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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Do you have any examples of ETC being an actual lore character and participating in actual WoW lore?

    Primitive Orcs on the back of Kodos beating drums doesn’t really mesh with Tauren, Undead, and Orcs playing punk music with modern day rock instruments. In fact, the latter doesn’t mesh with anything in Warcraft at all.
    You know, they made an entire questline with an easter egg character to Indiana Jones. Who's to say which cameo character is lore-valid and which is not ?

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Primitive Orcs on the back of Kodos beating drums doesn’t really mesh with Tauren, Undead, and Orcs playing punk music with modern day rock instruments. In fact, the latter doesn’t mesh with anything in Warcraft at all.
    Nothing really meshes if you're advocating for giant mech suits romping around next to dudes in cloth and plate.

    The absurdity in WoW isn't something to be concerned with, especially if you once made the case that giant pocket factories and explosive mechanical animals are fine in the context of class mechanics.

    Rock and Roll is no more absurd than giant mechs and drunken pandas.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-22 at 08:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So would bards as a new playable class.

    Blizzard would give them the aesthetics necessary to fit Warcraft as a setting.
    Never said they aren't.

    As long as one spec grounds the class in the universe, they could go crazy with a heavy metal spec all they want. Just like how Monk has a crazy Brewmaster spec that is all about getting drunk to tank.
    No. Heavy metal does not fit the aesthetic of WoW (outside of jokes). Drinking is as old as history. No reason why it wouldn't fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Rock and Roll is no more absurd than giant mechs and drunken pandas.
    It actually is, because it's not grounded in lore.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-08-22 at 08:22 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No. Heavy metal does not fit the aesthetic of WoW (outside of jokes). Drinking is as old as history. No reason why it wouldn't fit.
    Sure it fits.

    Grom Hellscream in WC2 was metal as fuck.

    ETC's members would all fit in any raid, even with their metal inspired instruments. The Arcanite Ripper and Sun Lute were even obtainable weapons that let you turn into ETC members and play rock music. This is as far back as TBC.

    Did you never play TBC or get these items? Cuz they were legit epic weapons, not just toys.

    It actually is, because it's not grounded in lore.
    Nothing is 'grounded in lore' until it actually enters lore.

    Pandaria wasn't even truly grounded in lore until Mists of Pandaria formally introduced it.

    Rock and roll does exist in WoW since ETC and Blight Boar are both canonical.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-22 at 08:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Never said they aren't.



    No. Heavy metal does not fit the aesthetic of WoW (outside of jokes). Drinking is as old as history. No reason why it wouldn't fit.



    It actually is, because it's not grounded in lore.
    Warcraft has involved rock and roll as an aesthetic for a long time. Remember when you beat the Warcraft 3 campaign and were rewarded with a rock concert staring Arthas as the lead guitarist or ETC? What about the quest at the Darkmoon Faire with the band Blightboar? Or how so much of the early aesthetic of Warcraft was based on heavy metal album covers?

    If you're looking for lore or aesthetics for the bard to be based around, the Darkmoon Faire is chocked full of it, not to mention how much the setting itself owes to the aesthetics of heavy metal.

  6. #186
    Never liked bards in EQ.
    A year after the debacle that was WoD I quit and still haven't returned. Although I used to think I would. If they make bards then I won't bother.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by AKCephalopod View Post
    Warcraft has involved rock and roll as an aesthetic for a long time. Remember when you beat the Warcraft 3 campaign and were rewarded with a rock concert staring Arthas as the lead guitarist or ETC? What about the quest at the Darkmoon Faire with the band Blightboar? Or how so much of the early aesthetic of Warcraft was based on heavy metal album covers?

    If you're looking for lore or aesthetics for the bard to be based around, the Darkmoon Faire is chocked full of it, not to mention how much the setting itself owes to the aesthetics of heavy metal.
    And don't forget Steve Danuser admitting he wanted Garrosh ending to be "metal as fuck", lol

  8. #188
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    They are totally a thing, just not playable for reasons
    They're spoof characters of a Blizzard employee cover band. There's zero lore surrounding any of those characters, including ETC, which is a spoof of the Tauren Chieftain from WC3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    You know, they made an entire questline with an easter egg character to Indiana Jones. Who's to say which cameo character is lore-valid and which is not ?
    Considering that the ETC spoof has been around for almost 20 years and there's still no actual lore around it, I think it's fair to say that it isn't lore-valid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Nothing really meshes if you're advocating for giant mech suits romping around next to dudes in cloth and plate.
    Who needs to advocate for it? Blizzard put giant mech suits in the game, and they're lore based.

    There's a vast difference between a class based on the technology of Gnomes and Goblins, and a class based on a Blizzard employee cover band.


    Rock and Roll is no more absurd than giant mechs and drunken pandas.
    Uh, yes it is. You can explain the giant mechs and Pandaren martial arts. Good luck explaining why a Tauren is running around Azeroth wearing a glam rock outfit and hitting people with an electric guitar.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Considering that the ETC spoof has been around for almost 20 years and there's still no actual lore around it, I think it's fair to say that it isn't lore-valid.
    I wonder that you would consider lore to be valid. They have a presence ingame, anchored by npc dialogs. Would you require them to have a quest dedicated to them, a background ?

  10. #190
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They're spoof characters of a Blizzard employee cover band. There's zero lore surrounding any of those characters, including ETC, which is a spoof of the Tauren Chieftain from WC3.
    The lore is that they are a band that plays in Darkmoon Faire and hangs out in Silvermoon
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  11. #191
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    I wonder that you would consider lore to be valid. They have a presence ingame, anchored by npc dialogs. Would you require them to have a quest dedicated to them, a background ?
    I would require those characters to actually participate in the general lore of the game. Not simply be wallpaper for a variety of side activities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The lore is that they are a band that plays in Darkmoon Faire and hangs out in Silvermoon
    Which means they aren't heroes, just some random NPCs no different than shopkeepers or townsfolk. WoW's classes (especially the expansion classes) are based on heroes.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They're spoof characters of a Blizzard employee cover band. There's zero lore surrounding any of those characters, including ETC, which is a spoof of the Tauren Chieftain from WC3.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Considering that the ETC spoof has been around for almost 20 years and there's still no actual lore around it, I think it's fair to say that it isn't lore-valid.

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    Who needs to advocate for it? Blizzard put giant mech suits in the game, and they're lore based.

    There's a vast difference between a class based on the technology of Gnomes and Goblins, and a class based on a Blizzard employee cover band.



    Uh, yes it is. You can explain the giant mechs and Pandaren martial arts. Good luck explaining why a Tauren is running around Azeroth wearing a glam rock outfit and hitting people with an electric guitar.
    There is lore around it. They're a band in the world. Do you think we need the backstory of all the band members before they're a valid part of the lore? There are plenty of characters we don't have any background on and yet are considered perfectly valid parts of the lore, even other tribute characters. The many characters and items related to Alex Afrasaibi come to mind.

    Elite Tauren Chieftains have played in many locations, including Shattrath, BRD, Darkmoon Faire, and Caverns of time. Not to mention they're the main point of the Horde Childrens Day questline. That questline makes it obvious that they're popular in universe. In fact, they're still present in Silvermoon for this exact quest.

    Ignoring that ETC is part of the lore makes no sense. They're obviously part of the world. The only reason to ignore their place in WoW is because you don't like it. You don't have to pretend they don't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I would require those characters to actually participate in the general lore of the game. Not simply be wallpaper for a variety of side activities.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which means they aren't heroes, just some random NPCs no different than shopkeepers or townsfolk. WoW's classes (especially the expansion classes) are based on heroes.
    Demon Hunters and Death Knights weren't heroes until Blizzard made them be. Demon Hunters were villains following Illidan and the only ones you could have called "heroes" were those who are open traitors, of which there were only two examples pre-legion. Death Knights, likewise, were strictly villains we fought before circumstances contrived to make them on our side.

    On the lore part, that also makes a lot of other characters not actually part of the lore. Anyone at the Darkmoon Fair, anyone from any Holiday, any character in an order hall who does nothing and is just there as a name. There were also many characters who were just "wallpaper" before blizzard made them important in future expansions. My point being that simply existing in the world is enough for Blizzard to make a character playable.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, yes it is. You can explain the giant mechs and Pandaren martial arts. Good luck explaining why a Tauren is running around Azeroth wearing a glam rock outfit and hitting people with an electric guitar.
    You mean like we already had in TBC with the guitar and bass Axe weapons?

    They were legit Epic weapons that were BIS for Paladins and Warriors for quite a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #194
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCephalopod View Post
    There is lore around it. They're a band in the world. Do you think we need the backstory of all the band members before they're a valid part of the lore? There are plenty of characters we don't have any background on and yet are considered perfectly valid parts of the lore, even other tribute characters. The many characters and items related to Alex Afrasaibi come to mind.

    Elite Tauren Chieftains have played in many locations, including Shattrath, BRD, Darkmoon Faire, and Caverns of time. Not to mention they're the main point of the Horde Childrens Day questline. That questline makes it obvious that they're popular in universe. In fact, they're still present in Silvermoon for this exact quest.

    Ignoring that ETC is part of the lore makes no sense. They're obviously part of the world. The only reason to ignore their place in WoW is because you don't like it. You don't have to pretend they don't exist.
    What major storylines have they taken part in? What are their heroic exploits? Where are similar characters like them in order to justify a class?

    If we can't answer those questions, then they aren't really lore characters.

    Demon Hunters and Death Knights weren't heroes until Blizzard made them be. Demon Hunters were villains following Illidan and the only ones you could have called "heroes" were those who are open traitors, of which there were only two examples pre-legion. Death Knights, likewise, were strictly villains we fought before circumstances contrived to make them on our side.
    Villains can also be considered a "hero" character. Hero characters are not always aligned with good.

    On the lore part, that also makes a lot of other characters not actually part of the lore. Anyone at the Darkmoon Fair, anyone from any Holiday, any character in an order hall who does nothing and is just there as a name. There were also many characters who were just "wallpaper" before blizzard made them important in future expansions. My point being that simply existing in the world is enough for Blizzard to make a character playable.
    "Wallpaper" is exactly what I would classify characters like the ETC as. Nothing more than silly spoofs to add some levity to the world.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You mean like we already had in TBC with the guitar and bass Axe weapons?

    They were legit Epic weapons that were BIS for Paladins and Warriors for quite a while.
    There's a difference between creating a one-off weapon for shits and giggles, and creating an entire class that requires a legitimate lore basis.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There's a difference between creating a one-off weapon for shits and giggles, and creating an entire class that requires a legitimate lore basis.
    And they proven that they can and will do it when they made Brewmaster into a full spec for the Monk class with kegs and all intact.

    So what exactly is so off about Rock and Roll when it already fits the aesthetics from punk rock Forsaken hairstyles to a clans literally named after Rock and Roll references (Black Tooth Grin) and weapons styled after musical instruments.

    Are you saying Blizzard couldn't have added those because it doesn't fit Warcraft? Because if so, then you're just flat out wrong, and more importantly, a liar.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-23 at 02:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #196
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And they proven that they can and will do it when they made Brewmaster into a full spec for the Monk class with kegs and all intact.
    Er, the Brewmaster concept works just fine with a Monk concept because the Brewmaster is loosely based on an actual style of Chinese martial arts. The Monk class as a concept is also loosely based on Chinese martial arts. Further, Blizzard established an entire layer of lore surrounding Chen Stormstout, the Pandaren race, Brewmasters, and Pandaria in of itself. Also Blizzard made Chen a hero within Warcraft's storyline and had him participate in a major event in Warcraft's history.

    You really can't compare that to what we have with ETC; A bunch of spoof characters who pop up and play songs from time to time.

    So what exactly is so off about Rock and Roll when it already fits the aesthetics from punk rock Forsaken hairstyles to a clans literally named after Rock and Roll references (Black Tooth Grin) and weapons styled after musical instruments.

    Are you saying Blizzard couldn't have added those because it doesn't fit Warcraft? Because if so, then you're just flat out wrong, and more importantly, a liar.
    Seriously?

    There's a huge difference between Blizzard pulling aesthetics from goth and punk for the Undead race, and creating a class based around rock and heavy metal music in a high fantasy game.

    Is there a class of adventurers that are using heavy metal music and electric guitars to kill monsters? The answer is simply no, and they would never create such a class because it would be jumping the shark on multiple levels.

  17. #197
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    This is amazing, and I hope it happens. 10/10

    Blizzard devs, if you're reading this, STOP ACTING INAPPROPRIATELY AND DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR A CHANGE.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Er, the Brewmaster concept works just fine with a Monk concept because the Brewmaster is loosely based on an actual style of Chinese martial arts. The Monk class as a concept is also loosely based on Chinese martial arts. Further, Blizzard established an entire layer of lore surrounding Chen Stormstout, the Pandaren race, Brewmasters, and Pandaria in of itself. Also Blizzard made Chen a hero within Warcraft's storyline and had him participate in a major event in Warcraft's history.

    You really can't compare that to what we have with ETC; A bunch of spoof characters who pop up and play songs from time to time.



    Seriously?

    There's a huge difference between Blizzard pulling aesthetics from goth and punk for the Undead race, and creating a class based around rock and heavy metal music in a high fantasy game.

    Is there a class of adventurers that are using heavy metal music and electric guitars to kill monsters? The answer is simply no, and they would never create such a class because it would be jumping the shark on multiple levels.
    This is incredibly lame thinking, especially in fantasy settings. Bards have been a mainstay for a very very long time, like 1976 for DND. Thinking they don’t fit in wow because they aren’t in it currently just doesn’t make sense.

  19. #199
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    This is incredibly lame thinking, especially in fantasy settings. Bards have been a mainstay for a very very long time, like 1976 for DND. Thinking they don’t fit in wow because they aren’t in it currently just doesn’t make sense.
    Except they have never been a mainstay in Warcraft, ever. There was never a Bard hero in WC3. There was never a Bard class in the tabletop Warcraft or WoW games. There are no Bard hero characters in WoW period. Blizzard even made classic Shaman and Paladins take up their niche. So yeah, they don’t fit as a WoW class.

    Think about it; what possible expansion could bring a Bard class into the game? Who would be the major lore character on the cover?

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Also Blizzard made Chen a hero within Warcraft's storyline and had him participate in a major event in Warcraft's history.
    And Hellscream has been at the stage and center of WC2, WC3 and his legacy carried well into WoW.

    Hellscream is metal as fuck.

    I mean you can say heavy metal has no place in WOW all you want, but Blizzard has already shown its been a part of the series since WC2, and the references permeate all of Warcraft lore.

    Black Tooth Grin Clan is a literal reference to Pantera. We have actual Axe weapons that are instruments. We have rock concerts in the game every month. How is the aesthetic not part of WoW?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-23 at 04:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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