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  1. #21
    Great concept OP, you made Bard look cool and disereable, but it somehow doesn't seem to fit with the WoW we know.

    I think the only idea people have of a "bard" in WoW is related to the Tauren chieftains or whatever that band with ETC is called.

    I love new classes though, so i really enjoyed seeing your concept. I wish we couldhave all these cool concepts like Bard, Necromancer, Tinker, etc. Classes are exciting to me. They are different ways to play the same content and they always add so much to the game.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    It's pretty telling when people will just rubbish your idea because it isn't ideal for WoW. What they don't get is that this is fan work and shows someones love and dedication to their hobby. While I personally don't see support classes becoming a thing in WoW again I think you've done a bang up job expressing this class.
    But this is a WoW-forum so it is to be expected that people look at the OPs work through the lense of a WoW-player.
    Furthermore his work, which is very well done, is presented as a class concept and he should expect it to be judged as such, well made or not.

    My own comments:
    1. The art, don't know if it is OPs original art or not, does not say WoW to me. Especially anime girls with stockings remind me more of some Asian stuff
    2. A class with different roles has its problems as it will only have 1 spec of each type = big risk of those specs not being viable
    3. The selection of roles: Healer, melee and ranged. There is already far to many melee classes and specs compared to raid spots or spots in dungeons. Another melee spec is not realistic/useful. The same can be said for healers where there is also a great competition for spots.
    4. A class/spec that uses skills to buff other raid members isn't feasible in WoW. Such a spec would either do the same dps/healing as "normal" specs + make the rest of the group do more dps/healing and therefore be mandatory to stack or would be tuned so low in damage/healing that the buff it brings to the party would not make up for its bad performance. Just look at PI right now which leads to degenerate game play.

    P.S. The concept is very well made, thought out and presented, but doesn't fit WoWs art style and gameplay.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And? forward-slash ten characters.
    if you base a "new" class on a mixture of ideas of the past 35 years with bards being in computer games its boring. No visual presentation can hide this fact.

  4. #24
    Nicely done. If it comes close to the EverQuest bard class, which is the greatest of any games out there imho, then it's going to be a success. Too bad Blizz has other plans. Yes, I can see the future. Oh, btw, best regards from Chromie.

  5. #25
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    if you base a "new" class on a mixture of ideas of the past 35 years with bards being in computer games its boring. No visual presentation can hide this fact.
    Congratulations.

    You just described every single class not only in WoW, but all games in general. All classes are made with a "mixture of ideas of the past 35 years". No class is 100% original, or even 50% original, or even 25% original!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    While this concept is very well done, I think the comments show why having a prominent lore character to represent the class concept is very important. Folks saying this is more fitting for another game are mainly doing so because there’s nothing anchoring this concept in WoW.
    Funny how nobody whatsoever mentioned the lack of "prominent lore character" here until you decided to bring it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #26
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    While I personally don't like Bard Classes, this is amazing and the amount of work that went into this is impressive.
    10/10!

  7. #27
    A+ for effort. It's pretty impressive work.

    I don't believe that it would actually viably work as written though. They've moved completely away from "Support" classes enough that a rejiggering of all classes/trinity would be needed to get this to NOT be a weird tack on to the holy trinity. I'm not saying I'm against that, but of all of the proposed classes so far, this one is the farthest from current reality.

  8. #28
    nice effort,and yeah,would tottaly like to see a real support class

    the only issue i see with this is that in order for a class like this to work and be worth it,it would have to be mandatory,so it basicaly wouldnt just be a new class but a new 4th role,but limited to just ONE class,its a bit of a risky concept

    you end up either with it not being fun but people have to have it,or it being to fun or op and not having enough room for it

    the balance for this would be hard

  9. #29
    No, this is not true and stop generalising. Mythology and computergames are not the same.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Congratulations.

    You just described every single class not only in WoW, but all games in general. All classes are made with a "mixture of ideas of the past 35 years". No class is 100% original, or even 50% original, or even 25% original!
    No, this is not true and stop generalising. Mythology and computergames are not the same. Stop whining.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Funny how nobody whatsoever mentioned the lack of "prominent lore character" here until you decided to bring it up.
    I didn't need to mention it. Replies here are consistently noting that while the write up is well done (I would say it's exceptionally well done), the concept doesn't feel like WoW due to the lack of major Bard characters in the game. Note that this didn't happen in his Necromancer thread. Why? Because Necromancers are rather major antagonists in WoW, and there are multiple necromancer characters in the Warcraft franchise.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-02-09 at 06:08 PM.

  11. #31
    When the bards party dies, and he knows it is his time to shine and save the day...He bust out his Guitar, strums the strings and yells "TOSS A COIN TO YOUR WITCHER!!!!" as tears roll down his face and the demonic being from the twisting nether roars at him in a full charge.

  12. #32
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    No, this is not true and stop generalising. Mythology and computergames are not the same. Stop whining.
    I never even mentioned mythology. I specifically mentioned "games in general". Meaning that no player class in gaming will ever be even a quarter original, because some other game will also have a class that is similar. On top of that, there is no difference whatsoever in taking inspiration from mythology, and taking inspiration from other games. In both cases is you working upon the work of others.

    If anything, you are the one whining, considering your original post was an oh-so-helpful "FFXIV" and nothing else, and when inquired what you meant that, you complain about the OP taking inspiration from outside sources.

    Pointing out the absurdity of your argument is not "whining".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I didn't need to mention it.
    I agree. You didn't have to mention it, but you did it anyways, to further your agendas.

    Replies here are consistently noting that while the write up is well done (I would say it's exceptionally well done), the concept doesn't feel like WoW due to the lack of major Bard characters in the game.
    I'll repeat: nobody whatsoever mentioned the "lack of prominent lore character" here until you decided to bring it up. You're making shit up, here.

    Note that this didn't happen in his Necromancer thread. Why?
    Because many have this demonstrably erroneous idea that "bards can only be support classes and nothing else".
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  13. #33
    OP - kudos and sincere thanks for all the thoughtful hard work that went into this, and for the courage to post it where inevitably some toxic folks will attack you for no good reason.

    I think this is a fantastic and gorgeously detailed writeup that should serve as an inspiration to Blizz development. They should pay you to use these ideas, literally.

    WOW needs new classes to keep the game fresh and fun. A lot of people derive much of their enjoyment from playing through the game from a different perspective and with new mechanics, hence the outrageous popularity of alts and races.

    I was frankly shocked that the wow team had the hubris to think they could get away with not introducing at least one new class this expansion. And what a great time it would have been to do so, considering how disappointed so many were with BFA and considering that a new leveling system was introduced. It was a no-brainer...at least it should have been.

    When I look at other games that have so many rich classes and varied gameplay (my personal experience is from FFXI and FFXIV) having various fun classes is a large part of the popularity of those games and is what enables so much replayability.

    in before people who say "we have too many classes they can't balance them" - Newsflash - the classes will never be 'balanced' in the way some of you hope.

    I really think Blizzard needs to take a look at their "dps" culture and redesign the game around inclusion of support classes, more and more varied actual content ( as opposed to endless systems), and greater class design.

    In the words of Don Draper - "That's what the money's for" - They make many millions of dollars in profit and it's time to repay some of that back to the playerbase that provides it. This means putting more resources into fundamentally improving the game.

    I would love to see them introduce Bards and Tinkers to the game. Tinkers still wouldn't be as cool as Puppetmasters from FF 11, but they would be a great addition to the game as support, dps, tank, and heals. Adding Bards would provide multi-spec support as well.

    The game doesn't need drastic change to keep making money. They can keep up this fotm borrowed power rotation for decades. But wouldn't it be so much more FUN, exciting and yes, profitable, if they made a commitment to real innovation, player satisfaction and dynamism in their game?

    Thanks again for your wonderful contribution.
    Last edited by Dinousek; 2021-02-09 at 06:54 PM.

  14. #34
    I support this so much!!!!! Yes please

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I never even mentioned mythology. I specifically mentioned "games in general". Meaning that no player class in gaming will ever be even a quarter original, because some other game will also have a class that is similar. On top of that, there is no difference whatsoever in taking inspiration from mythology, and taking inspiration from other games. In both cases is you working upon the work of others.

    If anything, you are the one whining, considering your original post was an oh-so-helpful "FFXIV" and nothing else, and when inquired what you meant that, you complain about the OP taking inspiration from outside sources.

    Pointing out the absurdity of your argument is not "whining".

    - - - Updated - - -


    I agree. You didn't have to mention it, but you did it anyways, to further your agendas.


    I'll repeat: nobody whatsoever mentioned the "lack of prominent lore character" here until you decided to bring it up. You're making shit up, here.


    Because many have this demonstrably erroneous idea that "bards can only be support classes and nothing else".
    Stop whining again and start to reflect, please.

  16. #36
    Moderator Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Damn yes! Dude you are genius! I dreamed about this for centuries! When this will be someday implemented I'm going to create one. The level of effort you've put into it. I think this deserves to be in a blue forum
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-02-09 at 06:48 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    Hilariously imbalanced mess.

    What I don't understand is why people who want bard in the game can't grasp the fact that it will never work.

    1) their dps is trash and they are full support

    -either overpowered and mandatory (this guy thinks that some of these abilities are ok LOL)
    -or small shit buffs that don't do anything and no one plays one.

    2) they are a "full dps" with ghetto support abilities

    -the dps they bring is good and the support is good (over powered)
    -the dps they bring is good and the support is garbage (might as well just be another dps class)

    The "support role" does not work in wow, unless they reformat dungeons, raids, specs to have MORE support classes/specs than one. Run a RIFT style game where you could run 1-1-1-2.
    I have wanted a full blown support only class for a long time that has the job of buffing friendly targets and debuffing enemies. Id play this in a heartbeat.

  18. #38
    So I took a major nerf bat to quite a few abilities if anyone was concerned with something being too powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    10/10. This is Fantastically done!
    Thank you very much, Teriz!

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    While this concept is very well done, I think the comments show why having a prominent lore character to represent the class concept is very important. Folks saying this is more fitting for another game are mainly doing so because there’s nothing anchoring this concept in WoW.
    I didn't need to mention it. Replies here are consistently noting that while the write up is well done (I would say it's exceptionally well done), the concept doesn't feel like WoW due to the lack of major Bard characters in the game. Note that this didn't happen in his Necromancer thread. Why? Because Necromancers are rather major antagonists in WoW, and there are multiple necromancer characters in the Warcraft franchise.
    I feel like more people are hung up on the notion that the introduction of a Bard class would disrupt the 3 role system in WoW than anything about a lore character. Not to mention, people apparently don't want to see pretty girls in a class concept, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    Hilariously imbalanced mess.

    What I don't understand is why people who want bard in the game can't grasp the fact that it will never work.

    1) their dps is trash and they are full support

    -either overpowered and mandatory (this guy thinks that some of these abilities are ok LOL)
    -or small shit buffs that don't do anything and no one plays one.

    2) they are a "full dps" with ghetto support abilities

    -the dps they bring is good and the support is good (over powered)
    -the dps they bring is good and the support is garbage (might as well just be another dps class)

    The "support role" does not work in wow, unless they reformat dungeons, raids, specs to have MORE support classes/specs than one. Run a RIFT style game where you could run 1-1-1-2.
    I never intended the concept to be only of a "support" role, hence why the 3 roles listed are "healing, ranged, and magic melee."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    Wondering why you chose those characters for Loresong.
    I wanted to choose some of the most iconic figures in WoW lore, with a good balance of "alliance/horde" centric characters.

    The mounts are ok. I personally would prefer a sugar glider looking critter over a flying squirrel. I'm not sure why there is house cat as a mount ..but it doesn't look bad.
    Yes, a sugar glider would be cute too lol. I added the house cat because I was shocked to realize WoW doesn't have an actual "cat" mount - and cats are really popular.

    I couldn't tell if this was legitimate or not, but I felt like someone put effort into making it all. So was just saying a few things. I'm not sure how warmly a bard class would be received in the Warcraft universe. I did play a bard on another game a long time ago. I would need to agree with others that it is usually a very heavy support class. (Usually providing buffs and curses, we don't have much of curses in this particular game. Weakening defenses on monsters etc.)So I don't entirely mind them, just not entirely sure if they fit into this universe for gameplay. Maybe I didn't catch it, but I don't think you mentioned curses. That is what I pretty much think of instantaneously when I think of Bard. Now imagine having a class that shatters resistance on many different levels. How unbalanced PVP would become on top of it? This is probably why they never went the route of curses. You would need a Bard consistently. It's definitely, infinitely, better than Tinker tho.
    My Bard does not have curses but they do have some debuffs. Check out Stifle in the general spells for one.

    Quote Originally Posted by lozza View Post
    I like the concept, Can see that you have put a lot of effort into this one. Personally I don't think Bard will fit into WoW, at least at the moment but some of the abilities I can see being cool in game. I do like your idea of minstrel abilities that buff players rather than flat out heal.

    I think if we are going to see a new class it will likely be one of the already existing NPC classes that we don't have like, Necromancer, Shadow Hunter, Battlemage etc. (Shadow Hunter / Battle Mage future ideas for you? )
    Thank you. You're possibly right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algorath View Post
    I mean... Nah..
    Duly noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creedo View Post
    Love the effort and design put in. Was fun to read; obviously reminds me of the Bard in Rift which was fun to play. Hard to fit this class into WoW, but if could definitely work. Looking forward to your next class design.
    Much appreciated!

    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Wow! I love the amount of thought and effort you put into this, and it's very artistic too. This could be ported in without any changes and work seamlessly!
    Thank you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothal View Post
    I've never liked the idea of a bard in WoW but you sold it to me. Well done!
    The greatest compliment, thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Very cool, genuinely plausible.
    I haven't read all of it, but of the bits i did read i have only minor comments like the bit in the intro about not seeking recognition, as all bards ever do is to seek recognition. I'd change it up to emphasizing that they never sought it for themselves before, formerly seeking it for whoever they sang about.

    Also bonus points for mentioning Murmur, WoW's only true god.
    Thank you. The way I had it worked in my mind....no, they never sought recognition which is why we haven't heard about them and all the amazing things they've done . . . till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia;53002370
    [MENTION=1120085
    Amunrasonther[/MENTION]

    I really enjoyed reading your concept. I think there are many very good ideas here. A wee bit wonky and all over the place on the power spectrum to say the least, in my opinion (and I would end up with a post as big as yours if I were to comment on all the power imbalances I found), but I can see that you worried more about writing a concise class concept than making sure it's balanced, which I can get behind.

    I just think that bards should wear mail, for the reason that the concept is usually seen wearing a combination of leather armor and mail in other fantasy settings, and I think we have enough leather-wearers already, I think we'll all agree.

    All in all, I can really see myself enjoying a class with the mechanics you came up with. After it goes through a fine comb or two to tone down ability power. But otherwise, great concept!
    I've nerfed quite a few abilities and you're right, I was more concerned with about how the class worked and functioned more than balance itself. Let me know what you think of my "balance" changes and if anything still really sticks out to you. As for their armor type, besides the Bard, what class in the future could wear cloth? I feel like Necromancers, Dark Rangers, a Dragon-esq class, and a Tech class are all potential mail-wearing classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JuanSR View Post
    I like your work on this concept.

    I can see the Bard going into WoW, but as the 4th Spec for Hunter, not a full class on its own. Should be a Healer spec, which brings more options to the class. I really think that WoW should work on 4th Specs for some classes (it works for Druid, and could make some classes be more popular and fun to play). I was thinking on 3 specs that could fit very good in retail WoW imho:

    4th spec to Shaman would be great, the Tank one, it fits really good with the class (shamans were able to "tank" in vanilla-early expansions). Wearing mail, 1h and shield, using defensive earth shields, totems for dmge mitigating (earth), dodge (wind), healing (water)..., AOE aggro with weapon enhance so melee hit jumps between enemies like a chain lighting (Thrall's skill in HoTS). Could be very interesting and bring more popularity to the class.

    3th spec to DH would be great too, a Ranged spec (Retail WoW really needs a new ranged spec, since there is no new ranged spec in wow history, only MeleeDPS, Tanks and a Healer). Could use Bow, Crossbow and Gun as weapon, I imagine some kind of ranged with high mobility, demon-vil based magic abilities, slows, leeching, dodge defensive CD, etc...

    Finally, 4th spec to Hunter, a Healer spec, the Bard. Some kind of healer-support that works a bit like Disc Priest. Bard can buff, shield and aoe heal with "song" abilities, then he can deal dmge and heal the buffed allies a % of the damage done. Big powerfull aoe CDs for buffing and shielding for raids and M+, a bit of mobility with speed increase CDs and maybe a dash. Could also have an offensive CD which summons a pet who attack the enemies, the damage deal by the pet also heals buffed allies (like Monk's Chi-Ji or Priest shadowfiend).
    Potentially, I just have a hard time believing blizzard would ever introduce 4th specs for other classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Great concept OP, you made Bard look cool and disereable, but it somehow doesn't seem to fit with the WoW we know.

    I think the only idea people have of a "bard" in WoW is related to the Tauren chieftains or whatever that band with ETC is called.

    I love new classes though, so i really enjoyed seeing your concept. I wish we couldhave all these cool concepts like Bard, Necromancer, Tinker, etc. Classes are exciting to me. They are different ways to play the same content and they always add so much to the game.
    Thank you! Making the Bard feel cool and desirable was one of my biggest objectives. I wanted something that could stand toe-to-toe with Nercros, DKs, and Dark Rangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    My own comments:
    1. The art, don't know if it is OPs original art or not, does not say WoW to me. Especially anime girls with stockings remind me more of some Asian stuff
    The art is absolutely NOT original. I too am very mindful that I don't include things that are too Asian-mmo centric. I feel the images used met that goal.
    3. The selection of roles: Healer, melee and ranged. There is already far to many melee classes and specs compared to raid spots or spots in dungeons. Another melee spec is not realistic/useful. The same can be said for healers where there is also a great competition for spots.
    I don't think it's realistic to say that they will never introduce more melee and healer roles within new classes. My Necromancer concept added 2 additional ranged roles.

    4. A class/spec that uses skills to buff other raid members isn't feasible in WoW. Such a spec would either do the same dps/healing as "normal" specs + make the rest of the group do more dps/healing and therefore be mandatory to stack or would be tuned so low in damage/healing that the buff it brings to the party would not make up for its bad performance. Just look at PI right now which leads to degenerate game play.
    If you notice, a lot of my buffs are given out randomly. I know what you mean by brining up PI though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corydon View Post
    Nicely done. If it comes close to the EverQuest bard class, which is the greatest of any games out there imho, then it's going to be a success. Too bad Blizz has other plans. Yes, I can see the future. Oh, btw, best regards from Chromie.
    Haha, good ol' Chromie!

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    While I personally don't like Bard Classes, this is amazing and the amount of work that went into this is impressive.
    10/10!
    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by HateTrain View Post
    A+ for effort. It's pretty impressive work.

    I don't believe that it would actually viably work as written though. They've moved completely away from "Support" classes enough that a rejiggering of all classes/trinity would be needed to get this to NOT be a weird tack on to the holy trinity. I'm not saying I'm against that, but of all of the proposed classes so far, this one is the farthest from current reality.
    I in no way intended to make this class concept a support class. I know WoW only has only 3 roles. All WoW classes are capable of some level of "support." I removed the support line from my class theme info because too many people were hung up on that word and sentence. This is a dmg/healer class.

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    nice effort,and yeah,would tottaly like to see a real support class

    the only issue i see with this is that in order for a class like this to work and be worth it,it would have to be mandatory,so it basicaly wouldnt just be a new class but a new 4th role,but limited to just ONE class,its a bit of a risky concept

    you end up either with it not being fun but people have to have it,or it being to fun or op and not having enough room for it

    the balance for this would be hard
    As I said above, this ISN'T intended to be a support-ONLY class, and you already have many classes that have some level of "mandatory" in raid settings. The Bard class would be no different, and yes, very valuable to have in a raid, much like many other classes.

  19. #39
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Stop whining again and start to reflect, please.
    You should take your own advice, and realize that the only one whining here is you. You're literally complaining that the OP took inspiration from sources outside Warcraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amunrasonther View Post
    Thank you very much, Teriz!
    You're welcome! It was a good read, and very nice to look at. Next time I want to do a class write up, I'll be in touch for some pointers.

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