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  1. #61
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    What? Oribos is the smallest hub we've ever had.
    The annoying thing about Oribos is that stuff appears to change location on the map each time I go there. That, or I just can't seem to remember where stuff is. Ever..
    Hi

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    No, I'm saying they should try harder content. Doing a +14 or getting to 1800 rating is not hard.
    Barely anyone wants to do that. Are Blizzard making content for the audience they have, the audience they wish they had, or just a small portion while ignoring the rest?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You don't, but my point is that gearing really screeches to a halt at 200 and so doing things to get a little more gear isn't an incentive. I mean, look at the gearing curve on M+... if you're 195+ there's basically nothing for you until you do more than a 10.

    What do you do when you ding 60? You finish the campaign etc but most of us also spend time gearing up from the 150 or whatever we have when we're freshly 60. And that gives is a lot to do.... random BGs, finish the campaign and get anima to upgrade that armor, run heroics or M0 etc.

    Then, at 195 or so, you're done. There's no real reason to run M4 or 5 or whatever, that "let's run X to get some gear" reason to play is gone. So, you go from "I have a lot to do in order to gear" to "OK, done. I'm bored" and that's where OP and, to an extent, I am. I'm fine sitting at 200. But it also means I've gone from having stuff to do, to not.
    +2 gives you 200 ilvl in vault. +7 gives 213 in vault. Rings necks and and trinkets and weapons can also be upgraded in +2 onwards. There isn't nothing to do for casual.players. You don't need to start doing 10s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Little history first, I have been playing WoW since vanilla, like most of you. I would consider myself a [H]ardcore casual if that makes any sense? Meaning I play almost every night, maybe for at least 30 minutes up to an hour or 90 minutes per night. So on average I say I play for an hour or so nightly, and a bit more on weekends.

    I used to be a Raider big time, years ago, back in MoP and earlier expansions, when I had the time for 4 hour runs on a weeknight, but now that's not possible. So the most I do is low M+ keys, and World Quests, Campaign quests, transmog hunting, and mount hunting, etc...

    Ok so Shadowlands, I was eagerly anticipating this expansion release, after BfA, which I thought was just ok, not terrible, but not great. And now that SL has been here for almost 3 months, I am a little disappointed, it just seems ok.

    - Got my main my Undead Unholy DK to 60 right away, and completed the campaign, and ran dungeons, etc...got him to i198 gear, and then started to get a bit bored. and honestly confused as to what to do next? I bought 2 Legendary's at the AH, but found out can only equip one, and then it wasn't for the spec or build or Covenant or whatever. And that whole thing was a little confusing. So I am sitting here, level 60, done with all 9 campaign chapters, almost i200 geared, and lost as what to do next?

    - So I started working on my alts that I also like, my Ret Paladin, Demon Hunter, Fury Warrior, BM Hunter, etc... got them to like level 55+ and working towards getting them to level 60, but it's slow going, as leveling up again is a bit of a chore, it's not hard by any means, just a bit boring going through all the same zones again.

    My plan for now, is get them all to level 60, complete all their Campaigns, and gear them up a bit, and see which ones I truly like to play, and then just settle on like 2 main characters only, one Horde, and one Alliance, and concentrate on them for this expansion run.



    I will say my fav expansion of the modern WoW era is Legion, I think Legion was the best expansion in many years, it has such great replay-ability, I still go back there to finish off stuff I didn't complete, like Class Hall quests, Artifact appearances, Class mounts, etc... Legion was so much fun, and it still is today. I'm in Legion areas or Dalaran city all the time, but can't say the same for places in BfA or WoD or MoP, I never go to those expansions anymore.

    I love Dalaran city, easy to get around, not too large. I liked that Legion was mainly one large continent, not zones separated into islands, which made it faster and easier to get around.

    And people might say I need a break from WoW, I'm burned out. No. I felt the same with WoD, just bored and not much to do, barely played, and then Legion came out, and I was glued to the game again for 2 years, playing 6 nights a week, couple hours each night, there was just so much to do in Legion for me.



    Anyways, back to Shadowlands, I know it's early, and 9.1 will be out this Spring, and hopefully spruce things up again, but it is weird that this early on in a brand new expansion I am feeling a bit bored, and even confused as to all this stuff I'm supposed to be doing like Covenant gear, and legendary's, and Anima to get, and Soulbinding ( which I have no idea what that even is? ) is that the thing sort of like the Netherland Crucible in Argus in Legion? Ok my 60 DK does have Soulbinds then. Conduits? No clue.
    This guy is a man after my own heart. Im in exact same boat. I unsubbed a few weeks into xpac bc I found it boring, confusing, and filled with time-gating. It's now the 3rd iteration on the Legion model tbh. I may resub if BC gets announced or once 9.1 is live, but I think the high sales figure for SL is a bit misleading since the actual xpac is really very meh

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by topitopi View Post
    This guy is a man after my own heart. Im in exact same boat. I unsubbed a few weeks into xpac bc I found it boring, confusing, and filled with time-gating. It's now the 3rd iteration on the Legion model tbh. I may resub if BC gets announced or once 9.1 is live, but I think the high sales figure for SL is a bit misleading since the actual xpac is really very meh
    The high sales for SL are totally misleading. First off 2020 was the year of the worldwide Pandemic, with most schools shut down and offices closed, with people sitting at home, plus public places mostly closed, so stay-at-home time was at an all time high. So of course Gaming will go up big time, to give you something more to do, while everything is closed.

    And then BfA was done, and a lot of people thought BfA was just mediocre, so WoW players were itching for a new expansion and something fresh and not BfA anymore.

    People didn't know Shadowlands would be a bland, somewhat boring expansion launch, and also confusing with all these layered and strange systems they keep piling on and adding to the game. We don't need Covenants, and Soulbinds and Legendary's and Anima. Come on guys stop with all this crap already, let's go back to MoP style of gear.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    Barely anyone wants to do that. Are Blizzard making content for the audience they have, the audience they wish they had, or just a small portion while ignoring the rest?
    That's how it should be. If you want to do the easy content you get the crappy gear.

    By your logic arena and Mythic raids/+ shouldn't exist anymore

  7. #67
    If you're not into organized content, SL is nowhere near as fun as Legion. But most people on MMO-Champ are mythic raiders and M+ champs so you're only gonna get nasty backlash here

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    The annoying thing about Oribos is that stuff appears to change location on the map each time I go there. That, or I just can't seem to remember where stuff is. Ever..
    haha glad im not the only one. Standard for me everytime I went there.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    But if you don't do content above 10s or raid, do you actually need higher gear, then? Let's remember there's a difference between needing and wanting.

    I don't see why you'd need 220+ ilvl to do 10s and world quests and whatnot.
    Forget need, what people need is a reason to continue doing something and in WoW gear is nearly the only reason offered. So why not let people continue getting better and better gear whether it be from Mythic raids or World Quests? It's not like there's a lack of pixels that prevent more gear being given out. It doesn't harm anyone nor pick their pocket. But it gives non-raiders a reason to keep playing ... so give it to them. The only reason existing to lock away all upgrades behind ever more difficult content is to preserve the fragile egos of those who do that content, and I feel it's a better trade to placate the masses than the few.

    Like Ghostcrawler said, people don't "aspire" ... they quit.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  10. #70
    just unsub and come back next patch. it's what i would do if i didn't have a raiding guild.

    wow is a great game if you are very casual or very hardcore, but not so much if you are in between.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    The high sales for SL are totally misleading. First off 2020 was the year of the worldwide Pandemic, with most schools shut down and offices closed, with people sitting at home, plus public places mostly closed, so stay-at-home time was at an all time high. So of course Gaming will go up big time, to give you something more to do, while everything is closed.

    And then BfA was done, and a lot of people thought BfA was just mediocre, so WoW players were itching for a new expansion and something fresh and not BfA anymore.

    People didn't know Shadowlands would be a bland, somewhat boring expansion launch, and also confusing with all these layered and strange systems they keep piling on and adding to the game. We don't need Covenants, and Soulbinds and Legendary's and Anima. Come on guys stop with all this crap already, let's go back to MoP style of gear.
    I recently unsubbed, spending the rest of sub time playing around in classic.

    What I dont understand is why the anima cost for buildings etc connected to each covenant have such a huuuuuge anima cost. Those buildings are just side activities, something for you to dabble with on the side. Something different and maybe fun(I dont know if they are, havent bothered farming anima).

    But nah, lets have stupid high prices on them so people dont give a shit about something they actually put worktime into only to hide it behind some shite anima grind. Luckily for most people it doesnt affect player power/progression, but that kind of makes the high prices even worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Forget need, what people need is a reason to continue doing something and in WoW gear is nearly the only reason offered. So why not let people continue getting better and better gear whether it be from Mythic raids or World Quests? It's not like there's a lack of pixels that prevent more gear being given out. It doesn't harm anyone nor pick their pocket. But it gives non-raiders a reason to keep playing ... so give it to them. The only reason existing to lock away all upgrades behind ever more difficult content is to preserve the fragile egos of those who do that content, and I feel it's a better trade to placate the masses than the few.

    Like Ghostcrawler said, people don't "aspire" ... they quit.
    They should just scrap the whole m+ system or atleast rework it. Implement something like Challenge mode(it was in MoP?) and let those who want really hard content go there. Reward them with mount, title, Tmog gear they can show off.

  12. #72
    Of the recent expansions, I say Legion is #1 the best of the releases from the past 5+ years or so. BfA I did not like at first, but in hindsight actually was pretty good. But so far and it's early but Shadowlands seems like WoD, just a filler expansion, not great. But we haven't even had patch 9.1 so it's too early to judge.

    But from all 8 expansions, I can say SL is the first expansion I've felt bored this early on

  13. #73
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    +2 gives you 200 ilvl in vault. +7 gives 213 in vault. Rings necks and and trinkets and weapons can also be upgraded in +2 onwards. There isn't nothing to do for casual.players. You don't need to start doing 10s.
    I'm not talking about the vault loot but the loot from the end of dungeon chest. Vault loot, even if it's an upgrade, is a single piece per week. Even if every single piece upgrades a different slot, it would take 2+ months to move from 197ish to something that's meaningfully higher. Meanwhile the actual content you're doing, the Mythic Plus dungeons, don't give you loot that's as high or higher than what you have on if you're in fully upgraded covenant and honor gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    And you SHOULDN'T be getting gear on par with heroic just doing WQ so not sure what the issue is.
    It's not that you dont get heroic for WQs (and don't be a tool and put words in my mouth). It's that you don't get upgrades in M+ (from the chest) until a 10 nor from N CN. So you're stuck in this weird space where it's super easy to get to 195 or so... then there are almost no rewards at all unless you do M10 or higher or H CN or higher. None of the content below that gives you any reason to do it, really. I mean, you can do some low level keys and hope for a single piece per week from the vault but... eh.

    The problem is mostly the contrast between getting from fresh 60 to about 200 and then trying to get from 200 to anything much higher.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I don't get it. It is not more or less than any expansion earlier but suddenly it is not enough? I would argue it is even more. Maybe Legion had a bit more with all the order hall quests. But they where actually quite short campaignes prolonged by the mission table.

    If you don't raid. Don't want to go above M+9. Don't play PvP....

    What the hell did you do in past expansion different then now?
    And why do you want (or are entitled to) higher loot if you don want to do higher content?
    Also a m+ gives you 216 loot... so you can got up to 216+leggo after a few weeks.
    Did I say it was different than other expansions?

    What is it with the shit reading comprehension here? You're the second person to try to pretend I said something that I never did. Read what's there. Not what's not.

    What I'd have liked is for the gear in M+ to be rewarding when it drops from the chest for keys from 2 through 9 or so. It's not. I'd have liked the Normal CN loot to be an upgrade. it's not, really (sure, it's 200 vs 197 but... eh).

    To be really clear, where they fucked up is by making it possible to upgrade covenant and honor loot to 197. What they should have done was make it upgradeable to 184 or maybe 187. That way, low keys in the 4-6 range would be dropping 194 upgrades that would feel good and the 7-10 keys would drop 200 as would normal CN and all of that content would feel worthwhile to do. As it is, I can do four mid-level keys (say an 8 or 10) and get my 216. Which might be an upgrade, or not. Woooo..... :/
    Last edited by clevin; 2021-02-10 at 12:13 AM.

  14. #74
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    Barely anyone wants to do that. Are Blizzard making content for the audience they have, the audience they wish they had, or just a small portion while ignoring the rest?
    Bingo. And we've all seen the results of the "raid or die" aka "git gud" approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Bingo. And we've all seen the results of the "raid or die" aka "git gud" approach.
    Whats the result?

  16. #76
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    So the just announced reappearance of Valor which can be used to upgrade M+ gear is, I think, a really good solution. You can hit the 200 wall but still run low to mid keys and even if the drop you get is a side grade when it drops, you have a way to upgrade it.. .by doing M+.


    I'm sure we''ll quibble over VP amounts etc but I like this. It gives people who don't want to raid H CN or beyond and aren't ready to do 15s an incentive to do some M+ that's likely more in their zone.

    So that people don't have to go find the announce...

    The framework for a system that attempts to address these goals should be present in this first PTR update, subject to ongoing tuning and refinement. Gear from Mythic Keystone Dungeons is now upgradeable, initially with a cap of item level 200, which players can raise to item level 207 by completing all eight Shadowlands dungeons at Mythic 5 or higher. This will award a new “Keystone Explorer” achievement, while the existing “Keystone Conqueror” achievement (for all +10s or higher) will increase the cap to item level 213, and then to item level 220 by completing the “Keystone Master” achievement for all +15s in time. The currency used to upgrade Mythic Keystone gear is Valor, which is earned from completing Mythic Keystone dungeons, or by doing covenant
    Last edited by clevin; 2021-02-10 at 02:07 AM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    What I dont understand is why the anima cost for buildings etc connected to each covenant have such a huuuuuge anima cost. Those buildings are just side activities, something for you to dabble with on the side. Something different and maybe fun(I dont know if they are, havent bothered farming anima).

    But nah, lets have stupid high prices on them so people dont give a shit about something they actually put worktime into only to hide it behind some shite anima grind. Luckily for most people it doesnt affect player power/progression, but that kind of makes the high prices even worse.
    My guess would be that these Covenant activities are intended for the more casual player who doesn't do raids or m+, so they stick a long anima grind on them to keep those players occupied for a significant amount of time.

    Because, honestly, if you could level up all the Covenant activities within 2 months there'd be precious little reason for a very casual player to stick around past that. It's, IMO, the casual version of defeating Mythic Denathrius You do it, you're done with the game until the next patch.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    What? Oribos is the smallest hub we've ever had.
    It's small in units of yards, but very large in units of boredom.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "I hate caps lock. I pry it off my keyboard." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  19. #79
    game is basically over once you hit 200ish ilvl and don't partake in M+/heroic raiding/rated pvp. Can move on to alts and/or get achievements at that point. Feels like Legion/BFA had more opportunities to acquire better gear as an ultra casual player.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Of the recent expansions, I say Legion is #1 the best of the releases from the past 5+ years or so. BfA I did not like at first, but in hindsight actually was pretty good. But so far and it's early but Shadowlands seems like WoD, just a filler expansion, not great. But we haven't even had patch 9.1 so it's too early to judge.

    But from all 8 expansions, I can say SL is the first expansion I've felt bored this early on
    I don't wanna raid. I don't wanna pvp. I don't wanna do dungeons. I wanna kill 8 boars and get mythic raid loot or else the expansion is boring. Yep.

    Btw.. What did you do in the first 8 weeks in Legion except for the exact same world quests over and over again to not feel bored?

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