level gear from a few arena matches per week at a low rating.
    Guess it doesn't always demand more skill. Weird right?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-02-10 at 03:27 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Why do people keep saying this? There are almost no items in vanilla that "40 people" all want.
    2 pieces of loot drop per boss in a 40 man raid. And say you have 9 other Mages in your grp that all want the same weapon or item. It's gonna be a while. And it will take much longer then even in Shadowlands.

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