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  1. #81
    what you are saying makes sense but at the same time it's clear that you are missing out on 80% of the end game content. if you feel bored at 200 but you don't want to get into the 'harder content' to push a bit higher, then you're purposefully limiting yourself. it's possible to play very little per week and still get around 1500-1600 arena rating (slowly). the same goes for mythic+, you can do some 5s, 6s, 7s and up.
    You can also pug heroic castle nathria for the first few bosses (that are very easy).

    If you want to really enjoy wow and NOT touch heroic raiding, any rated pvp, or any decent mythic+, then you're missing out by your own 'choice' (i understand real life commitments of course, we all grow up). of course the game will get boring if you ONLY want to commit to world quests and covenant mechanics (unlocking those things with anima or doing those weird max level quests like Trials of blablabla as kyrian in Bastion). The game just doesn't focus too much on that, or at least it's not designed to keep you entertained forever JUST by doing that content.

    Legion was good but they obviously realized how difficult it was to make a class hall campaign for each class, so they dropped that to TWO in BFA (horde/alliance war campaign) and increase it to FOUR in Shadowlands (the 4 covenants). Then again, Legion offered a lot of replayability if you actually had alts. If you didn't, you'd play just as much as you would now in Shadowlands - and looking at your current time costraints, I doubt you've played all 4 covenant campaigns, reached 200 ilvl on many classes etc. So you're probably a bit tired/bored of easy content and you don't have the time or energy to focus on completing harder content, as the game is not necessarily worth it for you anymore and you are too busy IRL to commit to it anyways.

    this is (probably) your problem and nothing else, and I understand it. It's just that it doesn't mean the expansion is bad if you are unable to play most of it.

    My own experience so far:
    I'm currently raiding mythic 6 hours per week (3 hours per raid) and doing pvp, no mythic+ at all. getting maw souls and doing the two torghast weekly runs. I love the fact that i'm not too behind just because i play 10 hours per week in total and, for example, i'm not missing out on any conquest points as they all stack up. in BFA if you didn't do dailies in nazjatar or mechagon or grinded X stuff, you wouldn't have your essences that were a MUST to do well in the game. you also had to cap your conquest every single week for the weekly chest item.
    Now you can stay offline and not worry about falling so behind. I think the expansion is great JUST for this. No stress.
    Last edited by Odrareg; 2021-02-10 at 02:25 AM.

  2. #82
    I genuinely can't believe how many people here think Shadowlands is "hard to navigate".

    I really feel like if people have difficulty with something as trivial as navigating through the open world, perhaps WoW isn't the game for you.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    The high sales for SL are totally misleading. First off 2020 was the year of the worldwide Pandemic, with most schools shut down and offices closed, with people sitting at home, plus public places mostly closed, so stay-at-home time was at an all time high. So of course Gaming will go up big time, to give you something more to do, while everything is closed.

    And then BfA was done, and a lot of people thought BfA was just mediocre, so WoW players were itching for a new expansion and something fresh and not BfA anymore.

    People didn't know Shadowlands would be a bland, somewhat boring expansion launch, and also confusing with all these layered and strange systems they keep piling on and adding to the game. We don't need Covenants, and Soulbinds and Legendary's and Anima. Come on guys stop with all this crap already, let's go back to MoP style of gear.
    The devs are getting better and better with hiding stuff. They changed tiny stuff on the beta almost last minute, when the content creators already hyped up the shit to heaven (see torghast & preach...).

    They removed flight paths from Ardenweald (Dreamsong Fenn and the one up on the North where you land from Oribos), they changed the cost of buildings, how much anima wqs give and a bunch of stuff very close to launch.

    I don't think this is a coincidence, seeing how they want that initial sale boost with launch.
    If you checked a wowhead guide after launch about any shadowlands content, it was basically a 10.000 word long wordpuke telling you nothing.
    It feels like there is a silent "war" going on with data and predictability and mathing out stuff.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-02-10 at 02:31 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    That's how it should be. If you want to do the easy content you get the crappy gear.

    By your logic arena and Mythic raids/+ shouldn't exist anymore
    Nah, I just think that shouldn't be the bulk of the game for everyone and there should be alternate paths. Those things should even definitely still get the best gear, other types of players should have something to do. Random BGs and heroics should serve SOME purpose too, and not just basically become worthless super fast.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    Nah, I just think that shouldn't be the bulk of the game for everyone and there should be alternate paths. Those things should even definitely still get the best gear, other types of players should have something to do. Random BGs and heroics should serve SOME purpose too, and not just basically become worthless super fast.
    Not even really sure why heroic dungeons exist to be honest or lfr for that matter. The campaign gear bypasses al that crap.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Little history first, I have been playing WoW since vanilla, like most of you. I would consider myself a [H]ardcore casual if that makes any sense? Meaning I play almost every night, maybe for at least 30 minutes up to an hour or 90 minutes per night. So on average I say I play for an hour or so nightly, and a bit more on weekends.

    I used to be a Raider big time, years ago, back in MoP and earlier expansions, when I had the time for 4 hour runs on a weeknight, but now that's not possible. So the most I do is low M+ keys, and World Quests, Campaign quests, transmog hunting, and mount hunting, etc...

    Ok so Shadowlands, I was eagerly anticipating this expansion release, after BfA, which I thought was just ok, not terrible, but not great. And now that SL has been here for almost 3 months, I am a little disappointed, it just seems ok.

    - Got my main my Undead Unholy DK to 60 right away, and completed the campaign, and ran dungeons, etc...got him to i198 gear, and then started to get a bit bored. and honestly confused as to what to do next? I bought 2 Legendary's at the AH, but found out can only equip one, and then it wasn't for the spec or build or Covenant or whatever. And that whole thing was a little confusing. So I am sitting here, level 60, done with all 9 campaign chapters, almost i200 geared, and lost as what to do next?

    - So I started working on my alts that I also like, my Ret Paladin, Demon Hunter, Fury Warrior, BM Hunter, etc... got them to like level 55+ and working towards getting them to level 60, but it's slow going, as leveling up again is a bit of a chore, it's not hard by any means, just a bit boring going through all the same zones again.

    My plan for now, is get them all to level 60, complete all their Campaigns, and gear them up a bit, and see which ones I truly like to play, and then just settle on like 2 main characters only, one Horde, and one Alliance, and concentrate on them for this expansion run.



    I will say my fav expansion of the modern WoW era is Legion, I think Legion was the best expansion in many years, it has such great replay-ability, I still go back there to finish off stuff I didn't complete, like Class Hall quests, Artifact appearances, Class mounts, etc... Legion was so much fun, and it still is today. I'm in Legion areas or Dalaran city all the time, but can't say the same for places in BfA or WoD or MoP, I never go to those expansions anymore.

    I love Dalaran city, easy to get around, not too large. I liked that Legion was mainly one large continent, not zones separated into islands, which made it faster and easier to get around.

    And people might say I need a break from WoW, I'm burned out. No. I felt the same with WoD, just bored and not much to do, barely played, and then Legion came out, and I was glued to the game again for 2 years, playing 6 nights a week, couple hours each night, there was just so much to do in Legion for me.



    Anyways, back to Shadowlands, I know it's early, and 9.1 will be out this Spring, and hopefully spruce things up again, but it is weird that this early on in a brand new expansion I am feeling a bit bored, and even confused as to all this stuff I'm supposed to be doing like Covenant gear, and legendary's, and Anima to get, and Soulbinding ( which I have no idea what that even is? ) is that the thing sort of like the Netherland Crucible in Argus in Legion? Ok my 60 DK does have Soulbinds then. Conduits? No clue.
    It won't help i'm sure, but for what it's worth i've also been playing since vanilla. I beta Tested WoW. I still have the exact same rogue, of course I didn't main him the entire game. For some reason once Legion hit I no longer was able to play the same class again and again. For what 9-10 years I was able to play rogue nothing else, and yet for some reason Legion changed that I don't know why. I had to keep playing a new class to remain interested and keep wow fun. This lasted through Legion and BFA and then Shadowlands got announced, I got one of the first beta invites. You know what?
    I didn't even install it.
    For the first time since WoW existed, I had 0 motivation or interest to play and guess what, THAT'S OKAY! It's okay to lose interest and not find wow fun anymore. To be honest i've been having a blast, I finally played and beat RDR2, GTA V, Dark Souls and even picked up SWTOR. I've been having more fun not playing WoW.

    So maybe, if you're finding wow so boring this expansion and so un-fun maybe it's time to take a break, a real break. Come back next expansion. Shadowlands doesn't appeal to me at all, but the next one might like you said with WOD. A break can do you good when you've been doing something for 16 years

  7. #87
    I'm really hoping that we get a lot more zones next expansion.... I'd love to see like 8 leveling zones, 2+ max level zones, maybe a "sandbox" zone and some kind of open war pvp zone....

  8. #88
    There are contents, they put in labor of supposedly love on many things. But many of them stays in the corner of your eyes for like 1 second. Or not at all.

    In the dark age of WOW, in which evil rules the game. People are PREVENTED from getting their BIS legendary in most disrespectful and humiliating ways, people struggles and they cry and they suffer, they have no choice like a peasant to actually use the shitty legendary they were rudely given. They have to Learn rotation, read guides, try to make the best out of what they have, go to discord, say something like I don't have dream catching or whatever, but I have this bracer what do I do with it! The horror. People still couldn't recover from it to this day.

    Now the nightmare is over, balance of all things, I have it now. Are you telling me to waste my time trying other lesser items?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Whats the result?
    Cata and WoD, which are blissfully forgotten by the bunch of Blizz sh... I mean fans
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Cata and WoD, which are blissfully forgotten by the bunch of Blizz sh... I mean fans
    i really liked cata - i liked it while it was current, and i remember it fondly now. Results may vary, ofc.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    - The separated zones, and how far apart they and long travel time to get to them. To go from one new zone to the next, why do we have to fly to Orb city and then go to the other zone, it takes forever, and gets old quick. I much prefer one giant continent with all new zones connected together, and no load screens flying from one zone to the other.

    - No flight whistle, ugh, come on Blizzard.
    I am in complete agreement of how traveling turned out this expansion. It is very drawn out and it feels intentional. I don't understand how it can take that long to travel in between zones. (Compared to large old zones In Kalimdor. Which surprisingly I felt took even less time and I don't see how that would make sense. As those maps are larger.) The removal of Flight Whistle pretty much confirms the suspicions of drawing out travel in the game.

    I would not like to see having load screens from flying to the next zone to other in future expansions. Connecting them together as you mentioned might help counter that.

    Another thing I would not like being repeated in future expansions is being tied do heavily to the story for progression ingame. I like to pick my own zone to level in. I remember reading somewhere that they felt like they didn't get to start truly experiencing the game until they finished the story which in some cases exceeded past level 60. That's not a good thing. Which would eventually become discouraging for some people to do the whole experience all over again. Why there was a cry out of this at the beginning of launch. Speaking of not letting people being able to experience the game....

    Sanctum reservoirs.. I feel like this was such an injustice to people that put all that work into that content. (Ember Court, Garden etc) I feel like they shouldn't been gated behind Anima at all. They expect us to grind way too much anima to level it up to it's full potential and delve into that content. This is a even bigger problem with the "anima drought." How many people will be in the boat of thinking this is asking way too much and I guess I will wait to experience that content. Maybe potentially not even come back at all. Blizzard use to curb this in different ways, with the beloved timegating the community disliked immensely. I honestly think it might've been the better route as I said players are too discouraged and now will potentially never experience that content. (Which might've not been that much, but something to keep players interested and subscribed.)

    I'm not down with the Conduits. I dislike borrowed power. (A lot of others do too. It was the biggest complaint of BFA.) Another way to discourage the community to participate in high end content. People been saying it for years.. raiding has been going down for years.. it's just one of the glaring issues that never gets addressed. (For raid participation) They want to give players a more custom experience? That makes them feel unique and tinker around with their setup? Huge elaborate talent tree. (Sphere grid FF10 style even. That huge.) Since they want to make this a driving force in the game for several expansions now. As an elaborate grid like that could potentially not even discourage players because they can go look it up. Instead of grinding out currency that will become irrelevant next expansion. Me thinks it might not just be about the gameplay..

    "Well your cutting out all the time metrics and grind." People don't mind grinding the right things. I did not complain about Covenant rewards for Anima at all. Even with an Anima drought. Stygia I have not seen much use for and have already asked for more enticing rewards several times already... only one currency is being offered currently in Torghast. From my understanding it's only for crafting legendaries at this time.

    I feel like Torghast would've been warmly received if each floor didn't have multiple levels but there is no going back from that. People would've felt like they are actually progressing and having fun compared to.. am I there yet? I would've went with a high number of floors instead of (what feels like) a tedious unrewarding grind. Which I am not entirely sure if that was the original plan or not.

    No pet battle dungeons, or archeology. Those are leisure activities I would enjoy. I'm not sure how much it appeals to the masses, but it would've gave them something to do and stay subscribed.

    Something I was disappointed in this expansion we had no big activity for the masses to play together. Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran, Warfronts. I most definitely want something like that implemented. To remind me I am playing an MMO.

    There is probably more I could say... I feel like it's enough for now. Just some of the things I am in disagreement with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    The high sales for SL are totally misleading.
    There is nothing to mislead here. If this expansion sold better at launch than BFA they would've gloated this fact. They didn't. Read between the lines. BFA did better than Shadowlands at launch during a pandemic.
    Last edited by Kixxenn; 2021-02-10 at 05:21 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Not even really sure why heroic dungeons exist to be honest or lfr for that matter. The campaign gear bypasses al that crap.
    Yep, exactly this. They've truly made heroics and LFR into "tourist" mode. Do it once then unsub because it's pointless unless you intrinsically enjoy the content without reward.

    I've started playing an MMO recently that allows me to eventually, over great time and effort, possess the absolute best equipment available in the game. All while playing solo or in automated groups on the easiest difficulty. Higher difficulty is pretty much solely for the enjoyment of it, not because it's more extrinsically rewarding. So I'm going to get to enjoy ALL of that game, rather than the afterthought Blizzard devs lay on the table for me.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    The annoying thing about Oribos is that stuff appears to change location on the map each time I go there. That, or I just can't seem to remember where stuff is. Ever..
    The stuff doesn't move, but I agree. Especially in regards to the upper layer with the flight paths, but that's because I - apparently - always take a different portal up there.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    My guess would be that these Covenant activities are intended for the more casual player who doesn't do raids or m+, so they stick a long anima grind on them to keep those players occupied for a significant amount of time.

    Because, honestly, if you could level up all the Covenant activities within 2 months there'd be precious little reason for a very casual player to stick around past that. It's, IMO, the casual version of defeating Mythic Denathrius You do it, you're done with the game until the next patch.
    Perhaps, but thats a really bade replacement for those that dont push raiding. I mean, these buildings are supposed to be used and played with. It makes more sene that the activity within these buildings was something that took time, not getting them or upgrading them.

    Imagine having to grind some form of curreny just to be able to enter raids. Sure theres ilevel, but thats a more fun activity to chase than anima.

    I have no idea if these buildings and features are fun and interesting. They cost to much and I cant be bothered farming for them. instead of actually giving the players something to dabble with, we are left out and gotta farm anima "just because".

    Each building should be something to spend alot of time on. Opening them up should not be.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    Yep, exactly this. They've truly made heroics and LFR into "tourist" mode. Do it once then unsub because it's pointless unless you intrinsically enjoy the content without reward.

    I've started playing an MMO recently that allows me to eventually, over great time and effort, possess the absolute best equipment available in the game. All while playing solo or in automated groups on the easiest difficulty. Higher difficulty is pretty much solely for the enjoyment of it, not because it's more extrinsically rewarding. So I'm going to get to enjoy ALL of that game, rather than the afterthought Blizzard devs lay on the table for me.
    What I can gather is they basically wanted to make sure content was as "optional" as possible and they did this buy essentially just gutting heroic dungeon and lfr loot. As a raider you would basically never need to touch any of these because normal raids will give you 200 and then heroic well above. It really is basically wod all over again.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #96
    The only two things that really annoys me about Shadowlands is the travel time between continents, that's really ridiculous, and the terrain design that makes it a PITA to navigate in the open world.

    So I'm only doing instanced SL content most of the time and old world achievement and mount hunting until flying is hopefully introduced. But I have a bad feeling about this to be honest. My gut tells me they will come up with some no fly shit again. I do hope I am wrong, though.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Not even really sure why heroic dungeons exist to be honest or lfr for that matter. The campaign gear bypasses al that crap.
    Exactly. Most of the game is too damned pointless.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    The only thing that enrages me about Shadowlands are the hoops and bullshit you have to pull in order to get certain treasures. A ton of treasures have idiotic strings attached and every time I see something interesting I just give up because the reward will either suck or I will not be able to access it due to convenants.

    A glaring and infuriating example is Bastion. I always see the area full of treasures and I can never get them. The chest in the area where you fly up the floating flowers (BS world quest too) contains a cool transmo, so I went there. Requires Proof of Wisdom. Okay, go online to see what the hell that is. I solve the riddle and I do not get the transmo because I am not kyrian. screw off with that bull and these stupid minigames.

    The Sunrunner rare can smash in a wall for all I care too. I really don't like Bastion at all tbf.

    I really don't know why but I cannot stand this kind of things in WoW. Maybe because I come from the old times when finding a chest was its own reward without having to gather the Proof of my Ass from Thekonominikos, Steward of the Great Whatever across the map. Every random encounter is now a ridiculous chore and I just run past them all, unless I'm in my covenant zone, where I am sure I can at least get something cool if I try.
    ZOMG YES THIS!

    Almost every item on my map (I have the mods that show the things - allll the things) requires special hoops to jump through, special crap to get, requires a GROUP of people getting special thing.

    Every blip I get close to I get excited about getting some treasure or whatever- only to see a list of all the crap you need to do to unlock the treasure.

    In every past expansion you had a few of these "special tasks to get special reward" things and that was fun and fine but the rest of the little treasures/caches/rare spawns were self-contained and completed as soon as you found them. But now that percentage has flipped, big time - now its mostly these stupid hoops to jump through and only rarely do you find a little chest or treasure that doesn't require the hoops. Bastion was just a joy destroyer - first zone I was in, map covered in all these little spawns and treasures to find; and almost everyone attached to a pre-requisite list. :/

    If this is the design future of the game - gonna make this an easy game to drop before next expansion for me. I've played since Vanilla and enjoyed the content - whether I was raiding every weekend or not. I was never hardcore, I never did "everything" so I never expected to be entertained 24/7, but I've also never had so many rewards locked behind more and more EXTRA things to do.

    Faction Pets - now all locked behind pet tokens in addition to grinding faction. I don't give a fart for pet battles, so now I can't have the faction pets even after hitting exalted. This started last expansion and has only continued.

    Faction/Covenant Mounts - more and more locked behind 30/40/50+K gold ON TOP of faction grinding. I've played since vanilla but I've not 'played' the AH in 3 expansions. I'm a casual player and so at the end of 15+ years I have exactly 200K TOTAL to my name. Its bullcrap that any mount with a faction unlock cost 40K+ to get as well. Yes, I'm aware there are also free mounts - I'm just talking about the other mounts. Not everyone in the game is rich as crap. Over the course of all of BFA I earned about 50K gold - the cost of a single mount.

    And now - the little fun treasures are all locked behind minigames. I know why. "Get people to play more." Yea well, its the opposite for me. I don't want to have to go coordinate 8 other steps and 3 other players to ring a gong and align the moon in Aquarius in order to fight a 'rare spawn.' I doubt I'm alone.

    I've had a 6 month sub for 3+ years now - and this is the first time I'm not going to renew it. The mechanics they are adding in to "keep people online" are getting more and more frustrating and just not fun.

    Just sucks. I've barely made it to 60 and doing campaigns and just looking at all this CONFUSING (agree with OP) loot-lines and keeping straight all the little mini-game mechanics and multiple currencies to upgrade and...and... ugg. I feel less and less like even starting. I hate grinding in order to join another grind. So if that's what Blizz wants for WoW, then I'm ready to move on.
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  19. #99
    I'm just sick of the crazy systems they keep adding each expansion since Legion. Did Ion the game lead designer take control of WoW starting with Legion?

    All of this garbage stuff started in legion, and was in BfA, and now Shadowlands;

    Artifacts
    AP
    Netherlight Crucible
    Azerite
    Necklace
    Essences
    Corruption
    Covenant
    Soulbinds
    Legendary's
    Anima
    Soul Ash

    All of the above stuff should never be in WoW. Go back to the MoP way of gear, you run Dungeons and Raid for gear, you get badges or tokens based on the different difficultly which you purchase gear.

    And stop changing classes every freaking expansion. They don't always need a revised rotation or a few different spells, etc...if a class plays great in Legion, like Arms Warrior in patch 7.3 was AMAZING, and then shit in BfA, why even make the change to the class? How about not touching classes whatsoever between expansions.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Cata and WoD, which are blissfully forgotten by the bunch of Blizz sh... I mean fans
    Cata and Wotlk had an extremely similiar reward structure.
    Sole difference being that Cata was initially a lot more difficult.

    It's really funny that you have one group of people that hail Wotlk as the "peak of WoW", yet at the same time you have people that constantly talk about how "Raid or die" was terrible, yet those never clash, despite Wotlk being the genesis of that philosophy, where Blizzard pushed everyone towards raiding.

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